Twice now!

[Sean Fogarty]

For the second time I have found a moisture spot in a ceiling and checked it with my meter. Today's was 25%..Once I go for the camera it can't be found.. I have tried every possible way to manipulate the picture, change the settings, etc and Still no luck. Why Why Why!!!!!!!!!!

Any suggestions. I will send you the picture and see what you can find if you like. (if you have fluke software that is)

[Michael Larson]

Was the adjacent area less than 25% and how much?

[John E. Mullarkey]

How much Delta T did you have from the inside of the room to the area above the ceiling? I'm guessing you tried different pallettes as well?

[Jamie R. Wilks]

If you found the moisture spot/stain on the ceiling and your moisture meter says 25%, what do you need the IR camera for?
These cameras are not a magic wand or all seeing instrument; and they can not replace your training, experience or good judgment.
Even if an IR camera picks up a temperature differential, you still need to determine why there is a temperature difference. It could be moisture, missing insulation, camera error, different materials or finishes, different camera angle, etc...

[Christopher Currins]

Originally Posted by jwilks

If you found the moisture spot/stain on the ceiling and your moisture meter says 25%, what do you need the IR camera for?
.

[Larry J. Michael]

You have to admit though, its kinda messed up that a $200 meter can tell you moisture is there, but a $4,000 camera can't.

[Wayne B. Wilson]

It is called a learning curve and using the camera . I would assume he seen the spot and want to use the camera for experience .
I think the delta T is the answer .
Tell us more of the application Sean . That's what i thought this board was about wanting to learn

[Michael Larson]

Let's see the IR photos.

A fan blowing across the suspect area may make it more visible as air moving across the moist area will cool faster than the surrounding area.

[Sean Fogarty]

Originally Posted by jmullarkey

How much Delta T did you have from the inside of the room to the area above the ceiling? I'm guessing you tried different pallettes as well?

Yes I tried several things.
The outside was 55 and shaded and the inside was 70 deg... SHould have been plenty of spread, but maybe the sun warmed the area up enough not to find it.

Just another frustration while trying to learn.

[Sean Fogarty]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Was the adjacent area less than 25% and how much?

Pretty low everywhere else, so I suspect it was not a fresh leak, but several days old. About the size of a basketball.

[Sean Fogarty]

Originally Posted by jwilks

If you found the moisture spot/stain on the ceiling and your moisture meter says 25%, what do you need the IR camera for?
These cameras are not a magic wand or all seeing instrument; and they can not replace your training, experience or good judgment.
Even if an IR camera picks up a temperature differential, you still need to determine why there is a temperature difference. It could be moisture, missing insulation, camera error, different materials or finishes, different camera angle, etc...

Thats a piss poor answer! I personally would like to try and learn how to use my camera for more than pointing it at walls, and I was hopeing to get answers from those who would understand the concept.

[Brandon Clark]

Originally Posted by sfogarty

Thats a piss poor answer! I personally would like to try and learn how to use my camera for more than pointing it at walls, and I was hopeing to get answers from those who would understand the concept.

Hey Sean,

I've found that it can often be hard to get someone to give you a good answer to a question on this Thermal Imaging section.

The one thing that I do which sometimes helps is before starting an inspection turn the heater up a good bit or actually put a space heater in an area you suspect a problem. If you can change the surface temp of the walls by a few degrees you can usually identify more issues.

You may also want to lower the span between the temperatures your camera is detecting to about 15 degrees. Try detecting from 55 to 70 degrees.

Send me the image if you will. I have the FLUKE software and I'd like to give it a shot.

Send the image to brandon@pwrck.com

[Jamie R. Wilks]

Sean
Sorry about the “piss poor answer”, but it wasn’t actually an answer, just an observation.
You already identified the problem, the IR camera was not necessary.
I’ve used IR cameras for more than 10 years, not in the inspection business but in the fire service. I choose not to use or include an IR camera in a home inspection. If some inspectors wish to use the camera, that’s fine. I just hope they realize an IR camera is no different than a screw driver, level or flash light; it’s just a tool.
IR cameras actually have only one function, to give an apparent temperature differential of an object or surface (or more accurately, the apparent infrared energy being emitted, transmitted or reflected off an object or surface). Once the image is produced, it’s left up to the operator/inspector to interpret what is being seen.
While these cameras can be useful, most people I’ve talked to (both in the inspection business and the fire service) do not understand how the cameras operate and the limitations of the cameras. The two biggest problems I have with the use of IR cameras: one, relying on the camera instead of your education, training and experience; two, not verifying or backing up the results from an IR scan.
I understand you’re trying to determine why your camera did not detect or locate the moisture stain, but I think it’s obvious that no single tool is suited for every situation.

[Jeffrey Moore]

Sean,
The easiest answer to give you is- the area in question is the same temperature as the surrounding material.

Forget having a delta T between inside and out for this case. The surface temperature of the wet area is the same as the other areas.

If you truely wanted to get a TI of the wet area all you would have had to do is provide the means to create the difference ie a fan. I carry one in my truck along with a space heater.

What camera are you using and could you post the image? I can't manipulate the image (have FLIR not Fluke) but would be interested in seeing it. Change pallettes, narrow span.

[Brandon Clark]

Hey Sean,

You just have a low Delta-T and low amount of moisture.

If you can get me some better shots I can get you some better results. These are about as good as I can do with just one image.

Hope these help at all.