We used the IR camera on location in this crawlspace inspection video course.

[mreusch]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Is learning how to tie a bowtie while learning how to inspect a sump pump...more knowledge, as Nick says....or higher knowledge...as John says. They are not the same thing. I would go along with Nick's description.

My point is that, at a minimum, a first day home inspector in his first crawlspace (for pay, in which he is totally responsible for his report) should be able to identify and describe the conditions of everything found in the crawlspace he inspects. This is what the SOP requires.

There is no "higher level", "next step" or "advanced" manner of doing this.

There are "additional" things you can do while you are in the crawlspace....such as measure radon, look for WDO, test for and identify mold, etc.....but these are all seperate and additional (not "advanced") services.

Are there "advanced" courses? Sure. Identifying and describing foundation cracks and trust splits is a basic HI skill. Learning to what extent they can be related, the various causes, the variances in severity --- this is "higher" knowledge that would come from an "advanced" course.

So...when I saw what was called an "advanced" course on crawlspaces but found nothing there to "advance" one's knowledge to a "higher level" of crawlspaces...I asked my question.

I was under the impression that Radon measurement was to be done in the lowest possible living area of a home. If I am wrong please accept my apologies for that but I must ask is a crawl space the lowest possible living area and if it is shouldn't it be called a basement??????????

[mreusch]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Ummm...

Radon does NOT get measured in a crawlspace. It gets measured in the lowest LIVING or LIVABLE area of a structure.

A crawlspace fits into neither category.

Ummm... volt meters?

Sorry Joe never got to the bottom of the page before I replied. Didn't see you reply.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by mreusch

I was under the impression that Radon measurement was to be done in the lowest possible living area of a home. If I am wrong please accept my apologies for that but I must ask is a crawl space the lowest possible living area and if it is shouldn't it be called a basement??????????

A crawl space would not be considered as a "living area" within a home for a variety of IRC definable reasons. As you and Joe have pointed out, radon would probably not be an issue since it is not inside the home.

[Nick Gromicko]

The course does NOT depict anyone performing a radon measurement in a crawlspace. Me thinks Joe didn't actually take the course.

Anyway, radon entry points (unsealed main DWV line penetrations in the crawl space wall) and radon mitigation systems are both found in crawlspaces. Holes in the membrane (thick mil plastic sheeting/visqueen) of a crawlspace sub membrane depressurization system can only be found from inside the crawlspace. Often the liquid pressure gauge (showing that the radon fan is working) of a radon system is only visible from the crawlspace. Crawlspace ventillation, or rather lack or it, is also a contributor to radon problems... many homeowners close off their cross-ventillation crawl space vents in the winter. Unsealed cold air return ductwork also reduces crawlspace pressure and thus not only increases radon levels in the crawlspace through increasing negative pressure but also causes that radon to be carried to the living sections of the home via the furnace/ac system.

Take a peek at those seller disclosure forms folks. They often reveal the latest radon test results and/or if a mitigation system was installed. Where a home has a radon problem and a dirt crawlspace, most of the time, the crawlspace will be the main cause of the radon problem.

[Joe Farsetta]

Holes in the membrane (thick mil plastic sheeting/visqueen) of a crawlspace sub membrane depressurization system can only be found from inside the crawlspace.

Presuming there is a plastic vaqpor barrier installed, unless sealed at all edges, this solution is generally not an acceptable measure where depressurization is required. Concrete rat slabs are also somewhat querstionable, as they are only 2" thick and prone to cracking, but are far superior in crawlspaces than plastic membranes. Sealing cracks, openings, and gaps is an absolute must-have. An EPA mitigator will warn the client that a plain clear or black plastic vapor barrier will likely NOT result in the measurements desired.

Radon mitigation in crawlspaces is possible, if the barrier is hermetically sealed. I would not recommend entering a crawlspace where such a membrane is installed, as damage or defect could result.

Some photos here... http://www.radon-mitigation.org/rhmmcrawl.htm

Often the liquid pressure gauge (showing that the radon fan is working) of a radon system is only visible from the crawlspace.

Depending on the system, and where the suction tube is installed, this may or may not be perfectly accurate. It depends on if the components in the crawlspace are stand-alone or part of another system

[Nick Gromicko]

Nick writes

membrane (thick mil plastic sheeting/visqueen) of a crawlspace sub membrane depressurization system

Joe writes

this solution is generally not an acceptable measure where depressurization is required.

Why wouldn't such a system be acceptable? It's been used everywhere for many years with great success. Who doesn't "accept" a crawlspace sub membrane depressurization system? How is it "not an acceptable measure" ?

[Nick Gromicko]

Nick writes

Often the liquid pressure gauge (showing that the radon fan is working) of a radon system is only visible from the crawlspace.

Joe writes

this may or may not be perfectly accurate.

I don't see how my statement may not be perfectly accurate. Explain. Are you saying that the liquid guage is always visible from outside the crawlspace and not often only visible from the crawlspace?

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by jbushart

An "advanced" course on something a home inspector must know on his very first inspection? Please explain.

James, please take the crawlspace course. Follow this link, to take the course, which includes the course material, exam, and certificate.

Tell me what you think about the course.
Then post your comments on this thread.

As soon as you take the course, I'll send a check in the mail to you. Take it for free. Just give your honest opinion. I think that it's not possible to make an informed judgement without actually taking the course.

Okay, bud?

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by jbushart

...A home inspector, on his first inspection, must be able to inspect in accordance with the SOP...completely.

Some would say "substantially"

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by rmaday

Some would say "substantially"

Ahh.... the SOP is quite short on what an inspector is required to do inside a crawlspace (crawlspace in particular.)

That's one reason why we made the video. We take the requirements of the SOP, and apply them in two real, actual inspections. One crawlspace is clean and neat, but the other has so much thrown at us, the SOP is just a faded memory.

Watch how a CMI handles major challenges in a crawlspace. How do you compare with him? How would you inspect the major defects? I bet $20 that most inspectors wouldn't even enter the spaces that we were shooting. Ask yourself about what narratives would you write for the restrictions and the defects that were there? Put yourself in the inspector's shoes.

The downloadable course material includes narratives written by Kenton Shepard. They are written for crawlspaces. The course material alone is worth the price.

[Peter C. Russell]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

Ahh.... the SOP is quite short on what an inspector is required to do inside a crawlspace (crawlspace in particular.)

That's one reason why we made the video. We take the requirements of the SOP, and apply them in two real, actual inspections. One crawlspace is clean and neat, but the other has so much thrown at us, the SOP is just a faded memory.

Watch how a CMI handles major challenges in a crawlspace. How do you compare with him? How would you inspect the major defects? I bet $20 that most inspectors wouldn't even enter the spaces that we were shooting. Ask yourself about what narratives would you write for the restrictions and the defects that were there? Put yourself in the inspector's shoes.

The downloadable course material includes narratives written by Kenton Shepard. They are written for crawlspaces. The course material alone is worth the price.

Ben, do the underbellies of mobile homes count? that's about the worst crawlspace I've ever been in,

[bdoles2]

Originally Posted by prussell

Ben, do the underbellies of mobile homes count? that's about the worst crawlspace I've ever been in,

I really hate crawlspaces - I didn't make it very far in this one on Monday, just way too unsafe.

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by prussell

Ben, do the underbellies of mobile homes count? that's about the worst crawlspace I've ever been in,

Inspecting a mobile home is like being in a different world. Isn't it. It sucks getting underneath them. The same inspection restrictions that we go over in the video can apply to mobile homes. The floor structures are always insulated with a vapor barrier (the ones in good conditions that is).

[Ben J. Gromicko]

Originally Posted by bdoles2

I really hate crawlspaces - I didn't make it very far in this one on Monday, just way too unsafe.

Attachment 22537

Aaahh man. I don't know. I probably would have been really tempted to check out those buckets for my client.

[Peter C. Russell]

Originally Posted by bdoles2

I really hate crawlspaces - I didn't make it very far in this one on Monday, just way too unsafe.

Attachment 22537

Brian, the only thing missing from that picture is the skunk sound asleep as you crawl under there!!!