We used the IR camera on location in this crawlspace inspection video course.

[bdoles2]

Originally Posted by bgromicko

Aaahh man. I don't know. I probably would have been really tempted to check out those buckets for my client.

That's usually my problem, I'm a very curious person and really wanted to get my way back there. But with the wiring the way it was, and the fact I found a huge bees nest just above the entry - I decided not to.

"Curiousity killed the cat"

[bdoles2]

Originally Posted by prussell

Brian, the only thing missing from that picture is the skunk sound asleep as you crawl under there!!!

No doubt...That's another sign of me not entering a crawlspace - large chunks of fur throughout the crawlspace. I learned that the hard way.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by bdoles2

That's usually my problem, I'm a very curious person and really wanted to get my way back there. But with the wiring the way it was, and the fact I found a huge bees nest just above the entry - I decided not to.

"Curiousity killed the cat"

Good call, Brian.

[James H. Bushart]

I watched the video. Thank you for the free coupon, Nick.

First, I want to say that I was glad to see that there was no one speaking from a wet 24" crawlspace. While the advertising for the video would lead one to believe otherwise, there appeared to be no "wet and muddy" areas in any of the shots. Though is was almost inaudible and Kenton was looking away from the camera as he said it, he actually stated that an inspector would not want to enter a wet crawlspace.

So, as I stated earlier....it is not the video, but the producer of the video in his posts that is recklessly portraying that the SOP should or will "fade from memory" as one enters the wet crawlspaces that he bets $20 that most home inspectors would fear to enter. These irresponsible posts do a disservice to and certainly detract from Kenton's efforts.

I was waiting and never found what makes this particular video "advanced".

I noted Mike Larson and a few others won the chance for a free view and perhaps he/they found it to be more than just a basic "how to" on crawlspaces. I didn't.

There were a few points in the video that I would disagree with; particularly, Kenton's decision not to report the return air plenum - fashioned from covering the joists with sheet metal with measurable openings - as a defect, especially considering the moisture, the indication of possible mold growth, and pooling of water that was evident in the immediate area.

I also noted the use of unlike metals used to hang the copper service lines in the second crawlspace that were not mentioned.

Still....as a refresher or for someone who has never been in a crawlspace before, this video is a good primer.

Those are my comments. Thanks for letting me share them.

[Michael Larson]

I viewed it this evening as well.

It was decent but I don't see what was "advanced" about it.

There some concerns I saw that where not commented about.

The drain line being "supported" by a hole strap that was not tight is one.

I have a few other things but did feel it was good presentation for Inspecting a crawl space or any open under structure such as an unfinished basement.

Kenton did a good job explaining the need for PPE but did not take his own advice in the second crawl space even though he pointed out the the presence of probable mold and the smell of leaking waste plumbing.

Maybe the IR scan and moisture meter make it "advanced"

And thanks again for the chance to view it.

JMHO

[Joe Farsetta]

Nick,

In response to your two posts.

Sub-membrane depressurization may or may not come into play. Here's why:

Often, a rat slab is present in the crawlspace, not a plastic membrane. Where conventional plastic is installed, it will not suffice; whether black or clear.

Where membrane IS installed, it is sealed at all edges and at penetration points. It is NOT made to be walked on or crawled on.

Additionally, even though the crawl may have a depressurization system installed, if the crawl is off a larger basement (as many are) the piping may be extended from a main system, and may not have its own suction gauge.

So, no, your statement may not be comletely accurate.

These are my points.

[William J. Decker]

Look. Bottom line.

1) Some houses have crawlspaces.

2) Some crawlspaces are "Funky".

3) Our clients don't know Jack about the safety hazard in crawlspaces (rats, racoons, leaking sewrage, leaky pipes, electrical hazards, the list goes on and on.

4) Our clients pay us to check out the possible defects in the crawls. We are the "professionals" (or so some say ), but it seems to me (and just my opinion) that some do all they can to keep from entering a crawl. If we dn't do it, who will. How do you defer a crawlspace inspection? Who else would be crazy enough, or enough of a "generalist" to do so. Just think, awhile, on all the possible "experts" the client would have to hire:

• Structural Engineer or licensed and insured foundation contractor.
• Plumber
• HVAC Tech
• Carpenter
• General Contractor
• Geologist
• Crazy person who is just trying to make a video and advance the HI industry and teach other HIs a thing or three and didn't mind getting his pants dirty.

The first 6 are exoensive, but the last is priceless .

I, almost every time, do so. I try (and, usually suceed) to get into the crawl. I wear knee pads, gloves, have a "miner's lamp" on my head and try to inspect the entire perimeter of the crawl. If I can't get in (< 18" clearance or an obvious hazard) I don't go in.

Nuff said.

But, I always try.

Hope this helps;

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

I started the course last night and could not finish it [late], but it looked great for the first 15 minutes. I will finish the course tonight and update everyone!

[Michael Larson]

Mario, that coupon was only for 24 hours. It tells you on the page how long you have finish it.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Mario, that coupon was only for 24 hours. It tells you on the page how long you have finish it.

Thanks for the heads up Michael, I managed to finish watching it this evening.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Kenton, Ben,

Amazing video guys!!!
It must have been very difficult filming in a crawl space hence the issues with sound, but apart from that you guys a did a superb job of identifying normal crawl space defects.
I won this as a door prize but would have gladly paid double the cost to watch this amazing video!

BTW Can you guys do a show to educate builders on the many reason's not to have a crawl space?

[Joe Farsetta]

Will,

There will certainly be circumstances where crawlspace entry is not advised. I do enter crawlspaces, but they must meet certain criteria for me to do so.

First off, there needs to be sufficient clearance for me to extracate myself in a hurry. 36" most of the time.

Second, is there is a dirt floor, I am particularly picky. The crawlspace would need to be relatively clean (unobstructed) and relatively dry. Electrical cables would need to be generally well supported and visible before entering the space. LArge quantities of spider webs or live insects (particularly spiders) would prohibit entry. A clear view of DWV lies is also a must for me. If they are there, I pay particular attention to their condition prior to entry. Openings to the exterior are also viewed if possible. Entry to the crawl from the exterior can be particularly dangerous if vermin or snakes were to gain access. Snake bites ,or any bite from a rabid cornered animal will quickly damper an inspection. Belly shots are no picnic.

Third, if there is ANY signs of water on the crawlspace floor, I DO NOT ENTER THE SPACE.

Confined space entry is a real concern. Above all, the inspector needs to ensure personal safety at all times.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Will,

There will certainly be circumstances where crawlspace entry is not advised. I do enter crawlspaces, but they must meet certain criteria for me to do so.

First off, there needs to be sufficient clearance for me to extracate myself in a hurry. 36" most of the time.

Second, is there is a dirt floor, I am particularly picky. The crawlspace would need to be relatively clean (unobstructed) and relatively dry. Electrical cables would need to be generally well supported and visible before entering the space. LArge quantities of spider webs or live insects (particularly spiders) would prohibit entry. A clear view of DWV lies is also a must for me. If they are there, I pay particular attention to their condition prior to entry. Openings to the exterior are also viewed if possible. Entry to the crawl from the exterior can be particularly dangerous if vermin or snakes were to gain access. Snake bites ,or any bite from a rabid cornered animal will quickly damper an inspection. Belly shots are no picnic.

Third, if there is ANY signs of water on the crawlspace floor, I DO NOT ENTER THE SPACE.

Confined space entry is a real concern. Above all, the inspector needs to ensure personal safety at all times.

I completely understand, and agree with, all of your concerns. Maybe it is a "different area" kind of thing.

Very little in the way of venomous snakes around here and IR is grea for finding critters before they find you. I WIL NOT go into a crawl with a Racoon, but mice and rats are OK (they just run away).

I have a big pair of rubber wader boots for wet crawls. Around here, there are a lot of wet crawls, but they are mainly just water (although, it is occasionaly sewerage).

Besides, I tell my clients that I wear the orange shirt so that they can find my body easily .

[Dan Bowers, CMI]

I had 2 crawlspace inspections this past 7 months that were memorable.

(1) The 1st was a house owned by the estate of a deceased plumber. The crawlspace access had 4 steps down into a large window well. The base was lined with pea gravel and the walls were block - about 5' tall. The access was a standard walk door cut down to 4' tall.

As soon as you opened this door there was a wall light switch. I flipped it and the place lit up like Christmas. The guy had hung 9 flouresent light fixtures from the floor joists at various places (double 4' lights in each). The floor was pea gravel and vapor barrier. He had cut strips of indoor/outdoor carpet that were 3' wide and ran them around the perimeter of the foundation wall about 12" in from the walls. He had done the same thing from the entryway to the furnace AND to the area below every bathroom or plumbing fixture in the house above. Then he had cut openings for 5 registers into the HVAC ducts.

If that wasn't good enough, I had 4' to 5' of headroom everywhere.

(2) This POS was by the KCI airport. As I inspected the house I quickly realized I had seen NO furnace, water heater or electrical panel. When I get to Mr Crawlspace, I find mud and 2' - 3' max headspace everywhere. I start to not go then with my floodlight, I see out in the middle the top 2' of a furnace and water heater sticking up out of the dirt. My curiosity gets the better of me. I CAREFULLY crawl out there looking for snakes, rats or wires of any kind. I look in the PIT and then freak out.

Someone has dug a PIT in the ground AND dropped the furnace and water heater down in the pit. Its got about 12" clearance on all sides to the units. There is not a chance in hell that a service guy could work on MOST of either appliance if they quit. While I'm laying there in the mud trying to figure out what kind of IDIOT did this, I glance around and see my electrical panel mounted flush on the bottom of the floor joists about 6' away. In short you had to lay on your back in the mud looking up at the cover to take it off.

When I came out of the crawlspace and changed clothes, the agent asked if everything was OK. I politely told them HELL NO, and recommended having COMPETENT and LICENSED contractors relocate the furnace, water heater and electrical panel outside the crawlspace - then call me for a reinspection. He informed me that its been that way for years and must have passed code, etc, etc. I laughed - a lot ................

Obviously the agent was impressed as heck with my skills and has referred me to all his clients and fellow realtors - OR - choice B, I've never heard from him again. You make the call and guess which.

[William J. Decker]

Whenever someone (seller, Realtor, etc) uses the lame excuse that "It passed codes inspection", "it's been that way for years and passed code at the time", or "but is it OK by code", I ask them to prove it. "Show me, on the letterhead of the local code dept., a formal and official approval of this specific issue, signed off my the local code inspector. If you can, which you can't, I will then be able to safely pass off any liability I have to them."

But they never do and I have never had anyone argue with me.

BTW: The same arguement applies to builders for new construction inspections.