How are you advising home owners on room temps

[Kevin R. Weiss]

Back to your original question, I would not note anything about that in a report.

[Ron Bibler]

Originally Posted by kweiss

Back to your original question, I would not note anything about that in a report.

Kevin Why ? Is it not an issue? and can it be corrected ?


John McKenna

" I would advise the Client that the floors may cause them
to feel cold (common to naked slabs), even though
the heater is running. If they understand why the feel
uncomfortable, then they are less likely to call you back
to complain."

Best

Ron

[Jeff S. Vogan]

Originally Posted by kweiss

Back to your original question, I would not note anything about that in a report.

Agreed....TOTALLY

[David A. Andersen]

I just came from an inspection like this and yes, I report it every time I see it.

This may seem insignificant to you, but when the client becomes uncomfortable and eventually learns why, they are more than willing to put the blame on you" the inspector" .

This is a difficult situation to overcome but if you have invested in thermal imaging it is extremely easy to determine and document.

I used to argue for days with contractors about this situation which without any qualitative analysis I would point out. Now however, I can show exactly what is occurring in a visual scan. I have been discussing this problem for years, but until now I have not been able to document exactly what is going on.

If nothing more, the client needs to realize that the HVAC equipment is not at fault for their "discomfort"! The design is inadequate. You guys refer further investigation for all kinds of stuff. Try referring a testing, adjusting and balancing technician (TAB).

We don't need to enforce any building code or standard, we just need to show that discomfort conditions exist. If you don't want to become involved, just keep away from it.

When I have time, I will set up an example for this situation as a video to demonstrate fluid dynamics and psychometrics of fluids. Hot and cold fluids do not mix.

Yes, ceiling fans can improve the situation but are not a solution.

[G McKenna]

Originally Posted by dandersen

I just came from an inspection like this and yes, I report it every time I see it.

This may seem insignificant to you, but when the client becomes uncomfortable and eventually learns why, they are more than willing to put the blame on you" the inspector" .

This is a difficult situation to overcome but if you have invested in thermal imaging it is extremely easy to determine and document.

I used to argue for days with contractors about this situation which without any qualitative analysis I would point out. Now however, I can show exactly what is occurring in a visual scan. I have been discussing this problem for years, but until now I have not been able to document exactly what is going on.

If nothing more, the client needs to realize that the HVAC equipment is not at fault for their "discomfort"! The design is inadequate. You guys refer further investigation for all kinds of stuff. Try referring a testing, adjusting and balancing technician (TAB).

We don't need to enforce any building code or standard, we just need to show that discomfort conditions exist. If you don't want to become involved, just keep away from it.

When I have time, I will set up an example for this situation as a video to demonstrate fluid dynamics and psychometrics of fluids. Hot and cold fluids do not mix.

Yes, ceiling fans can improve the situation but are not a solution.

Good points.

[Kevin R. Weiss]

Originally Posted by rbibler

Kevin Why ? Is it not an issue? and can it be corrected ?



Ron

Around here I consider it the accepted/typical building standard for the last 10 years. 95% plus of the homes I see that age have all of the vents in the ceiling. Even worse, they often have a huge 2 story area that is open from the main living area to the upstairs "game room." Then both the first and second floor returns are on the second floor. HVAC design is so bad around here it is almost laughable.

"I have rooms that are terribly uncomfortable" is probably the number one complaint I here on warranty inspections. Sometimes there is missing insulation or an obvious flaw with the ductwork or something with the system. But most of the time the problem is the overall design of the system - which was designed for the model not that specific home or the location of the thermostat. Or they try and control both sides of the upstairs - seperated by the large open area I spoke of - with one thermostat - impossible.

I recommend that they have the HVAC contractor balance the system. Otherwise it would require a complete redesign. The reality is that will not happen. So I explain possible improvements - ceiling fans, remote thermostats, etc. I feel I would be giving unreasonable expectations if I suggested in my report that the system be redone, when I KNOW that is not going to happen. Better in my opinion to try and help the customer learn how to make the system they have work better for them.

[David A. Andersen]

I know what you mean.
All we can do is report the facts...

Right?

[Ron Bibler]

I have a meeting next week with an HVAC Company Owner and his design team to go over some of my images on this subject. The shop steward has informed me that there work load is off... So my thinking is if this company has an IR report as part of there contracts to show buyers there new system Is working. They will get more contracts and i get the IR Work. and the home owner will have a better system for the money.

I will keep you up to date if this works out...

Thinking out of the box...

Best

Ron

[Jason Kaylor]

Ron,

We have been marketing our local HVAC contractors for a couple of months now. If they do refrigeration work on top of HVAC work you will be asked questions about freezers, coolers and finding freon leaks. They will also want to know what kind of diagnostics you can do on the actual units. You might want to do some research on the units themselves, just so you know their terms and their applications.

R22 systems will be under 205°F, and R410A units will be under 161°F.
Those are the critical temps for both refrigerants. If the temp would exceed that. The refrigerant vapor would break down.

Most systems have a condensing temp of 130°F and less, depending on conditions of that day.

Generally speaking the exterior of the unit will be 5 to 8 degrees above the ambient temp max. The air discharged from the unit will probably be 15 to 30 degrees above ambient temp (when it is operating).

The hottest section of any refrigeration system that uses a compressor and refrigerant will be the discharge line from the compressor (discharge superheat + heat of compression). If your infrared ever indicates that line is warmer than 212°F, that system is headed for trouble.

100C is about as hot as you are going to need under extreme circumstances, so any of our lower temp model cameras will work for the unit diagnostics. Emissivity is going to be an issue on most components in an HVAC system. Shinier objects emit less so they are used extensively in most components of an HVAC system.

Thought that might help prepare ya a little

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Specialty Products
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
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[David A. Andersen]

Bring plenty of tape!

The most critical temps will be located on the large suction line as it enters the compressor, the large suction line leaving the evap coil. The liquid line entering the metering device.

Someone will have to get you some refrigerant pressures (and type of refrigerant) so you can determine what to look for.