Energy Audits, I'm in the process of starting a new company..

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

...and I would like to know the best schools in Canada or the US for training.
I need to send myself along with 2 employees for training, any advice would be appreciated!

[Rodney Misener]

Mario,

If you are wanting to offer customers gov't rebates for upgrades done in Canada under he EcoEnergy program, you must be a liscenced service organization for Natural Resources Canada. They are currently not accepting any applications (and will not be in the near future). There is no school to go to, NRCan does all the training. I would suggest for now maybe approaching a current service organization and maybe you can train and do audits under their liscence.

[Justo Mickey Rivera]

In the U.S. you can try Home Tune Up.com (on the easy to do side), BPI.org and RESNET.us (both, a little bit more intense and costly).

Also depends what you're looking to do/accomplish/needs. Existing homes, Energy Star Homes, checklist type inspections.

Mic

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Thanks guys!

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Thanks to Mark for the time he took from a busy day to call me for additional information!

Thanks Mark

Mark is a fellow Torontonian and a NACHI member. I will allow him to identify himself and the info he provided me, if he so chooses.

[TONY M. FERREIRA]

Hey there mario, hope your new year was great. HERES SOME INFO ON THIS COMPANY FROM LONDON THAT IS DOING THIS TRAINING. ITS A 40 HR COURSE. BUYWISE INSPECTION SERVICES. 568 OXFORD ST EAST, LONDON ONT. 1-519-657-1966. TOTAL COST IS AROUND $720.00. VERY INTERSETED MY SELF ,BUT DOING A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH FIRST BEFORE SIGNING UP . HOPE THIS HELPS BRO, TALK TO YOU LATER.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by tferreira

Hey there mario, hope your new year was great. HERES SOME INFO ON THIS COMPANY FROM LONDON THAT IS DOING THIS TRAINING. ITS A 40 HR COURSE. BUYWISE INSPECTION SERVICES. 568 OXFORD ST EAST, LONDON ONT. 1-519-657-1966. TOTAL COST IS AROUND $720.00. VERY INTERSETED MY SELF ,BUT DOING A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH FIRST BEFORE SIGNING UP . HOPE THIS HELPS BRO, TALK TO YOU LATER.

Thanks Tony!!

[Darren St.jacques]

Mario,
I looked into this a little while back. What a Friggin' pain in the rear!
As previously stated NRCan is not offering to license any more people at this time. I contacted quite a few comapnies and 2 (both from BC) got back to me. One would train me in BC for a week, administer the exam and follow up on my 10 first inspections.
They provide the blower door and the training- all told about $6k, which includes the blower door.
BUT- Here's the Kicker: You end up being licensed UNDER them and doing inspections for them. They charge the client $300 for the first visit and $150 for the 2nd. (The client gets a $150 rebate from Mr. Harper)
They pay you- wait for it..... $80.00 for the first inspection and $75.00 for the follow up one.

I said-
"So let me see if I understand this properly: You want me to fly to BC, PAY YOU for the training and then give up over 1/2 of the fee to you too- and at the end of it, I'm just working for you???" Reply: yes
"Can I still be a private contractor then?" Reply: No, you are under our license. If you stop working for us, then you can no longer offer the rebates to clients.
"The why the hell would I pay all that money to you, just to make you even more money? Tell me people don't really fall for this scam do they? I will be writing to my local MP and telling him about this monopoly you folks seem to have" Reply: Have a nice day sir. and he hung up- Jerk!
I hung up and felt very PISS'D

Here are 2 links to companies that would do the training. One is in Richmond hill, the same shiite as the first.
The second one is the BC company.


http://energywisesolutions.ca/becoming-an-advisor

http://www.homeperformance.com/build...me-performance

If this one in London is prepared to offer the training and I end up with an exclusive license under NRCan- I will be ecstatic to take the training!!
D

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by dstjacques

Mario,
I looked into this a little while back. What a Friggin' pain in the rear!
As previously stated NRCan is not offering to license any more people at this time. I contacted quite a few comapnies and 2 (both from BC) got back to me. One would train me in BC for a week, administer the exam and follow up on my 10 first inspections.
They provide the blower door and the training- all told about $6k, which includes the blower door.
BUT- Here's the Kicker: You end up being licensed UNDER them and doing inspections for them. They charge the client $300 for the first visit and $150 for the 2nd. (The client gets a $150 rebate from Mr. Harper)
They pay you- wait for it..... $80.00 for the first inspection and $75.00 for the follow up one.

I said-
"So let me see if I understand this properly: You want me to fly to BC, PAY YOU for the training and then give up over 1/2 of the fee to you too- and at the end of it, I'm just working for you???" Reply: yes
"Can I still be a private contractor then?" Reply: No, you are under our license. If you stop working for us, then you can no longer offer the rebates to clients.
"The why the hell would I pay all that money to you, just to make you even more money? Tell me people don't really fall for this scam do they? I will be writing to my local MP and telling him about this monopoly you folks seem to have" Reply: Have a nice day sir. and he hung up- Jerk!
I hung up and felt very PISS'D

Here are 2 links to companies that would do the training. One is in Richmond hill, the same shiite as the first.
The second one is the BC company.


http://energywisesolutions.ca/becoming-an-advisor

http://www.homeperformance.com/build...me-performance

If this one in London is prepared to offer the training and I end up with an exclusive license under NRCan- I will be ecstatic to take the training!!
D

This probably will happen when gravity fails!!!

[Linas I. Dapkus]

RESNET training providers Looks like there is one in Maine.

[Steven C. Waskewicz]

I'm wondering if any iNACHI inspectors are RESNET certified energy raters?
and is the training worth the cost to both the training organization, and the provider organizations you need to coordinate with?
Seems like a lot of money, with an unknown demand out there...

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by swaskewicz

I'm wondering if any iNACHI inspectors are RESNET certified energy raters?
and is the training worth the cost to both the training organization, and the provider organizations you need to coordinate with?
Seems like a lot of money, with an unknown demand out there...

As you probably already know, Steven, this thread was started by a Canuck. Really check out the demand in your area!!

The drive/demand in Canada for "certified energy auditors" is being abnormally driven by federal and, in some cases, additional provincial tax free grants for home owners to help subsidize/pay for energy conservation retrofits of their homes. But.............firstly you must have an audit done by a "certified" auditor before your home qualifies for the free $$$$$. So you can see why the great demand here........free government $$$$$$ for upgrading your home to save even more $$$$$......and along with free health care (well, sorta):

CANADA!!!!!! WHAT A COUNTRY!!!

IMHO, this has spawned a huge number of poorly qualified "certified" auditors with 2-3 days training and 5-7 reviewed trial audits (reviewed mostly by persons who never worked in the energy retrofit field!!). So in a week or so you have a professional "certified" energy auditor. BTW, my wife works seasonally as a fine dining chef....... she says she can't properly train a new dishwasher in less than a week or so!!!

[Rodney Misener]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

IMHO, this has spawned a huge number of poorly qualified "certified" auditors with 2-3 days training and 5-7 reviewed trial audits (reviewed mostly by persons who never worked in the energy retrofit field!!). So in a week or so you have a professional "certified" energy auditor. BTW, my wife works seasonally as a fine dining chef....... she says she can't properly train a new dishwasher in less than a week or so!!!

The Federal gov't (NRCan) does not choose the energy auditors, they hire the Service Organizations. It is up to the service organization to see that the candidates have the appropriate experience. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. I agree that the training requirements are just not enough. Now it entails a 5 day course, and 7 reviewed audits(2 being supervised). I had 10+ yrs experience in construction when I took my course to be an energy auditor. I found the course was more geared to teaching me how to use the computer program and writing the report than anything. The building science content was just not there. I find the majority of my clients during an energy audit get more from my expertise and knowledge in a discussion than they ever will from a report. I have seen many energy reports from other auditors that just don't make sense. I have seen recos that were flat out wrong and/or unnessecary.In short, I guess what I'm trying to say is that NRCan has to step up to the plate and toss some of these "looks good on paper" kind of people when it comes to energy audits. Is that gonna happen anytime soon? Don't hold your breath.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by rmisener

The Federal gov't (NRCan) does not choose the energy auditors, they hire the Service Organizations. It is up to the service organization to see that the candidates have the appropriate experience. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. I agree that the training requirements are just not enough. Now it entails a 5 day course, and 7 reviewed audits(2 being supervised).
Possibly since you were certified through an NGO with no profit motives, you received 5 days of training. It used to be 4 days with that same group; looks like they found out more training is needed but as you say, still not nearly enough!!! I've heard (but can't confirm) that some earlier service providers did as little as 3 days training!!! I believe 2 weeks training by an experienced auditor with good Building Science skills and has 3-5 full years of actual retrofit work experience in (1) airsealing using a blower door (2) blown insulation experience, (3) spray foam experience (4) carpentry is the minimal that should be required.

I had 10+ yrs experience in construction when I took my course to be an energy auditor. I found the course was more geared to teaching me how to use the computer program and writing the report than anything.
Luckily you had energy retrofit + construction experience and your firm already had IR equipment........you had a big head start but still say more training needed!! Think of some of the others with minimal experience getting certified. If they don't understand what they're looking at and how to best retrofit an area economically, the report becomes the computer based phrase: GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT!! Saw one of those last week:

- Small 1.5 storey house with triangular outer attics; 2 upper bedrooms with 4 flimsy thin paneling hatches to the outer attic
- R7-8 paper backed fiberglass batts on the sloping (cathedral) ceiling (2x6+ inch rafters) from main house support walls to the roof ridge. The auditor claimed it was R20 batts????!!!!
- his recommendation was to airseal where necessary, insulate the kneewall and outer attic floor!! Rebuild, insulate, weatherstrip the 4 outer attic hatches and install ventilation (4 vents) for the now cold outer attics. If he originally would have called it correctly and there were R20 batts in the slopes, this would have a costly retrofit with very little payback!!


My recommendations:
-begin installing airtight 6 mil vapour retarder and support retarder & paper faced batts with cheap/scrap materials where exposed in the outer attics
-break through the thin batts at the kneewall top plate area & blow cellulose fiber up the finished slopes and down the slopes to the top of the main house wall now that the exposed batts are supported
- install R20 fiber glass batts where the original batts were disturbed/damaged and complete air tight retarder by sealing to the kneewall top plate. Install R12 batts/airtight retarder on the outer attic gable ends triangular walls.


Now the outer attic is a warm , insulated, airtight space without need of (1) ventilation nor (2) weatherstripped insulated doors. Back in the 1980's, my company started using this approach in '83. This technique appeared on the USDOE EERE website about 7-8 years ago; here is the current version:

http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/consumer/your_home/insulation_airsealing/index.cfm/mytopic=11420

Knee Wall Insulation and Air Sealing

Knee walls—often found in houses with finished attics—are vertical walls with attic space directly behind them. These walls are notoriously leaky and often uninsulated. For energy efficiency, a knee wall and the attic floor in the attic space behind it should be properly insulated and air sealed.
Before insulating or deciding whether to add insulation to your knee wall, first see our information about adding insulation to an existing house or selecting insulation for new home construction if you haven't already.
Insulation and Air Sealing Techniques

When installing the insulation, you can use twine to hold batt insulation in place. The technique of adding rigid foam insulation over the framing is particularly effective. Rigid insulation can be notched to fit over the floor joists. Sealing rigid insulation to floor joists effectively blocks open floor joists.

The best approach for creating an energy-efficient knee wall is to insulate and air seal the rafter space along the sloping ceiling of the knee wall attic space:

1. Insulate the rafters at the recommended insulation levels or R values.
2. Cover the rafters with a sealed air barrier, such as drywall or foil-faced hardboard. Caulk the barrier to the top plate of the knee wall itself.
3. Seal any other cracks and holes.

One advantage of this approach is that any ductwork located in this space is now inside the conditioned space. Therefore, the ductwork won't require insulation.


BTW: After the work was completed, the young lady/owner of the above mentioned house was putting stored items back into the outer attic during the hurricane force winds just before Xmas (that knocked a lot of power out around the province). She said it was so quiet in the outer attics she actually had to stop and listen for the wind!! She also said that with the 100 watt light + her expended energy moving boxes, etc., it got a little hot!!

The building science content was just not there. I find the majority of my clients during an energy audit get more from my expertise and knowledge in a discussion than they ever will from a report. I have seen many energy reports from other auditors that just don't make sense. I have seen recos that were flat out wrong and/or unnessecary.
(see above!!) I rarely find a report that I would give an "A" to (haven't seen any of yours)......so people are missing out in their energy retrofits unless thay happen to get a truly up to date well trained contractor........maybe only 2 or 3 in this province!!

In short, I guess what I'm trying to say is that NRCan has to step up to the plate and toss some of these "looks good on paper" kind of people when it comes to energy audits. Is that gonna happen anytime soon? Don't hold your breath.

A little birdie told me last week, that some field monitoring of auditors' work will finally begin in the new year!! Maybe some changes will occur......training will improve and some re-training will have to carried out.


regards

[sblayney]

Originally Posted by rmisener

The Federal gov't (NRCan) does not choose the energy auditors, they hire the Service Organizations. It is up to the service organization to see that the candidates have the appropriate experience. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. I agree that the training requirements are just not enough. Now it entails a 5 day course, and 7 reviewed audits(2 being supervised). I had 10+ yrs experience in construction when I took my course to be an energy auditor. I found the course was more geared to teaching me how to use the computer program and writing the report than anything. The building science content was just not there. I find the majority of my clients during an energy audit get more from my expertise and knowledge in a discussion than they ever will from a report. I have seen many energy reports from other auditors that just don't make sense. I have seen recos that were flat out wrong and/or unnessecary.In short, I guess what I'm trying to say is that NRCan has to step up to the plate and toss some of these "looks good on paper" kind of people when it comes to energy audits. Is that gonna happen anytime soon? Don't hold your breath.

Keep in mind you will need to write a 2 hr online exam with 75 to pass, if you don't pass, you don't audit!