Episode 52 - Performing a Home Inspection According to the SOP

[James F. McKee]

Brian ...i believe You are barking up the wrong tree this evening ...now go away...

[James H. Bushart]

In this case, I have to agree with those who are pointing out the flawed data that...once again....finds its way into a NACHI Tv "training" film.

Somewhere along the line in this process, certain people have to make up their minds as to what is being represented.

Do we, indeed, consider this an amateur effort and applaud a couple of good-ol-boys playing with a video camera for almost being correct in their project? Or do we consider them...as they want to be considered...as educators and hold them to the higher standard? It cannot be both ways.

Do we REALLY advise our clients to replace a water heater that was installed in 2004? Is it REALLY advisable to enter low, wet crawl spaces to prove you are a man? Will a Hartford Loop REALLY be found under a sink in a kitchen island?

Imagine the travesty of one combining all of these in one home inspection and report.

Cranking these things out every other week is obviously not allowing a sufficient time to research and validate the information that is being provided and the reputation for accuracy has already diminished to such a degree that it is hard to imagine anyone paying to view one of these films, IMO.

Since it bears the NACHI name and reflects upon the association, you can always bet that the Brian MacNeishes of the world will be pointing at and magnifying these errors to try to add credibility to their foolish arguments.

If Ben and Kenton want the credit...they must also bear the blame.

[Marcel Gratton]

Originally Posted by jbushart

In this case, I have to agree with those who are pointing out the flawed data that...once again....finds its way into a NACHI Tv "training" film.

Somewhere along the line in this process, certain people have to make up their minds as to what is being represented.

Do we, indeed, consider this an amateur effort and applaud a couple of good-ol-boys playing with a video camera for almost being correct in their project? Or do we consider them...as they want to be considered...as educators and hold them to the higher standard? It cannot be both ways.

Do we REALLY advise our clients to replace a water heater that was installed in 2004? Is it REALLY advisable to enter low, wet crawl spaces to prove you are a man? Will a Hartford Loop REALLY be found under a sink in a kitchen island?

Imagine the travesty of one combining all of these in one home inspection and report.

Cranking these things out every other week is obviously not allowing a sufficient time to research and validate the information that is being provided and the reputation for accuracy has already diminished to such a degree that it is hard to imagine anyone paying to view one of these films, IMO.

Since it bears the NACHI name and reflects upon the association, you can always bet that the Brian MacNeishes of the world will be pointing at and magnifying these errors to try to add credibility to their foolish arguments.

If Ben and Kenton want the credit...they must also bear the blame.

I agree James!

Too much info which are not completely accurate in some instances.

These videos needs to be better edited.

[dharris]

Do we REALLY advise our clients to replace a water heater that was installed in 2004? Is it REALLY advisable to enter low, wet crawl spaces to prove you are a man? Will a Hartford Loop REALLY be found under a sink in a kitchen island?

Imagine the travesty of one combining all of these in one home inspection and report.

Are you suggesting info provided by nacho
"Certified MASTER Inspectors" may not be accurate

[relliott]

Originally Posted by dharris

Are you suggesting info provided by nacho
"Certified MASTER Inspectors" may not be accurate

You and Brian make a great tag team.

Listen the darn video is how long?

I can find many innacuracies in any 30 minute TV show, so give credit where credit is due guys.

Perhaps they should just do nothing, then there would be nothing to criticize.

How accurate are the ASSIE videos.?

O yeah , they do not have money left over in their budget from all their attempted branding ,to actually do things for their members. (like anyone outside Inspecting really cares)

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

So no one else had anything to discuss???? It's all I simply did!!!

Mario:
Don't you call low, dangerous railings in your inspections?? I would hope so!!!

Brian,

You are making assumptions again; you have to know all the facts before you do that. This Romeo and Juliet balcony doesn’t appear to be big enough for me to stand on, so a bistro table for two is out of the question! I have seen these balconies built for aesthetic purposes in the past, including the door [non-functioning].
There are probably no fewer than 50 [conservative figure] code violations for a home constructed at the turn of the last century. When people mention “They don’t build them like they used to” my response is “Thank God”
When I inspect a building I never mention CODE, do you? Are you qualified to quote Code? Do you really want the added liability? I think not.
Stop watching Mickey brother!!

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mkyriacou

Brian,

You are making assumptions again; you have to know all the facts before you do that. This Romeo and Juliet balcony doesn’t appear to be big enough for me to stand on, so a bistro table for two is out of the question! I have seen these balconies built for aesthetic purposes in the past, including the door [non-functioning].
The last one I inspected (18 months ago) was on the third storey of a historic bed and breakfast operation. The door was functional!!!!
There are probably no fewer than 50 [conservative figure] code violations for a home constructed at the turn of the last century. When people mention “They don’t build them like they used to” my response is “Thank God”
When I inspect a building I never mention CODE, do you?
Yes, at times. Don't you when you see improper clearances of furnaces/ flue pipes from combustibles? What is your reference when you call something on a PDI inspection?
About 3 months ago, I called 6 code items (the worst was that bedroom windows did not meet egress requirements) on a $1.3 million house that an architect designed and built for his brother just 2.5 years ago!! Yes, they were all in the code in effect then....and this home had its Occupancy Permit!!!
Are you qualified to quote Code? Do you really want the added liability? I think not.
I do litigation assistance so I have to know what I talk about! The last litigation report I wrote was against an award winning architect.......we requested a response within 30 days but just got one about 130 days later.....they want to come back to the table to discuss things after originally threatening to take my client to court about her hold back of many $1,000's!!

Stop watching Mickey brother!!

Regards

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

I do litigation assistance so I have to know what I talk about!

What are your qualifications with regard to the building code?

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mkyriacou

What are your qualifications with regard to the building code?

What are a contractor's, engineer's or architect's qualifications in respect to the codes. They are not trained specifically to be code inspectors and usually take no full courses on the building code nor are certified in the code anyway but have to use it all the time!!!

The opposing sides in a litigation will both have copies of the codes and bring their points of the code to the table. Obviously in the last one I worked on, the architect and contractor have had a change of mind as THEY want to come back to the table to discuss things after threatening to sue!!! Too bad!! OUR side is not going back to the table......they can try and sue for their $$$$$....... and if they don't or take a lot more time or too much time to wrap up this part of the ongoings, I will tell my client to call in the the consulting specialists I recommended and proceed to sue them for a couple of major items plus the stuff we've already found violates code .......or was very poorly done and is failing after 2.5 years.

Mario:
I'm used as a litigation consultant and expert witness........doesn't that tell you anything???

Last fall I was recommended by someone at the Dalhousie U. architectural school to investigate severe rot in one wall of a 7 month old $800,000 house . By the time it was over, 2 engineers, a Phd mycologist, the home warranty program rep and myself were on site at various times. When I was brought in about halfway through the reconstruction, I stopped it and had them start uncovering finished walls/joists, etc......even over the contractor's engineer's wishes......guess who won that one- the home owner.........doesn't that tell you anything?

The longest litigation I was involved in took 2 weeks short of 6 years.(2000-2006). Discovery took place in 2004- the homeowner called me to ask what my fees would be for discovery......."but don't start to get ready... it appears they are not going to call you. We just want to know what it may cost". So I wasn't called to discovery but the architect hired by the owner was....he was dismissed at noon by the owner's lawyer: she claimed he was losing the case!!! So even after not being called in to discovery, my report seemed to rule. The contractor settled for the original requested amount 2 weeks before the court date of June 24/2006. My clients did not get their costs but were happy to not have this drag on any longer.......doesn't that............

anyways.....you wouldn't understand?

[James F. McKee]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

What are a contractor's, engineer's or architect's qualifications in respect to the codes. They are not trained specifically to be code inspectors and usually take no full courses on the building code nor are certified in the code anyway but have to use it all the time!!!

The opposing sides in a litigation will both have copies of the codes and bring their points of the code to the table. Obviously in the last one I worked on, the architect and contractor have had a change of mind as THEY want to come back to the table to discuss things after threatening to sue!!! Too bad!! OUR side is not going back to the table......they can try and sue for their $$$$$....... and if they don't or take a lot more time or too much time to wrap up this part of the ongoings, I will tell my client to call in the the consulting specialists I recommended and proceed to sue them for a couple of major items plus the stuff we've already found violates code .......or was very poorly done and is failing after 2.5 years.

Mario:
I'm used as a litigation consultant and expert witness........doesn't that tell you anything???

Last fall I was recommended by someone at the Dalhousie U. architectural school to investigate severe rot in one wall of a 7 month old $800,000 house . By the time it was over, 2 engineers, a Phd mycologist, the home warranty program rep and myself were on site at various times. When I was brought in about halfway through the reconstruction, I stopped it and had them start uncovering finished walls/joists, etc......even over the contractor's engineer's wishes......guess who won that one- the home owner.........doesn't that tell you anything?

The longest litigation I was involved in took 2 weeks short of 6 years.(2000-2006). Discovery took place in 2004- the homeowner called me to ask what my fees would be for discovery......."but don't start to get ready... it appears they are not going to call you. We just want to know what it may cost". So I wasn't called to discovery but the architect hired by the owner was....he was dismissed at noon by the owner's lawyer: she claimed he was losing the case!!! So even after not being called in to discovery, my report seemed to rule. The contractor settled for the original requested amount 2 weeks before the court date of June 24/2006. My clients did not get their costs but were happy to not have this drag on any longer.......doesn't that............

anyways.....you wouldn't understand?

Wow Brian...it sure sounds like you impress yourself...

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

What are a contractor's, engineer's or architect's qualifications in respect to the codes. They are not trained specifically to be code inspectors and usually take no full courses on the building code nor are certified in the code anyway but have to use it all the time!!!



I'm used as a litigation consultant and expert witness........doesn't that tell you anything???

YES IT DOES!!! It tells me that your above statement is HOGWASH to put it mildly.
You keep on spinning it anyway you want to, however you have not answered my question. "What are your qualifications with regard to the building code?" and please don't tell me that you reference all your info from the building code. The code is funny in many ways Brian, you would know this have you studied the code.

http://www.oaa.on.ca/client/oaa/OAAH...n!OpenDocument

Without getting into it, for your information all Architects and Engineers and a few Contractors are [BCQ] building code qualified.

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

Originally Posted by jmckee

Wow Brian...it sure sounds like you impress yourself...

That's funny James, accurate and funny!!

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mkyriacou

YES IT DOES!!! It tells me that your above statement is HOGWASH to put it mildly.
You keep on spinning it anyway you want to, however you have not answered my question. "What are your qualifications with regard to the building code?" and please don't tell me that you reference all your info from the building code. The code is funny in many ways Brian, you would know this have you studied the code.

http://www.oaa.on.ca/client/oaa/OAAH...n!OpenDocument

Without getting into it, for your information all Architects and Engineers and a few Contractors are [BCQ] building code qualified.

Let's get into it...... since I just got off the phone with the architect who was responsible for adopting/modifyng Part 3.8 Barrier-Free Design of our provincial code.

Her memories of taking anything about the code: "We were introduced to it and given a copy of it". She paid for her code courses after being out of school so she could be better informed and knowledgeable. Her current project is a government building......and the architectural consortium has hired a building code consultant......the former provincial official who was responsible for adopting and administering the code!! If these people are code knowledgeable, why are they needing a code consultant?? May be different in different areas but explain to me how all arch and engineers are code qualified in your area? Could they walk onto any job site and competently do an inspection?

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by mkyriacou

YES IT DOES!!! It tells me that your above statement is HOGWASH to put it mildly.
You keep on spinning it anyway you want to, however you have not answered my question. "What are your qualifications with regard to the building code?" and please don't tell me that you reference all your info from the building code. The code is funny in many ways Brian, you would know this have you studied the code.

http://www.oaa.on.ca/client/oaa/OAAH...n!OpenDocument

Without getting into it, for your information all Architects and Engineers and a few Contractors are [BCQ] building code qualified.

Let's get into it...... since I just got off the phone with the architect who was responsible for adopting/modifyng Part 3.8 Barrier-Free Design of our provincial code.

Her memories of taking anything about the code: "We were introduced to it and given a copy of it". She paid for her code courses after being out of school so she could be better informed and knowledgeable. Her current project is a government building......and the architectural consortium has hired a building code consultant......the former provincial official who was responsible for adopting and administering the code!! If these people are code knowledgeable, why are they needing a code consultant?? May be different in different areas but explain to me how all arch and engineers are code qualified in your area? Could they walk onto any job site and competently do an inspection?

[Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI]

May be different in different areas but explain to me how all arch and engineers are code qualified in your area? Could they walk onto any job site and competently do an inspection?

The short answer is yes.
Think about it, how can an architect or a designer or an engineer design a structure without full knowledge of the code?

BTW A Designer also has to be BCQ here in Ontario.

wand is correct, I know the code and used it [when required] when I was a contractor. As a HI on any property other than new construction...NEVER, AND I WOULD CERTAINLY NOT TELL A CLIENT THAT A RAILING IS NOT TO CODE ON A 100 YEAR OLD HOUSE!

I do agree with you on a previous statement you made, we as Home Inspectors need a reference, and for all PDI inspections. All PDI's however do NOT require a great deal of code knowledge. What requires a great deal of code knowledge is a Phase inspection, such as a framing inspection IMO

SORRY FOR THE SHORT REPLY BUT I WANT TO GET BACK TO THE DEBATE!!