New Texas Standards of Practice

[Michael R. Boyett]

No, I'm just referring to the Commentary....the SOP & new form are still scheduled for 2/1/09. Now, I will say that there is an item on the 12/15 TREC meeting agenda that says "16. Discussion and possible action regarding the effective date of the home inspector Standards of Practice and Standard Inspection Report Form" and no one seems to know what prompted that but it is not because of the Commentary. It may be that other s/w developers are requesting additional time.

[Dominic J. Maricic]

If so, I don't see why. It's not that huge of a difference from the software point of view I don't need additional time! Hehe.

[Chuck Evans]

Originally Posted by escanlan

Anything prior to mid 2009 would significantly cut into the current revenue generation scheme of the "true intent of the SOP" classes that are now being sold at $145 a pop!

No waaay. Not possible. Didn't the TREC attorney testify that the cost for businesses to adopt the new Standard Of Practice and forms was trivial? How could there be money in it?

[Jack R. Robnett]

Any idea how much longer an inspection will take? Anyone planning on raising their prices? A local inspector told me he was not raising his prices. I was thinking adding 75 to 100 per inspection.

[Emmanuel J. Scanlan]

Originally Posted by cevans

No waaay. Not possible. Didn't the TREC attorney testify that the cost for businesses to adopt the new Standard Of Practice and forms was trivial? How could there be money in it?

Chuck,

$145 is most likely trivial to an Attorney. Quite possibly their lunch tip money for the month!

[Chuck Evans]

Originally Posted by escanlan

Chuck,

$145 is most likely trivial to an Attorney. Quite possibly their lunch tip money for the month!

I know. $145 training is one piece. Buying software updates or updating your own report templates, revising verbiage in canned comments, etc. Addiding sundry items like water pressure gauges, etc. Kind of adds up in terms of either real $ or time/opportunity expense. Seemed cavalier that they just declared it to be trivial and not a factor.

Took them how long to get the SOP written/passed? Probably the better part of another year before they will produce the commentary, but dismiss the effort for businesses to comply with a zero day transition period as trival... Hope everbody's software works right on the first live run because there's no fallback.

[John Onofrey]

From a practical standpoint, the commentary should be released PRIOR to the SOP changes taking effect.

[Michael R. Boyett]

John, that of course would result in 'the horse before the cart' and that just wouldn't do now would it?

I saw the various 1st sections of the Commentary yesterday during the teleconference and I actually got a preliminary draft last night. One area that was covered was the controversial section that requires Texas HI's to 'random sample the roofing fasteners' to ensure proper installation. There's even photos in the Commentary depicting this. I, and I hope others, continue to be baffled and will disagree on the concept of this practice. We are now required to lift shingles to check the nails/staples. The proponent of this new requirement still believes that shingles should be and can be safety lifted even if they have sealed down. I tried that on my house with 20 yr shingles and couldn't do it and have tried it on 30 year shingles with no success at all.

[John Onofrey]

Well, I've successfully lifted shingles (using a blade) while making roof covering repairs. Sometimes the shingles I'm lifting tear which just makes more area that needs repair.

I'm not in the business of roof repair except on my own houses. I suspect I will depart from the SOP on this unless I can comply by identifing the fasteners from the attic space.

[Barry Adair]

Originally Posted by mboyett

John, that of course would result in 'the horse before the cart' and that just wouldn't do now would it?

I saw the various 1st sections of the Commentary yesterday during the teleconference and I actually got a preliminary draft last night. One area that was covered was the controversial section that requires Texas HI's to 'random sample the roofing fasteners' to ensure proper installation. There's even photos in the Commentary depicting this. I, and I hope others, continue to be baffled and will disagree on the concept of this practice. We are now required to lift shingles to check the nails/staples. The proponent of this new requirement still believes that shingles should be and can be safety lifted even if they have sealed down. I tried that on my house with 20 yr shingles and couldn't do it and have tried it on 30 year shingles with no success at all.

So what will you be putting in your report? You'll have mail

[Michael R. Boyett]

Originally Posted by jonofrey

Well, I've successfully lifted shingles (using a blade) while making roof covering repairs. Sometimes the shingles I'm lifting tear which just makes more area that needs repair.

Well, then I question just how 'successfully' you lifted those shingles.

Also, remember that if you routinely and as a matter of business practice decide to depart from that or any other section of the SOP then you must divulge that to a potential client during the initial contact call you have with the client. I know, that's an extreme but that's what the new rules require.

(C) If the inspector routinely departs from inspection of a part, system, or component, the earliest practical opportunity for the notice required by this subsection is the first contact with the prospect and the inspector has reason to believe that the property being inspected has the part, system, or component the inspector routinely does not inspect.

[Michael R. Boyett]

Originally Posted by jrobnett

Any idea how much longer an inspection will take? Anyone planning on raising their prices? A local inspector told me he was not raising his prices. I was thinking adding 75 to 100 per inspection.

I have heard extremes ranging from no additional time to as much as 8 or more hours for an inspection that complied explicitly with all of the new SOP. I think most all Texas HI's agree that the new SOP will result in more time on-site and report writing but only time will tell how much.

[Emmanuel J. Scanlan]

I sent this question to several major shingle manufacturers:

If I lift an already installed shingle, to inspect fasteners below and thereby breaking the original sealing strip bond, will this void the shingle warranty if the shingles are resealed with XXXX (manufacturers name) recommended asphalt roofing cement? That is assuming no other damage to the shingle was caused during this operation.

One very large manufacturer answered this way:

The shingle warranty is totally separate from installation practices, so the actual material is covered regardless. If the shingles blow off or lift up as a result of breaking the seal, then the responsibility would fall to the one who broke it. Roofing cement is a good idea, of course, there’s just no guarantee it will hold as well as the factory seal.

This, and other manufacturer's warranties do not cover damage to shingles from other than defects. As such, if you break a shingle while lifting the edge then you are certainly responsible for the damage.

As can be seen from this VERY LARGE manufacturer's response, they are not very impressed with resealing shingles.

[Michael R. Boyett]

Best I can tell Manny is that the TREC Inspector Advisory Committee (actually one Houston inspector on that committee) could care less what the manufacturer's say. His position is that shingle fasteners belong below the sealing strip and the strip does not need to be broken in order for the lower edge of the shingle to be lifted enough to see the fastener.

(B) Note deficiencies in:
(i) fastening of roof covering material, as determined by a random sampling;

Commentary -- Fastening of the roof covering materials may include fasteners and the sealing of composition shingles to each other. Fasteners on composition shingles are required to be located below the sealing adhesive strip and the ends of the shingles are supposed to have fasteners at about one inch from each end of the shingle. These fasteners, if properly located, can be seen by raising the edges of the shingles without damaging the sealing of the shingles. According to industry publications, the sealing of the shingles to each other is as important, or more important, than the location and number of fasteners. A random number of composition shingles should be checked to see that the shingles are sealed.

So, actually the Commentary confuses me more than helps me...are we to look for fasteners/nails/staples or are we to confirm the sealing??? Both, I guess.

[Dominic J. Maricic]

I'm almost done with the new software version for Texas (hopefully be done by the end of the weekend). If anyone would like to test it out post here, pm me or email me. I can't release it publicly as it would conflict with the current format.