Electrical SOP Question: Removing light bulbs

[Dianna Burley]

I have read and re-read the Electrical SOP's and cannot find specifically that we are required to remove light bulbs from fixtures to inspect the fixture and also to determine if the fixture and wattage of current bulb is compatible.

I recently performed an inspection that had the curly florescent bulbs in the kitchen can lights. The homeowner closed on the house, moved in and hired a remodeler who removed the bulbs in the kitchen fixtures, found some "burn" marks, black spots, in the fixture and determined that the bulbs are incorrect and the fixtures are overheating. I did not remove the bulbs during the inspection. Am i responsible for not reporting the condition of the fixtures, or for not reporting that the bulbs may or may not be compatible.......homeowner is looking for some resolve on this.

Any opinions and of course facts, are welcome.

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by dburley

I have read and re-read the Electrical SOP's and cannot find specifically that we are required to remove light bulbs from fixtures to inspect the fixture and also to determine if the fixture and wattage of current bulb is compatible.

I recently performed an inspection that had the curly florescent bulbs in the kitchen can lights. The homeowner closed on the house, moved in and hired a remodeler who removed the bulbs in the kitchen fixtures, found some "burn" marks, black spots, in the fixture and determined that the bulbs are incorrect and the fixtures are overheating. I did not remove the bulbs during the inspection. Am i responsible for not reporting the condition of the fixtures, or for not reporting that the bulbs may or may not be compatible.......homeowner is looking for some resolve on this.

Any opinions and of course facts, are welcome.

Hi Dianna
If you feel it is worth mentioning it most likely is.
Not a requirement to look inside or research fixture wattage limits or bulb types but as you go you will learn more and may wish to warn people about certain situations as tips in your report and on site.

can lights are a good example where this weekend for instance I found the place covered in can lights and they all had incandescent bulbs in them which in this case will case the reflector shades(plastic) to melt.
Most can lights inside the sleeve warn you to use Par spots rated under 75 watts.

Yesterday my inspection found bare bulb can lights above the shower.(safety hazard).

Forget minimum and just do the best you can and I see you care enough to ask.
Build up a good file system to search as you type and include verbiage plus pictures.

Below is an example.......................

All trims are suitable for damp locations; only shower trims are listed for wet locations.

[Dianna Burley]

Thank you for your advice Bob! I guess this is one more element to add to my inspection process. I pay particular attention to the can lights during the attic inspection, and I do note obvious issues, such as the shower lighting you described and incandescent bulbs in the can lighting. Its always about diligence it seems.....

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by dburley

Thank you for your advice Bob! I guess this is one more element to add to my inspection process. I pay particular attention to the can lights during the attic inspection, and I do note obvious issues, such as the shower lighting you described and incandescent bulbs in the can lighting. Its always about diligence it seems.....

Yeah and Inspectors like us take forever to do reports ,so it is a trade off.

If you are a newer Inspector take 8 hours to do the reports and you will find it a great educational experience as you look up all this stuff and start filing it.
I am fast with info often because of the importance I place on storing files.

[Michael R. Boyett]

Dianna, the TREC SOP certainly doesn't require you to remove or verify lamp wattages or bulb suitability. If I were a betting person, I'd more suspect a prior improper flood lamp had caused the burn marks and the Seller or someone had subsequently installed fluorescent curly-ques. If the lights worked properly at the time at the time of the inspection then you've met your minimum requirements. Now, you may very well want to exceed those standards and you may also want to participate in some retribution but there's no requirement that you do so, in my opinion.

[Dianna Burley]

Hi Mike,
This is the first time that I've run across this issue. I agree that it was a pre-existing condition caused by the previous homeowner's usage of incompatible lamps. Retribution is not in the picture. I've come to the conclusion that if you agree to something like that, you assume responsibility of not reporting it, which means that you didn't perform the inspection to at least minimum standards.

I don't know if the contractor is advising her to replace all the can light fixtures that are affected. I wonder if that is necessary?

[Dianna Burley]

Originally Posted by belliott

Yeah and Inspectors like us take forever to do reports ,so it is a trade off.

If you are a newer Inspector take 8 hours to do the reports and you will find it a great educational experience as you look up all this stuff and start filing it.
I am fast with info often because of the importance I place on storing files.

I am going on my 8th year inspecting and have never run across this situation. And I do know what it feels like to spend hours writing a report.

[Jeffrey R. Jonas]

Originally Posted by mboyett

Dianna, the TREC SOP certainly doesn't require you to remove or verify lamp wattages or bulb suitability. If I were a betting person, I'd more suspect a prior improper flood lamp had caused the burn marks and the Seller or someone had subsequently installed fluorescent curly-ques. If the lights worked properly at the time at the time of the inspection then you've met your minimum requirements. Now, you may very well want to exceed those standards and you may also want to participate in some retribution but there's no requirement that you do so, in my opinion.

Exactly. Was there a date on the scorch marks? The marks could be from an improper bilb installed 5 years ago, who knows! I comment if the fixture 'currently' has improper style bulbs, or if the scorch marks are obvious and observed.

[Michael R. Boyett]

Originally Posted by dburley

I don't know if the contractor is advising her to replace all the can light fixtures that are affected. I wonder if that is necessary?

I would not take the word of a remodeler/contractor/handyman....only a licensed master electrician and then only with a grain of salt.

[Dianna Burley]

So my next question, for future inspections, has to do with CFL's rated specifically for recessed lighting. Aren't there only certain CFL's that can be used? If so, what will happen if the wrong CFL is used? Will it create scorching in the fixture?

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by dburley

I am going on my 8th year inspecting and have never run across this situation. And I do know what it feels like to spend hours writing a report.

OK ,just noticed it was your first post so welcome to the club.
Mine take longer all the time as the reward for knowledge is more work it seems.

Now I had to go and see your website.
Texas Association of Real Estate Inspectors, 2010 Inspector of the Year(nice)

[Wayne B. Wilson]

Mini florescent would not cause the burn marks

[Michael R. Boyett]

Originally Posted by dburley

If so, what will happen if the wrong CFL is used? Will it create scorching in the fixture?

GE states:

Can I use a compact fluorescent light bulb in an enclosed light fixture?
Compact fluorescent light bulbs may generally be used in enclosed fixtures as long as the enclosed fixture is not recessed. Totally enclosed recessed fixtures (for example, a ceiling can light with a cover over the bulb) create temperatures that are too high to allow the use of a compact fluorescent bulb.

So, as long as the bottom is open then I'm sure there are certain CFL's that will work. Probably not all CFL's however. I think I shall draft a new "standard comment" to address this

I also know, from experience, that some of the "PAR shaped" CFL's in recessed lights take a very long time to come up to full brightness. I turned the lights on in a Dining Room not long ago and the CFL's came on at about 20% brightness (almost unusable) and did not reach full brightness for 5-6 minutes.

[Dianna Burley]

I'm not sure that the re-modeler is licensed....but am sure that there is NO licensed electrician involved.

[Dianna Burley]

Mike,
I think that I may borrow from you and also draft a new standard comment. Great idea.