FLORIDA legislation input needed

[Eric C. Van De Ven]

Originally Posted by rhensel

William I love the thoughts and input. Your thoughts and complaints are the same as mine and that is the EXACT reason for this thread. To get the input and thoughts of others to determine the census of the inspectors to determine the path of the profession.

Yours and ALL post will be read and then we will talk about them and then decide on an action to do.

As far as hitting Tallahasee, I drove there with Preston halstead and John Shishilla and it is a haul. But to cure that I thought, why not get two or more busses, one going up I75 and the other down I95 and pick people up and have a party bus there and back....Make it fun and productive. That is just my idea and it may be right or wrong, but at least its an idea and would love to hear others.

A party bus?
Last party bus I went on was to Fantasy Fest in the Keys.
One suggestion, no alcohol!!

[Michael J. Meeker]

How would you all party then

[Eric C. Van De Ven]

Originally Posted by mmeeker

How would you all party then

Speaking of drinking Mike, from one of the 1802 form discussions:

September 30, 2011
Mr. Mike Milnes
Deputy Director
Bureau of Product Review
Office of Insurance Regulation
300 East Gaines Street
Tallahassee, FL 32399-0350
RE: September 20, 2011 Hearing on Mitigation Verification Inspection Form
Dear Mike:
During the September 20 hearing, you raised specifically the issue of whether the safety of building
inspectors might be jeopardized through the photo requirements which have been in OIR Form B1-
1802 for some time. An association representing inspectors stated that it is common for inspectors to
injure themselves climbing into an attic or suffer from the extreme heat they will encounter up there.
You heard from several building inspectors that safety is not really an issue; photos in attic spaces
can be safely taken in the overwhelmingly majority of cases and when there is a problem, entry can
be made through the roof.
We also believe inspectors can safely secure photos. It is the Florida Insurance Council’s firm belief
that the requirement of photographs of mitigation features and other documentation supporting
findings in the mitigation verification form is possibly the single most important step to strengthen
OIR-B1-1802 implemented during the last two or three years of rule-making on the form. An inspector
cannot certify that mitigation features are in place in an attic without going into the area and providing
the photo documentation.
FIC continues to support photo requirements and other documentation requirements in the form.
We appreciate the Office’s hard work to develop a complete, accurate and effective mitigation
verification inspection form.
Sam Miller
Executive Vice President
Florida Insurance Council

[Michael J. Meeker]

Well at least I will remember the idiots name whenever it comes up.

Sam Miller
Sam Miller
Sam Miller

That is it. It should stay in my head now

Now time to look up Florida Insurance Council.

[Michael J. Meeker]

Welcome to the Florida Insurance Council’s website. The Council has been covering Florida insurance matters since 1962. As Florida’s largest insurance trade association, FIC is the voice of Florida’s insurance community. We’re committed to providing consumers, media, and public officials with information that’s pertinent and real-time.

Gee who's side do you think they are on ?

It is hard to believe that the folks at the OIR are foolish enough to even take their opinion

[William C. Chandler]

Thanks, Russell. I knew you would get it. I love the bus idea but I think we need to organize some thoughts on paper first (otherwise they may call in the Guard). I think we should offer a free inspection of the Governor's mansion to highlight our trade or the old Capitol Building or both. Or maybe even, offer 40 free home inspections for the elderly or poor. I would love to see this type of coordinated effort. Even gives us an excuse to make up some cool hats or Tshirts! I'm sure we can get some legislators to help and maybe even the OIR - free wind mits for the poor. We could periodically do this across the state. Wouldn't take long and Tallahassee would be asking "what can we do for you?". No lobbyist required! I'm all in - anybody else?

[Michael J. Meeker]

I just sent mike an email of my own.
I KNOW IT WILL DO NOT GOOD. BUT HEY I TRIED.


Mr. Milnes,

Below in red is an old email I came across. I just hope you are aware that this individual is not an inspector and is only looking out for what he feels is best for the insurance companies.

The practice of requiring photos of items that are not VISIBLE or ACCESABLE is a deadly practice. Someone will get killed trying to provide photos of things that do not matter. Trying to find a shiner which by code should not exist can be extremely dangerous in an area the is not designed to move about in. Photographing marks on trusses mean absolutely nothing as the metal detector beeps on any and all metal. The act of trying to get a couple trusses in a frame can be equally deadly as when in attic our main concern should be safety. Before pictures were required I verified the presence of clips, wraps, etc… with the use of a monocular. Trying to get close enough to get a shot of that is very hard maybe 50% of the time. The angles are tough and the low light and how far the flash works can make it darn near impossible. Please if you ever get the chance to remove these requirements do so. They are not needed and someday someone will die as many have already been injured. I doubt you would want to think someone died trying to photograph a nail with a ruler next to it when they could easily identify the nail from the safety of the hatch. Most items can be verified safely from the hatch if photos were not required.
Also a great many folks seem to just use pictures from other inspections when they are not able to photograph items that they know exist. This practice of requiring photos is causing the fraud it was supposed to fight. It is my opinion that the OIR should be regulating the insurance companies but it seems the insurance companies tell the OIR what should be done. It reminds me of the fox guarding the henhouse. It just is not right. Safety of those inspecting and trying to protect the homeowners property should be a major concern of the OIR not something that should just be dismissed.

Thanks for taking the time to read this letter,
Michael J. Meeker
Meeker Industries, Inc.
954-922-0584
mike@meekerindustries.com

September 30, 2011
Mr. Mike Milnes
Deputy Director
Bureau of Product Review
Office of Insurance Regulation
300 East Gaines Street
Tallahassee, FL 32399-0350
RE: September 20, 2011 Hearing on Mitigation Verification Inspection Form
Dear Mike:
During the September 20 hearing, you raised specifically the issue of whether the safety of building
inspectors might be jeopardized through the photo requirements which have been in OIR Form B1-
1802 for some time. An association representing inspectors stated that it is common for inspectors to
injure themselves climbing into an attic or suffer from the extreme heat they will encounter up there.
You heard from several building inspectors that safety is not really an issue; photos in attic spaces
can be safely taken in the overwhelmingly majority of cases and when there is a problem, entry can
be made through the roof.
We also believe inspectors can safely secure photos. It is the Florida Insurance Council’s firm belief
that the requirement of photographs of mitigation features and other documentation supporting
findings in the mitigation verification form is possibly the single most important step to strengthen
OIR-B1-1802 implemented during the last two or three years of rule-making on the form. An inspector
cannot certify that mitigation features are in place in an attic without going into the area and providing
the photo documentation.
FIC continues to support photo requirements and other documentation requirements in the form.
We appreciate the Office’s hard work to develop a complete, accurate and effective mitigation
verification inspection form.
Sam Miller
Executive Vice President
Florida Insurance Council

[Tim Lewis]

I have been reading this message board for sometime trying to figure out if this is a field I wish to pursue and I just cant figure out why you all arent falling over yourself to have a lobbiest to help you protect your interest. Mr. Meeker you seem to be one of the most vocal about issues you think arent right so why would you not want someone to help to protect your interest? Mr.Hensel I commend you for your passion to preserve the rights of your profession.

[Eric C. Van De Ven]

Originally Posted by Tim Lewis

I have been reading this message board for sometime trying to figure out if this is a field I wish to pursue and I just cant figure out why you all arent falling over yourself to have a lobbiest to help you protect your interest. Mr. Meeker you seem to be one of the most vocal about issues you think arent right so why would you not want someone to help to protect your interest? Mr.Hensel I commend you for your passion to preserve the rights of your profession.

We have had a lobbyist.......and you can see just how much has been accomplished:
The worst home inspection licensing law in the country.
No SoP
No COE

What we need is unity, but that probably won't ever happen. Most inspectors became inspectors to run their own businesses. To be independent of others.

[Michael J. Meeker]

Tim those seeking representation do not have the same concerns as I do. I cannot join a group that wishes to stop me from doing all I am legally and licensed to do. They also want the same rights and privileges I as a Florida Licensed General Contractor has earned. They simply do not have the same qualifications General Contractors have and therefor should NOT have the same rights and privileges. I am not much of a joiner anyhow and am surprised i even joined this org. I do not feel the way to succeed is to stop the competition from doing what I do or what I see as competition. I believe we have the right to do and offer all that our licenses say we can do and offer. A great many in this org only want what is best for those who only hold one license and that is the Florida home inspector license.

I hope that cleared up my feelings and actions for you. Good luck.

I guess I joined here for the outstanding educational opportunities and not the camaraderie.

[Russell J. Hensel]

Mr. Lewis thank you and it will become unified, I am sure of it. People just want to start seeing results, can you blame them? It will happen, the right people are now passionatly working on this through different ideas and different people at the helm.

As far as Inspectors wanting to infiltrate another professional area. I think I can speak for most of the industry in saying we do not want to construct anything. We do not want to build anything. We want our profession to do as it states, INSPECT. They are two different professions and need to be treated as such. It is that easy.