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  #1  
Old 4/17/13, 10:53 PM
Wayne Collier's Avatar
Wayne Collier Wayne Collier is offline
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Default Opening Protection

Opening protection installed inside the window well. Can't recall seeing this anywhere before. Anyone know if this would get kicked back and have documentation noting yay or nay?



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  #2  
Old 4/17/13, 11:02 PM
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Humberto Carvajal Humberto Carvajal is offline
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Default Re: Opening Protection

I've seen it done with plywood before. I'm only guessing here Wayne but if it's allowed with wood I can't see why it wouldn't be in your case. I've even seen the protection on the inside of the home before in the case where they have wrought iron bars.


Bert





Humberto Carvajal Jr.
Florida State Property Inspections, LLC
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  #3  
Old 4/17/13, 11:09 PM
Kevin House Kevin House is offline
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Default Re: Opening Protection

Wayne,
After the code change in 2001, one distributor in Lee County sold some that met the and they had the 1/4 inch removable bolts (F track) on the top and bottom. It met the FBC I'm pretty sure.

But it did put all of the load onto the window (which doesn't seem as strong as the outside mount).

The shutter distributor here, (Town & Country) sells the U track like is shown in your photo.
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  #4  
Old 4/17/13, 11:12 PM
Wayne Collier's Avatar
Wayne Collier Wayne Collier is offline
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Default Re: Opening Protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcarvajal View Post
I've seen it done with plywood before. I'm only guessing here Wayne but if it's allowed with wood I can't see why it wouldn't be in your case. I've even seen the protection on the inside of the home before in the case where they have wrought iron bars.


Bert
That's where the confusion comes in, we know it must be anchored to the home but does inside the well qualify? Those plywood clips you buy at the hardware store are a no go.



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  #5  
Old 4/17/13, 11:16 PM
Wayne Collier's Avatar
Wayne Collier Wayne Collier is offline
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Default Re: Opening Protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by khouse1 View Post
Wayne,
After the code change in 2001, one distributor in Lee County sold some that met the and they had the 1/4 inch removable bolts (F track) on the top and bottom. It met the FBC I'm pretty sure.

But it did put all of the load onto the window (which doesn't seem as strong as the outside mount).

The shutter distributor here, (Town & Country) sells the U track like is shown in your photo.
That's one of my arguments also is the load on the actual window. There has to be a written standard somewhere. Homeowner said the county building dept signed off on the final. What do they know? this was in 2005 and 12,000 dollars of metal track. I think they got hosed personally. If it's to insurance standards I am fine with it just want some clarification.



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  #6  
Old 4/17/13, 11:50 PM
Kevin House Kevin House is offline
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Default Re: Opening Protection

Wayne,

I'm pretty sure those are OK; T&C sells different ones and they have a spec sheet that meets the FBC.

Here is one sheet:
http://www.floridabuilding.org/uploa...24_drawing.pdf
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  #7  
Old 4/18/13, 12:05 AM
Wayne Collier's Avatar
Wayne Collier Wayne Collier is offline
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Default Re: Opening Protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by khouse1 View Post
Wayne,

I'm pretty sure those are OK; T&C sells different ones and they have a spec sheet that meets the FBC.

Here is one sheet:
http://www.floridabuilding.org/uploa...24_drawing.pdf

Thanks, I see the inside diagram



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  #8  
Old 4/18/13, 9:45 AM
Bradley K. Toye Bradley K. Toye is online now
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Default Re: Opening Protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by wcollier View Post
Thanks, I see the inside diagram
You should be able to verify that installation with the correct drawing for that particular product. I have not seen one yet approved for inside the opening, and I don't see one in those drawings for the Steel Panels either. Some have a min distance between the panel and the glazing such as 4". Could be an issue for an auditor that knows what he is doing, so I would do a bit more reseach on them.
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  #9  
Old 4/18/13, 11:23 PM
Kevin House Kevin House is offline
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Default Opening Protection

The sheet above shows approval for an inside opening like many since 2002.
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  #10  
Old 4/19/13, 12:00 AM
Bradley K. Toye Bradley K. Toye is online now
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Default Re: Opening Protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by khouse1 View Post
The sheet above shows approval for an inside opening like many since 2002.
I stand corrected...didn't zoom out the page. However, that installation sheet doesn't work for the target product in the first post.
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  #11  
Old 4/19/13, 10:46 AM
sharding sharding is offline
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Default Re: Opening Protection

Wayne, your job is not to be a city or county inspector. They are the ones who look at the product approval. If the window protection is present, you call it out that way. In truth it can be installed inside the opening, subject to the anchors being a minimum distance from the edge, (and that varies depending on the substrate) and the panel being a minimum distance from the glass. We are not there to approve the installation, as that is not part of an inspection.
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  #12  
Old 4/19/13, 4:59 PM
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Wayne Collier Wayne Collier is offline
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Default Re: Opening Protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharding View Post
Wayne, your job is not to be a city or county inspector. They are the ones who look at the product approval. If the window protection is present, you call it out that way. In truth it can be installed inside the opening, subject to the anchors being a minimum distance from the edge, (and that varies depending on the substrate) and the panel being a minimum distance from the glass. We are not there to approve the installation, as that is not part of an inspection.
As a home inspector you should know something about what you are reporting. Product approval? when was the last time you did a wind mit? we look for product approval many times a day. For your info non member I gave her the credit. All you had to say was in your experience and maybe provide something to back it up. You instead attack my reporting as if you have seen it. GFY



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  #13  
Old 4/19/13, 6:46 PM
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Jay C. Murray Jay C. Murray is offline
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Default Re: Opening Protection

As long as it covers the opening and is attached to structure and not the window itself, it should be acceptable. If anyone knows otherwise, I would like to be informed. It is certainly acceptable if the product approval docs approve that for of installation.



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Jay C. Murray
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Serving Port St. Lucie, Ft. Pierce, Stuart, Palm City, Jensen Beach,
The Palm Beaches, & The Treasure Coast

Last edited by jmurray4; 4/19/13 at 7:00 PM..
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  #14  
Old 4/19/13, 6:59 PM
Jay C. Murray's Avatar
Jay C. Murray Jay C. Murray is offline
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Default Re: Opening Protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharding View Post
Wayne, your job is not to be a city or county inspector. They are the ones who look at the product approval. If the window protection is present, you call it out that way. In truth it can be installed inside the opening, subject to the anchors being a minimum distance from the edge, (and that varies depending on the substrate) and the panel being a minimum distance from the glass. We are not there to approve the installation, as that is not part of an inspection.
Sharding,

I hate to pile on, especially when Wayne did such an excellent job.

But seriously, we are talking about wind mitigation inspections specifically. If you are a real inspector, you will need to understand why such questions are so important. It's not that Wayne needs 'help'. We are all trying to better educate and prepare NACHI inspector by posing any kind of unusual situation or condition.

If you are an inspector or want to be an inspector, you better start paying attention. Wind mitigation will make you or break you. Based on your comments you need some education regard insurance inspections.



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Jay C. Murray
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Licensed General Contractor & Home Inspector
Serving Port St. Lucie, Ft. Pierce, Stuart, Palm City, Jensen Beach,
The Palm Beaches, & The Treasure Coast
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  #15  
Old 4/22/13, 9:50 AM
sharding sharding is offline
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Default Re: Opening Protection

Wayne, try reading my answer. I said you can install panels inside the opening. I also said it was not part of the inspection to look AT the product approval. But while we are on that subject, if you did look AT the product approval you would see if that particular panel can be installed as in the picture. My point was that it is not part of the inspection to second guess an installation. You have to make sure it has an approval not that the installation is done in accordance with that approval.
Jay, I'm well aware what we are writing about. I said you do not have to look at the approval, (to see that the installation complies), just make sure that it has one!
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