stab lok

[Kenneth Dolin]

So aside from the ongoing contention about Federal Pacific Stab Lok panels. Is there any mandate that you are aware of from Citizens denying coverage if a home is equipped with one?
I had a customer that was denied renters insurance with one company due to a condo with a stab lok.
Another home I had made the customer pay a Higher premium.
any experience with this? so as to better advise the customers?

[Michael J. Meeker]

I have heard similar things

[Eric C. Van De Ven]

Originally Posted by kdolin

So aside from the ongoing contention about Federal Pacific Stab Lok panels. Is there any mandate that you are aware of from Citizens denying coverage if a home is equipped with one?
I had a customer that was denied renters insurance with one company due to a condo with a stab lok.
Another home I had made the customer pay a Higher premium.
any experience with this? so as to better advise the customers?

I have seen it firsthand. Several of my Clients have had to change the service panels or lose their insurance. Citizens gave them 90 days to correct the issue.

I put on all of my reports where the home has a FP panel, insurance may be difficult to obtain, and the issue should be resolved prior to purchase.

[Richard Murphy]

I have had several clients over the years that have had FPE panels been required by Citizens to change their panel. However, an agent forwarded me an email from underwriting that said:

For now, FPE panels in good working order and free of defect are insurable. Note that if the inspector highlights its presence as a potential hazard, it will be treated accordingly. However; in this case, the damaged and/or deteriorating roof renders the risk uninsurable. The roof would have to be repaired prior to binding. We cannot accept any risk with any defects or deficiencies to the roofing, electrical, plumbing and/or HVAC systems.

Thanks.

Bill ******
Technical Underwriting Specialist, Personal Lines
Citizens Property Insurance Corporation

So, it appears to be a case of who you speak with, and maybe, how they are feeling that day.

[Michael J. Meeker]

Originally Posted by rmurphy1

So, it appears to be a case of who you speak with, and maybe, how they are feeling that day.

That is the problem with them and the agents that sell them

Not kidding.

They make the crap up as they go.

[Greg Pownall]

I've had maybe 3 Stab Loks this year,called them out, but yesterday I came across a different looking FP panel. I assume ALL FP panels are to be called out ? I need to write this up this morning. There was one tapped wire that was burnt and crispy........

[Eric C. Van De Ven]

Originally Posted by gpownall

I've had maybe 3 Stab Loks this year,called them out, but yesterday I came across a different looking FP panel. I assume ALL FP panels are to be called out ? I need to write this up this morning. There was one tapped wire that was burnt and crispy........

I am assuming it was one of the older black breakers?

[Joe Farsetta]

Perhaps whatever is left of Federal Pacific as a company (I heard that it exists in a lawyer's office in New Jersey) threatened Citizens with a hefty lawsuit. All court records on litigation regarding Federal Pacific have been sealed, including a big one for FP's violation of the Consumer Fraud Act of New Jersey three years ago. Even the attorney from the winning side stated that the true facts will NEVER be revealed, and shared a limited amount of data with me. He cautioned me against repeating what was discussed, and I never have.

Hence, Citizens apparent change of heart. They dont want conjecture. Just look at the panel and comment on its condition, not the manufacturer or product.

Make sense now?

[Eric C. Van De Ven]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Perhaps whatever is left of Federal Pacific as a company (I heard that it exists in a lawyer's office in New Jersey) threatened Citizens with a hefty lawsuit. All court records on litigation regarding Federal Pacific have been sealed, including a big one for FP's violation of the Consumer Fraud Act of New Jersey three years ago. Even the attorney from the winning side stated that the true facts will NEVER be revealed, and shared a limited amount of data with me. He cautioned me against repeating what was discussed, and I never have.

Hence, Citizens apparent change of heart. They dont want conjecture. Just look at the panel and comment on its condition, not the manufacturer or product.

Make sense now?

In my opinion, citizens nor any other insurance company has the right or authority to make you change anything on your home, provided that the item(s) in question were code compliant when the home was built. Your insurance premium is based on the rebuild cost of your home. How many homes have actually required complete rebuilding?

In effect, Citizens and others are over-writing the existing building code.
Which is clearly out of the scope of any insurance license.

[Michael C. Wagner]

Originally Posted by kdolin

Is there any mandate that you are aware of from Citizens denying coverage if a home is equipped with one?

There is nothing specifically mentioning Stab-lok panels in their Underwriting Manuals (that I could find)...

https://www.citizensfla.com/agent/um_personallines.cfm

[Joe Farsetta]

Once again Eric is spot-on

[John Gromkoski]

Had a past client write me the other day because his insurance company (don't know who) asked him to get an inspection and certification by a licensed electrician that the electrical system was safe because the old FP panels were used as a junction box, no breakers whatsoever!

[John Shishilla]

Originally Posted by evandeven

In my opinion, citizens nor any other insurance company has the right or authority to make you change anything on your home, provided that the item(s) in question were code compliant when the home was built. Your insurance premium is based on the rebuild cost of your home. How many homes have actually required complete rebuilding?

In effect, Citizens and others are over-writing the existing building code.
Which is clearly out of the scope of any insurance license.

You are correct they can not make you change anything on your home. They do have the right not to insure your home also. We think we can force any company to take a risk, and that is just not the case. For example they do not tell you what roof to walk on, do they. You have the right to walk away and so do they, before the policy is signed. Everyone seems to forget insurance is about statistics, if they notice a poorly kept yard/roof it is more likely to have other issues and then more likely to have a claim. Understanding that those statistics may not be directly related, because a house has a older panel, MAY indicate lesser updates and a greater risk.

[Eric C. Van De Ven]

Originally Posted by jshishilla

You are correct they can not make you change anything on your home. They do have the right not to insure your home also. We think we can force any company to take a risk, and that is just not the case. For example they do not tell you what roof to walk on, do they. You have the right to walk away and so do they, before the policy is signed. Everyone seems to forget insurance is about statistics, if they notice a poorly kept yard/roof it is more likely to have other issues and then more likely to have a claim. Understanding that those statistics may not be directly related, because a house has a older panel, MAY indicate lesser updates and a greater risk.

I can agree with that to a point, except for one little detail.
If you have a mortgage, you are required to carry homeowners insurance.
See the problem now?

That little clause give the insurance company the right, well, maybe not the right, the ability would be a better term, to legally extort money from you. Either upgrade your home or we will charge you more money, even though, only a handful of homes have actually had to be rebuilt due to this particular issue.

Here is one thought, which I have brought up many times, If the bank owns your home until you pay off the loan, why should you have to pay the insurance?
If banks had to pay the insurance, I assure you, it would be a yearly flat rate! And, a minimal one at that!

[Michael J. Meeker]

Then I would get the shaft because I own my home and would not get the same rates as the banks.


wE WILL NEVER WIN big MONEY MAKES THE DECISIONS WE ALL HAVE TO LIVE BY.

iF WE BECOME BIG MONEY THEN WE CAN MAKE THE DECISIONS. gOOD LUCK TO ALL OF US IN DOING SO

Heck, I can't even type I have no shot for sure.