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  #1  
Old 10/8/12, 2:12 PM
Kenneth Dolin's Avatar
Kenneth Dolin Kenneth Dolin is offline
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Default stab lok

So aside from the ongoing contention about Federal Pacific Stab Lok panels. Is there any mandate that you are aware of from Citizens denying coverage if a home is equipped with one?
I had a customer that was denied renters insurance with one company due to a condo with a stab lok.
Another home I had made the customer pay a Higher premium.
any experience with this? so as to better advise the customers?



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  #2  
Old 10/8/12, 3:36 PM
Michael J. Meeker, CMI's Avatar
Michael J. Meeker, CMI Michael J. Meeker, CMI is offline
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Default Re: stab lok

I have heard similar things





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  #3  
Old 10/8/12, 3:40 PM
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Eric C. Van De Ven Eric C. Van De Ven is offline
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Default Re: stab lok

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdolin View Post
So aside from the ongoing contention about Federal Pacific Stab Lok panels. Is there any mandate that you are aware of from Citizens denying coverage if a home is equipped with one?
I had a customer that was denied renters insurance with one company due to a condo with a stab lok.
Another home I had made the customer pay a Higher premium.
any experience with this? so as to better advise the customers?
I have seen it firsthand. Several of my Clients have had to change the service panels or lose their insurance. Citizens gave them 90 days to correct the issue.

I put on all of my reports where the home has a FP panel, insurance may be difficult to obtain, and the issue should be resolved prior to purchase.



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  #4  
Old 10/8/12, 9:30 PM
Richard Murphy Richard Murphy is offline
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Default Re: stab lok

I have had several clients over the years that have had FPE panels been required by Citizens to change their panel. However, an agent forwarded me an email from underwriting that said:

For now, FPE panels in good working order and free of defect are insurable. Note that if the inspector highlights its presence as a potential hazard, it will be treated accordingly. However; in this case, the damaged and/or deteriorating roof renders the risk uninsurable. The roof would have to be repaired prior to binding. We cannot accept any risk with any defects or deficiencies to the roofing, electrical, plumbing and/or HVAC systems.

Thanks.

Bill ******
Technical Underwriting Specialist, Personal Lines
Citizens Property Insurance Corporation

So, it appears to be a case of who you speak with, and maybe, how they are feeling that day.
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  #5  
Old 10/8/12, 9:35 PM
Michael J. Meeker, CMI's Avatar
Michael J. Meeker, CMI Michael J. Meeker, CMI is offline
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Default Re: stab lok

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmurphy1 View Post
So, it appears to be a case of who you speak with, and maybe, how they are feeling that day.
That is the problem with them and the agents that sell them

Not kidding.

They make the crap up as they go.





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  #6  
Old 10/9/12, 6:47 AM
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Default Re: stab lok

I've had maybe 3 Stab Loks this year,called them out, but yesterday I came across a different looking FP panel. I assume ALL FP panels are to be called out ? I need to write this up this morning. There was one tapped wire that was burnt and crispy........

Last edited by gpownall; 10/9/12 at 6:59 AM..
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  #7  
Old 10/9/12, 7:01 AM
Eric C. Van De Ven's Avatar
Eric C. Van De Ven Eric C. Van De Ven is offline
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Default Re: stab lok

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpownall View Post
I've had maybe 3 Stab Loks this year,called them out, but yesterday I came across a different looking FP panel. I assume ALL FP panels are to be called out ? I need to write this up this morning. There was one tapped wire that was burnt and crispy........
I am assuming it was one of the older black breakers?



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  #8  
Old 10/9/12, 8:50 AM
Joe Farsetta's Avatar
Joe Farsetta Joe Farsetta is offline
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Default Re: stab lok

Perhaps whatever is left of Federal Pacific as a company (I heard that it exists in a lawyer's office in New Jersey) threatened Citizens with a hefty lawsuit. All court records on litigation regarding Federal Pacific have been sealed, including a big one for FP's violation of the Consumer Fraud Act of New Jersey three years ago. Even the attorney from the winning side stated that the true facts will NEVER be revealed, and shared a limited amount of data with me. He cautioned me against repeating what was discussed, and I never have.

Hence, Citizens apparent change of heart. They dont want conjecture. Just look at the panel and comment on its condition, not the manufacturer or product.

Make sense now?
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  #9  
Old 10/9/12, 8:57 AM
Eric C. Van De Ven's Avatar
Eric C. Van De Ven Eric C. Van De Ven is offline
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Default Re: stab lok

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfarsetta View Post
Perhaps whatever is left of Federal Pacific as a company (I heard that it exists in a lawyer's office in New Jersey) threatened Citizens with a hefty lawsuit. All court records on litigation regarding Federal Pacific have been sealed, including a big one for FP's violation of the Consumer Fraud Act of New Jersey three years ago. Even the attorney from the winning side stated that the true facts will NEVER be revealed, and shared a limited amount of data with me. He cautioned me against repeating what was discussed, and I never have.

Hence, Citizens apparent change of heart. They dont want conjecture. Just look at the panel and comment on its condition, not the manufacturer or product.

Make sense now?
In my opinion, citizens nor any other insurance company has the right or authority to make you change anything on your home, provided that the item(s) in question were code compliant when the home was built. Your insurance premium is based on the rebuild cost of your home. How many homes have actually required complete rebuilding?

In effect, Citizens and others are over-writing the existing building code.
Which is clearly out of the scope of any insurance license.



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  #10  
Old 10/9/12, 9:09 AM
Michael C. Wagner's Avatar
Michael C. Wagner Michael C. Wagner is offline
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Default Re: stab lok

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdolin View Post
Is there any mandate that you are aware of from Citizens denying coverage if a home is equipped with one?
There is nothing specifically mentioning Stab-lok panels in their Underwriting Manuals (that I could find)...

https://www.citizensfla.com/agent/um_personallines.cfm
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  #11  
Old 10/9/12, 11:01 AM
Joe Farsetta's Avatar
Joe Farsetta Joe Farsetta is offline
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Default Re: stab lok

Once again Eric is spot-on
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  #12  
Old 10/9/12, 11:11 AM
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Default Re: stab lok

Had a past client write me the other day because his insurance company (don't know who) asked him to get an inspection and certification by a licensed electrician that the electrical system was safe because the old FP panels were used as a junction box, no breakers whatsoever!




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  #13  
Old 10/9/12, 11:21 AM
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John Shishilla, CMI John Shishilla, CMI is offline
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Default Re: stab lok

Quote:
Originally Posted by evandeven View Post
In my opinion, citizens nor any other insurance company has the right or authority to make you change anything on your home, provided that the item(s) in question were code compliant when the home was built. Your insurance premium is based on the rebuild cost of your home. How many homes have actually required complete rebuilding?

In effect, Citizens and others are over-writing the existing building code.
Which is clearly out of the scope of any insurance license.
You are correct they can not make you change anything on your home. They do have the right not to insure your home also. We think we can force any company to take a risk, and that is just not the case. For example they do not tell you what roof to walk on, do they. You have the right to walk away and so do they, before the policy is signed. Everyone seems to forget insurance is about statistics, if they notice a poorly kept yard/roof it is more likely to have other issues and then more likely to have a claim. Understanding that those statistics may not be directly related, because a house has a older panel, MAY indicate lesser updates and a greater risk.



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  #14  
Old 10/9/12, 11:29 AM
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Eric C. Van De Ven Eric C. Van De Ven is offline
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Default Re: stab lok

Quote:
Originally Posted by jshishilla View Post
You are correct they can not make you change anything on your home. They do have the right not to insure your home also. We think we can force any company to take a risk, and that is just not the case. For example they do not tell you what roof to walk on, do they. You have the right to walk away and so do they, before the policy is signed. Everyone seems to forget insurance is about statistics, if they notice a poorly kept yard/roof it is more likely to have other issues and then more likely to have a claim. Understanding that those statistics may not be directly related, because a house has a older panel, MAY indicate lesser updates and a greater risk.
I can agree with that to a point, except for one little detail.
If you have a mortgage, you are required to carry homeowners insurance.
See the problem now?

That little clause give the insurance company the right, well, maybe not the right, the ability would be a better term, to legally extort money from you. Either upgrade your home or we will charge you more money, even though, only a handful of homes have actually had to be rebuilt due to this particular issue.

Here is one thought, which I have brought up many times, If the bank owns your home until you pay off the loan, why should you have to pay the insurance?
If banks had to pay the insurance, I assure you, it would be a yearly flat rate! And, a minimal one at that!



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  #15  
Old 10/9/12, 2:10 PM
Michael J. Meeker, CMI's Avatar
Michael J. Meeker, CMI Michael J. Meeker, CMI is offline
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Default Re: stab lok

Then I would get the shaft because I own my home and would not get the same rates as the banks.


wE WILL NEVER WIN big MONEY MAKES THE DECISIONS WE ALL HAVE TO LIVE BY.

iF WE BECOME BIG MONEY THEN WE CAN MAKE THE DECISIONS. gOOD LUCK TO ALL OF US IN DOING SO

Heck, I can't even type I have no shot for sure.





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