SOP

[Alfred L. Pelletier]

The SOP needs to be looked at very careful some areas are inviting a possible lawyers advantage on what he can bring on a serious law suit. When you enter an attic insulation should not be disturb or on entering if floor decking is not down inspectors should not be crawling into these attics. I do not care what inspectors are going to say, I have been doing this for years and I'm not afraid of going in attics. Well guess what! You better start thinking what you are saying because your job is not to disturb someones attic that cost them plenty to have insulation installed in the attic. What I'm trying to say is this SOP NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT WITH A MAGNIFYING GLASS.

[David A. Andersen]

The "General Exclusions" (prior to what is to be inspected-reported) usually covers this. It is up to the Inspector to get out that magnifying glass for themselves.

3. Enter any area or perform any procedure that may damage the property or its components or be dangerous to or adversely affect the health or safety of the home inspector or other persons;

This is from my State SOP listed as #3 at the beginning of it all...

This sets the stage for the inspection. If you don't know that you have no right or obligation to do anything on the property that may alter it, you got trouble.

This goes for sticking things in rotten wood, breaking branches off bushes to get into electrical boxes, opening painted electrical panels etc...

It does not preclude you from not reporting on the conditions from that point of view and it does not require "further investigation". That is up to the client to decide.

[Eric C. Van De Ven]

Originally Posted by dandersen

The "General Exclusions" (prior to what is to be inspected-reported) usually covers this. It is up to the Inspector to get out that magnifying glass for themselves.



This is from my State SOP listed as #3 at the beginning of it all...

This sets the stage for the inspection. If you don't know that you have no right or obligation to do anything on the property that may alter it, you got trouble.

This goes for sticking things in rotten wood, breaking branches off bushes to get into electrical boxes, opening painted electrical panels etc...

It does not preclude you from not reporting on the conditions from that point of view and it does not require "further investigation". That is up to the client to decide.

David,
I believe he is referring to the new SoPs that the State of Florida has introduced.
And this is what he is referring to:

(3) The inspector is not required to enter or traverse any under-floor crawl space or attic, if in the opinion of the inspector:
(a) An unsafe or unsanitary condition exists.
(b) Enter areas in which inadequate clearance exists to allow the inspector safe entering or traversing.
(c) The potential exists to cause damage to insulation, ductwork, other components or stored items.

Since the "potential" exists to damage anything if you are in a distance from it to damage it, then, nothing will be inspected.

[Alfred L. Pelletier]

Thanks Eric!

[Eric C. Van De Ven]

Originally Posted by evandeven

David,
I believe he is referring to the new SoPs that the State of Florida has introduced.
And this is what he is referring to:

(3) The inspector is not required to enter or traverse any under-floor crawl space or attic, if in the opinion of the inspector:
(a) An unsafe or unsanitary condition exists.
(b) Enter areas in which inadequate clearance exists to allow the inspector safe entering or traversing.
(c) The potential exists to cause damage to insulation, ductwork, other components or stored items.

Since the "potential" exists to damage anything if you are in a distance from it to damage it, then, nothing will be inspected.

To go back to what I have said before, "not required" doesn't mean "can't".

I think a lot are making much more of this than there is.
I sincerely doubt that there will be any repercussions for disturbing a little insulation in an attic. If you start smashing things in the house.....that is a little different!

[Alfred L. Pelletier]

Absolutely Eric,
But this is the time to lay the cards on the table. I have seen ducts disturb, insulation, and personal property moved around also radiant barriers torn and not put back by inspectors. Not to say it is all the inspectors fault, it is the insurance companies who do not care as long as they get the information they want. It is all about dollars $.

[Eric C. Van De Ven]

Originally Posted by apelletier

Absolutely Eric,
But this is the time to lay the cards on the table. I have seen ducts disturb, insulation, and personal property moved around also radiant barriers torn and not put back by inspectors. Not to say it is all the inspectors fault, it is the insurance companies who do not care as long as they get the information they want. It is all about dollars $.

Now you are talking about insurance inspections which even though they are being performed on a home, have no standards.

I would suspect, that one day, maybe sooner than I think, someone will file a lawsuit against an insurance company for placing an inspector in danger or a myriad of other things.
The only way to affect the insurance companies is to hit them in the bank account. Unfortunately, at least with Citizens, they have unlimited funds as well as the Governor in their pockets.

The only option is to live "within" the rules.

[Fred Sylvester]

Fred brought up a good point I think inadvertently but------what happens when one is performing a home inspection with a wind mitigation added on ? When or where does the line cross ?

[Michael J. Meeker]

Well according all but a select few it is not dangerous at all to crawl around in that crap to photograph a strap or try to find a nail. Hell everyone does it right ? No it is not right and any doing wind mits has to or their clients get screwed.

[David A. Andersen]

whoops! I wandered in to Florida territory! I try to keep away from here, as well as Texas. Too many dictators looking out for their own backside far as I'm concerned.

I follow behind energy auditors all the time who tear the living crap out of the place doing their "inspection". They created more of and energy loss doing their "audit" than what they came there for.

[Russell J. Hensel]

Originally Posted by mmeeker

Well according all but a select few it is not dangerous at all to crawl around in that crap to photograph a strap or try to find a nail. Hell everyone does it right ? No it is not right and any doing wind mits has to or their clients get screwed.

This coming from a guy who makes the owner "send" him information that he is too lazy to get. He talks about giving the client service, his lack of willingness to get the job completed properly shows who he really cares about....HIMSELF...he just wants the EASY money....

Gravy train is over with, 1/2 assed doing them are the days of old...get with the program or be gone...its that easy...

[Michael J. Meeker]

I am there to verify "their" information.
Hence the name of the report "Uniform Mitigation Verification Report"

It is the clients responsibility to have all the information they need to prove their case. Just like they do with the NOA's and such.

I will continue doing them as long as I see fit and will continue to do them the way I decide is appropriate. Just wait and see how much fun it will be with the new form. Are you going to spend a half a day on the phone with the bldg dept trying to get all the info the homeowner should have?

Yeah I am sure you will tell me you will do whatever it takes to give your client the report they deserve by choosing you. Don't forget to crawl real close to get the pictures in areas like the ones attached. I and by the way I really could not give a rats a s s how you feel about how I run my business. You worry about you and I'll worry about me

[Preston L. Halstead]

Mike, not trying to pick a fight with you but all I can say is that I have performed around 2000+ since they changed the form the last time and have had under five where I couldnt get a picture of the roof to wall(excluding no attic homes). So I dont really get it. I guess if we did it your way I could wear the same clothes all week caz they would never get dirty.........

If the call Elite Property Inspection & Management 561-420-0277 for the Wind Mitigation Inspection in Palm Beach County, Broward County, or Martin County not only do we do all permit searches but we also make sure they have all the proper pictures.

That would be the best Wind Mitigation Inspection would it not?

[Michael J. Meeker]

No that would be taking care of the clients responsibility and going above and beyond. Keep up the good work and charge accordingly.

[John Shishilla]

Originally Posted by phalstead

Mike, not trying to pick a fight with you but all I can say is that I have performed around 2000+ since they changed the form the last time and have had under five where I couldnt get a picture of the roof to wall(excluding no attic homes). So I dont really get it. I guess if we did it your way I could wear the same clothes all week caz they would never get dirty.........

If the call Elite Property Inspection & Management 561-420-0277 for the Wind Mitigation Inspection in Palm Beach County, Broward County, or Martin County not only do we do all permit searches but we also make sure they have all the proper pictures.

That would be the best Wind Mitigation Inspection would it not?

The best inspection is the one that gets done correctly and completely with one call.

The 1/2 @ssed inspector expects the client to jump through hoops that they do not understand or know where to find.