Pennsylvania law on home inspectors

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1

Originally Posted By: John McQuiggan
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I’m interested in becoming a home inspector in Pennsylvania but am frustrated by the confusion around the law. When I called the attorney general’s office for clarification, someone there referred me to the Pa. board of Realtors (?!). The person who answered the phone at the Realtors’ office told me to go to phic.info, which tells me that only ASHI and NAHI and their members are qualified to guide me through the compliance process. But I see phic referred to on this message board as a “scam.”


What's going on here? Can anyone clarify what exactly I need to do to become a home inspector (other than move to Delaware)?

2

Originally Posted By: jbushart
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A home inspector wishing to do business in the State of Pennsylvania is required to comply with The Trade Practice Act 114 of 2000, Title 68, signed into law on 10 December 2001. The governing body for this law is the Bureau of Consumer Protection * 14th Floor Strawberry Square * Harrisburg, PA 17120 * 1-800-441-2555 ,717-783-3658.


To comply, a home inspector must meet the following requirements:

Membership: Be a full member of the National Association of Certified Home Inspectors (NACHI) or another national home inspector organization as defined by the Act, or is supervised by a full member in good standing of a qualifying national home inspection association, such as NACHI, who agrees to be responsible for the home inspection report by signing the report.

Insurance: Maintain E&O insurance and general liability insurance with coverage of not less than $100,000 per occurrence and $500,000 in the aggregate and with deductibles of not more than $2,500.

Ethics and Standards: Comply with the Code of Ethics and continuing education requirements of whatever association they are a full member of.

Contracts and Reports: Prepare their contractual agreements and inspection reports in accordance with Act 114 of 2000. Must provide a written report following each inspection.

Repair Estimates: Not provide oral estimates of repair for any items noted in the inspection. Written estimates may be made a part of the report and must comply with the provisions of Act 114 of 2000.

Status Disclosure: The law requires that a written disclosure be provided to the consumer regarding the inspector?s eligibility to perform inspections in Pennsylvania.

The actual law specifies certain actions that are prohibited and details the specific requirements for disclosure, contracts and reports and should be studied by every home inspector who is or plans to be performing home inspections in the State of Pennsylvania.

--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org

3

Originally Posted By: John McQuiggan
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Thanks, James. That’s good info but it raises another question for me (two or three, really):


* Does a full member need to be physically present with the trainee inspector during each of the 100 inspections he needs, or can the full member just review the inspection report afterward?

* Would those inspections be for clients that I (the trainee) found, or would they be for the full member's clients?

* Does NACHI have some kind of program to connect trainees with full members who are willing to serve as mentors?

4

Originally Posted By: jbushart
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John,


As for the supervision of new PA inspectors and NACHI's participation in this process, your best and most up-to-date response would come from the Director of Professional Development, Joe Farsetta.

As to PA's requirement regarding whether or not the supervisor needs to be physically present during the inspection, there appears to be no requirement by the law for the supervisor to be physically present during the inspection.

--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org

5

Originally Posted By: jhagarty
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John:


Refer to Chapter 75 regarding Home Inspections.

http://www.parealtor.org/content/AssetMgmt/Legal%20Services/Laws%20&%20Regulations/Dislcosure%20-%20Inspection.pdf

PA Agreement of Sale Form A/S-2K (Page 2, Paragraph 8 )

http://www.parealtor.org/content/AssetMgmt/Standard%20Forms/PDFs/A-S-2K.pdf

To perform an Inspection and satisfy the Agreement of Sale Contingency, you must be a Full Member or Supervised by a Full Member who takes responsibility for the Inspection by signing the Report.

--
Joseph Hagarty

HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

6

Originally Posted By: John McQuiggan
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Thank you both for the information and links. Good info about application of this law is hard to come by but this thread has been very helpful.


John

7

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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does not mean that the supervisor must accompany you throughout the inspection. Our lawyers have been through this several times as there is no licensing body in PA and we wanted to be prepared to defend any NACHI member who was charged with non-compliance. No member ever has been in all the years and this reg has been in place. Anyway…


1. PA already defines the word "supervision" in other industries and does not define it as "direct supervision." For instance... a real estate broker must supervise his agents but of course doesn't accompany them to listing presentations, showings, open houses or even closings. I was a licensed REALTOR for many years, supervised by my broker, and only met him twice.

2. The word direct was removed from before the word supervision in the original proposed regulation before it was enacted.

3. If the regulation meant to require the full member to accompany the working member on every inspection... there would be no need for working member.

4. If the regulation meant to require the full member to accompany the working member on every inspection... there would be no need for the regulation to require the full member's signature. The regulation would already require the full member's presence. Requiring his signature implies his absence.

5. The regulation requires signature on the working member's report, implying that the working member wrote it. There is no need to require through regulation that someone sign his own report.

There have been two major scams perpetrated on our industry in PA. One was Nation's Hazard... a fake insurance company (PA requires E&O insurance). The other one is PHIC... a fake association that snookered ramp up and mentoring fees out of inspectors. http://www.nachi.org/phicscam.htm

--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

8

Originally Posted By: rwills
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Although one can use semantics to interpret that the Full member does not need to be present to "Supervise"during the inspection of the working member, I have found that by speaking to many Full members in Pa, that most would not even consider signing a report that they were not present at. This would be like playing Russian roulette unless, The Full member was actually training the Working member as an employee and trusted that they could perform a professional inspection. ![](upload://xTIThQNj0p6zq30ZsSoqYc9hvz4.gif)

--
Bob Wills - MAB Chairman
BW Inspection Services
Warminster, Pa.
http://www.bwinspections.com

9

Originally Posted By: jbushart
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rwills wrote:


Although one can use semantics to interpret that the Full member does not need to be present to "Supervise"during the inspection of the working member, I have found that by speaking to many Full members in Pa, that most would not even consider signing a report that they were not present at. [/img]


Bob,

What part of the statute, in your opinion, limits the supervision to be accomplished by an inspector in PA? If he does not have to be present for the inspection, could he not be an inspector in California?

--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org
10

Originally Posted By: jburkeson
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gromicko wrote:
There have been two major scams perpetrated on our industry in PA. One was Nation's Hazard... a fake insurance company (PA requires E&O insurance). The other one is PHIC... a fake association that snookered ramp up and mentoring fees out of inspectors. http://www.nachi.org/phicscam.htm


Nick,

I do not know if there will be a PHCI here in Florida, but I can tell you this for a fact. Secretary Diane Carr of the Department of Business and Professional Regulation (DBPR) is well versed in Pennsylvania licensing law and this is the model they are considering for Florida, she commonly refers to it in meetings as the "Pennsylvania Model". I hope that NACHI and you will be able to dissuade DBPR the from making the same mistake in Florida as was done in PA.

--
Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)

?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
11

Originally Posted By: jbushart
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PA’s licensing law seems pretty benign, actually, compared to others and some that were being thrown around down there in Florida, IMO.


FABI would not like it at all, since they would not be recognized as a national organization by the definition in the statute. NACHI is recognized and, as such, its entrance exam is sufficient. Ironically, FABI members would have to jump the fence and belong to NACHI (or some other national association) in order to be licensed.

The biggest kick in the pants resulting from the PA statute was the fraudulent activities of a private association that pretended to be sanctioned by the state (PHIC). Before they were caught, they were able to steal money from new inspectors wanting to qualify under the statute. They were able to convince a few real estate agencies of their legitimacy, as well, but there are actions being taken in PA courts and in the legislature to undo any damage they may have caused toward that end, I understand.

Florida inspectors would have to be on guard against something like that, I suppose.

--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org

12

Originally Posted By: John McQuiggan
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Speaking as a trainee with no affiliation yet with NACHI, PHIC, ASHI, NAHI or any other HI association, I have to say the Pa. law has created nothing but a mess for people trying to get into the business here. And I don’t see where the home-buying public has gained anything either.


The HI associations disagree on what constitutes "compliance," the state has made no provision for implementation or enforcement, and the Realtors just ask that we sign a paper attesting that we're obeying the law. A guy could get cynical, ya know?

I'm just going to try to figure out:
1) which approach will make me the best possible home inspector for my clients, and
2) which approach will put me in the safest legal position once I start doing my own unsupervised inspections.

And hopefully, the same approach will meet both goals.

Isn't that what this law was supposed to accomplish? I don't get the sense that it did.

13

Originally Posted By: jbushart
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John McQuiggan wrote:

Isn't that what this law was supposed to accomplish? I don't get the sense that it did.


John,

In some states, the laws are driven by consumer complaints and are written to address them. In some states, the laws are driven from within the industry by people wishing to control it in some measure.

By the time these laws go through the political process of being drafted, amended, approved and enacted - it is almost impossible to recognize some of them from their original form.

Hang in there. Comply with what the law says, as opposed to what anyone tries to tell you what the law says, and get your questions answered by the State, when you can.

--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org
14

Originally Posted By: rwills
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Jim B quote: "Bob, What part of the statute, in your opinion, limits the supervision to be accomplished by an inspector in PA? If he does not have to be present for the inspection, could he not be an inspector in California?


Jim, I never said or stated m,y opinion as to where the inspector had to be from! I said "After speaking with many inspectors from Pa."

It is also many inspectors opinions here that "to supervise" means to "oversee" the inspection especially if they are planning on signing off on it.

Again! signing a blind inspection would be committing business suicide otherwise! That's MY opinion! BobW

--
Bob Wills - MAB Chairman
BW Inspection Services
Warminster, Pa.
http://www.bwinspections.com

15

Originally Posted By: jbushart
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


rwills wrote:


It is also many inspectors opinions here that "to supervise" means to "oversee" the inspection especially if they are planning on signing off on it.

Again! signing a blind inspection would be committing business suicide otherwise! That's MY opinion! BobW


I can see where some would not want to sign off on an inspection that they did not participate with, yet I can also see how difficult it would be for a new inspector to talk someone into tagging along with him for his first 100 inspections for free, too.

It is fortunate that the PA law leaves some operating room in this provision - as long as the inspection is signed off by a full member of a national association, it has met the letter of the law.

--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org
16

Originally Posted By: rwills
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Jim B, wrote:"I can see where some would not want to sign off on an inspection that they did not participate with, yet I can also see how difficult it would be for a new inspector to talk someone into tagging along with him for his first 100 inspections for free, too.


It is fortunate that the PA law leaves some operating room in this provision - as long as the inspection is signed off by a full member of a national association, it has met the letter of the law."

I don't see the fortune you speak of Jim! It's a six of one........matter! Actually, I'd probably be more willing to tag along, long before I'd be willing to sign off on a report! ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

--
Bob Wills - MAB Chairman
BW Inspection Services
Warminster, Pa.
http://www.bwinspections.com

17

Originally Posted By: John McQuiggan
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I don’t think “for free” is the model out there. I’ve heard of inspectors charging $25, $50 or more per trip to take a trainee along with them on their inspections. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, because the trainee is getting the benefit of their experience and their clients, plus in some cases the inspectors are training their future competition. I wouldn’t expect too many inspectors to do this for free.


Even inspectors who are just reviewing reports on inspections they hadn't witnessed could make a good case for charging for their time, their expertise and the risk they're taking. Hopefully they'd be doing more than just rubber-stamping those reports, which wouldn't do them or the trainee much good.

Which is not to say I'm eager to pay for any of this, only that everything I've heard says we should expect this to cost the trainee some bucks.

18

Originally Posted By: jbushart
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John McQuiggan wrote:
I don't think "for free" is the model out there. I've heard of inspectors charging $25, $50 or more per trip to take a trainee along with them on their inspections.


John,

This is a bit different than having a trainee tag along on someone else's inspections. This is where the unlicensed home inspector, himself, performs 100 inspections which is probably after he has already attended some training. The full member who supervises him would be signing off ("co-signing" if you will) on the first 100 of his inspections.

Under this scenerio, the supervising inspector would be tagging along with the unlicensed inspector instead of vice versa. In the end, to become a full member of NACHI, one must perform (not simply tag along or attend) 100 paid inspections. At that time, one would be eligible to become a licensed PA inspector, provided all of the other criteria is met.

This is why many take advantage of the fact that the law does not require the supervisor to be present, for very few would miss out on their own paid inspections to supervise yours - even for $100 or more. There are other ways to supervise.

Again, if you coordinate with the Director of Professional Development, you can arrange to have this requirement fulfilled in accordance with the law and still make a living.

--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org
19

Originally Posted By: jhagarty
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


jbushart wrote:


In the end, to become a full member of NACHI, one must perform (not simply tag along or attend) 100 paid inspections. At that time, one would be eligible to become a licensed PA inspector, provided all of the other criteria is met.

This is why many take advantage of the fact that the law does not require the supervisor to be present, for very few would miss out on their own paid inspections to supervise yours - even for $100 or more. There are other ways to supervise.

Again, if you coordinate with the Director of Professional Development, you can arrange to have this requirement fulfilled in accordance with the law and still make a living.


(3) Requires that a person may not become a full member unless the person has performed or participated in more than 100 home inspections and has passed a recognized or accredited examination testing knowledge of the proper procedures for conducting a home inspection.

Jim:

Your Post is Inaccurate regarding PA Law.

Assisted or Observed Inspections count towards the 100 Minimum requirement of the PA Law.

NACHI also recognizes an Assisted Inspection as an Inspection towards the 100 Minimum Requirement of Full Membership.

--
Joseph Hagarty

HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.
20

Originally Posted By: jhagarty
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


jbushart wrote:


...if you coordinate with the Director of Professional Development, you can arrange to have this requirement fulfilled in accordance with the law and still make a living.



How is that?

Does Joe Farsetta have an E&O policy to cover these Unsupervised Inspections that you state he is taking responsibility for?

--
Joseph Hagarty

HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.