North Dakota Law

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North Dakota Law

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Dean Foell

Tri-State Inspection Service
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User: dfoell
Posted: Jul 14, 2005 11:13 PM       Post Subject:
It is now official. You must be registered with the state, carry E&O insurance, and pass a national test (NACHI) to inspect in North Dakota. My registration number is 1. So that makes me the #1 home inspector in ND. That should look good in my next yellow page add.
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James Bushart

Home Inspection Services of Missouri
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User: jbushart
Posted: Jul 14, 2005 11:30 PM       Post Subject:
How many home inspectors are in North Dakota, approximately? Do you have a figure?

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Dean Foell

Tri-State Inspection Service
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User: dfoell
Posted: Jul 14, 2005 11:34 PM       Post Subject:
Maybe 30 tp 40 at best. The main goal for me was to get rid of the fly by night and the school teachers in the summer. Having to carry insurance just made there part time job too costly.
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Erby Crofutt

B4U Close Home Inspections & Radon Testing
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User: ecrofutt
Posted: Jul 15, 2005 8:18 AM       Post Subject:
Hey lets pass a state law to limit competition.

Gee, I thought the law was supposed to be used for consumer protection.

Four inspections on Friday and still make it to the bar for happy hour too!

Those realtors must like you. I wonder how your customers feel.

Seems consumer protection is somewhat lacking in Fargo, ND.

But damn, I like this idea. Do you get a lot of takers on this one.
Quote:
Get a 10% discount on 2 inspections when you order a
Seller Inspection on your current home, and a Buyer Inspection on the home you are considering purchasing
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Gerry Beaumont

Gerry Beaumont Consulting
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Posted: Jul 15, 2005 8:40 AM       Post Subject:
Hi Dean,

Congrats on license #1, but I would spell check your website "stste" ?

Regards

Gerry

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James Bushart

Home Inspection Services of Missouri
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User: jbushart
Posted: Jul 15, 2005 9:23 AM       Post Subject:
dfoell wrote:
Maybe 30 tp 40 at best. The main goal for me was to get rid of the fly by night and the school teachers in the summer. Having to carry insurance just made there part time job too costly.


Looks like "hooperism" is is not limited to just Florida. If I were one of the remaining North Dakota inspectors, I would be copying this quote and sending it to my State representative.

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James Bushart

Home Inspection Services of Missouri
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User: jbushart
Posted: Jul 15, 2005 9:35 AM       Post Subject:
ecrofutt wrote:
Hey lets pass a state law to limit competition.



Unfortunately, Erby, that is the thought process behind much of the driving force behind these laws. That is why the fight to eliminate association bias is so similar to fighting the law itself, in some cases.

To some, the legislative branch of government is an extension of their marketing plan. "If I cannot increase my market, I will increase my share by eliminating my competition." Money that would have gone toward advertising is, instead, spent on lobbying for a new law. In a letter from a chapter president in New Jersey, one chapter of ASHI in that state spent $20,000 in their losing effort to legislate people out of business. Estimates of FABI's expenditures in the same attempt in Florida is much higher than that.

While we have applauded the North Dakota law for its "NACHI freindliness", we probably should have been actively opposing its intent to exclude good inspectors as we did, successfully, in Florida and New Jersey. IMO, we missed one.

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Gerry Beaumont

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Posted: Jul 15, 2005 10:01 AM       Post Subject:
Hi to all,

JBushart wrote:
While we have applauded the North Dakota law for its "NACHI freindliness", we probably should have been actively opposing its intent to exclude good inspectors as we did, successfully, in Florida and New Jersey. IMO, we missed one.


Jim you and I disagree on most subjects, so it won't surprise you to hear that I disagree with you strongly. All the ND act requires is that a home inspector has passed a recognised exam, and has an Errors and ommisions policy in place.

http://www.state.nd.us/eforms/doc/sfn54381.pdf

What is it that you disagree with is it that Inspectors are required to prove some level of competence, or that they are required to protect the consumer by carrying errors and omisions ?

Regards

Gerry

--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
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gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

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jburkeson
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Posted: Jul 15, 2005 10:03 AM       Post Subject:

Please Note: This user is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with NACHI.
ecrofutt wrote:
Hey lets pass a state law to limit competition.

Gee, I thought the law was supposed to be used for consumer protection.



The E&O requirement is directly related to consumer protection regardless of the reason why it was included in the bill or how this particular inspector interpreted it.

--
Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)

?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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James Bushart

Home Inspection Services of Missouri
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Posted: Jul 15, 2005 10:13 AM       Post Subject:
gbeaumont wrote:

Jim you and I disagree on most subjects, so it won't surprise you to hear that I disagree with you strongly.

What is it that you disagree with is it that Inspectors are required to prove some level of competence, or that they are required to protect the consumer by carrying errors and omisions ?

Regards

Gerry


Gerry,

I was thinking of you when I wrote my last post. Glad to know we are still in opposition on this point.

In a state with a handful of home inspectors, it is highly improbable (and no one has yet to offer the argument) that this law was driven by a group of concerned/damaged consumers. Much like your friends in Florida who wanted to eliminate competition and create a market for training schools/instructors, this bill appears to have been motivated by greed as well.

The NACHI exam was considered by ND as being sufficient proof of competency. I am shocked that you would agree with that after the position you took in Florida, but I am ecouraged by your change of heart.

As for the requirement for E&O insurance, several states have taken steps to protect the consumer using additional means of protection (bonding, frozen assets, etc) to accomplish the same goal that do not put the uninsurable out of business. But then, you knew that. icon_wink.gif

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Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

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Gerry Beaumont

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Posted: Jul 15, 2005 10:28 AM       Post Subject:
Hi to all,

James, what you know about my motivation for either supporting or rejecting any proposed licensing bill can be written on the head of a pin.

I am personally a fan of home inspector education and testing, I don't think it unreasonable to expect that if someone enters our field that they should have to pass an exam based on competancy, and if they are unable to do so would have to undergo training. I am not now (or ever have been a supporter of mandatory education)

As to the E&O requirement as you say that varries by state, but I am a supporter of insurance or bond based compensation for those buyers who have been let down by what they percieved to be a professional inspector.

Regards

Gerry

--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

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John Onofrey

Top 2 Bottom Real Estate Inspectors
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User: jonofrey
Posted: Jul 15, 2005 10:36 AM       Post Subject:
ecrofutt wrote:
Hey lets pass a state law to limit competition.

Gee, I thought the law was supposed to be used for consumer protection.

Four inspections on Friday and still make it to the bar for happy hour too!

Those realtors must like you. I wonder how your customers feel.

Seems consumer protection is somewhat lacking in Fargo, ND.

But damn, I like this idea. Do you get a lot of takers on this one.
Quote:
Get a 10% discount on 2 inspections when you order a
Seller Inspection on your current home, and a Buyer Inspection on the home you are considering purchasing



Erby,

Are you trying to say that part time inspectors and fly-by-nighters are a good idea?

--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.

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James Bushart

Home Inspection Services of Missouri
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(as of 3/25/07)
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Posts: 3690
User: jbushart
Posted: Jul 15, 2005 10:39 AM       Post Subject:
gbeaumont wrote:


James, what you know about my motivation for either supporting or rejecting any proposed licensing bill can be written on the head of a pin.



Gerry, what I care about your motivation regarding licensing would fit on that pin, too. Why bring that up?

gbeaumont wrote:

I am personally a fan of home inspector education and testing, I don't think it unreasonable to expect that if someone enters our field that they should have to pass an exam based on competancy, and if they are unable to do so would have to undergo training. I am not now (or ever have been a supporter of mandatory education)



Yes. No disagreement here. You had argued before, however, that you did not feel that the NACHI exam accomplished this. Again, I am encouraged by your change of heart, as I previously stated.


gbeaumont wrote:

As to the E&O requirement as you say that varries by state, but I am a supporter of insurance or bond based compensation for those buyers who have been let down by what they percieved to be a professional inspector.



Your statement is not consistent with your previous post. I pointed out bonding as an alternative to E&O, which could have been considered in ND but was not. There are other methods, such as offering and freezing certain assets, that some states offer as well. One particular state allows its licensing board to adopt other creative measures to ensure an inspector's ability to cover for his errors if he cannot be insured. Strictly limiting the requirement to E&O insurance, as your first statement implied, can be used to eliminate competition - as Dean was so kind to point out when he started this thread.

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www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

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Erby Crofutt

B4U Close Home Inspections & Radon Testing
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User: ecrofutt
Posted: Jul 15, 2005 10:44 AM       Post Subject:
I'm saying that passing a law to limit competition is a bad idea.

I'm saying that "required" E & O is a bad idea.
Not E& O in and of itself. Just the "required" part. Did you know that most doctors, lawyers and other professionals are not "required" to have E & O by law. This "requirement" puts the insurance industry in charge of who can be an inspector.

I'm saying that four inspections in one day and still making it to happy hour is a bad idea.
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jburkeson
NACHI Member: No
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Posted: Jul 15, 2005 10:46 AM       Post Subject:

Please Note: This user is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with NACHI.
jbushart wrote:
The NACHI exam was considered by ND as being sufficient proof of competency. icon_wink.gif


Do you really believe that the oversight of declaring an non-proctored exam sufficient proof of competency will go unnoticed by the state legislators once the E&O providers refuse to sell those questionable inspectors insurance?

Even if that should be the case it will surely be trashed and held up for ridicule by every other association that requires mandatory proctored testing, furthermore no doubt it will be mentioned that there is a member of the NACHI Legislative Committee who approves and promotes such chicanery.

It would be wise to abandon the non-proctored exam while there is still a glimmer of hope that NACHI and its members can at some time in the future gain the respect of the greater home inspector profession.

--
Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)

?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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Gerry Beaumont

Gerry Beaumont Consulting
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Posted: Jul 15, 2005 10:51 AM       Post Subject:
Hi to all,

Quote:
Gerry, what I care about your motivation regarding licensing would fit on that pin, too. Why bring that up?


James, if you don't care start by giving up the conspiracy therory that as I am an educator that I only support education as I make a living from it.

Quote:
Yes. No disagreement here. You had argued before, however, that you did not feel that the NACHI exam accomplished this. Again, I am encouraged by your change of heart, as I previously stated.


My previous comment is as you know taken out of context, my aim was and is to ensure that we as an organization have an exam that would be accepted as a NHIE equivalent in all licensed states.

As too the insurance point I have never excluded the idea of other types of consumer protection, but I am a huge fan of that protection being in place.

Regards

Gerry

--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

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John Onofrey

Top 2 Bottom Real Estate Inspectors
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Posted: Jul 15, 2005 10:54 AM       Post Subject:
ecrofutt wrote:
I'm saying that passing a law to limit competition is a bad idea.


I respectfully disagree. I think this is a full time profession. It is full of pitfalls. There should be no room for part timers and fly-by-nighters. IMO, consumers are better off with full time professionals not low balling part timers.

ecrofutt wrote:
I'm saying that "required" E & O is a bad idea.
Not E& O in and of itself. Just the "required" part. Did you know that most doctors, lawyers and other professionals are not "required" to have E & O by law. This "requirement" puts the insurance industry in charge of who can be an inspector.


Agreed.

ecrofutt wrote:
I'm saying that four inspections in one day and still making it to happy hour is a bad idea.


What if you're buying the drinks? icon_lol.gif Just kidding.

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James Bushart

Home Inspection Services of Missouri
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User: jbushart
Posted: Jul 15, 2005 11:02 AM       Post Subject:
gbeaumont wrote:


James, if you don't care start by giving up the conspiracy therory that as I am an educator that I only support education as I make a living from it.



What in the hell are you talking about? Have you stopped taking your medication?


gbeaumont wrote:

My previous comment is as you know taken out of context, my aim was and is to ensure that we as an organization have an exam that would be accepted as a NHIE equivalent in all licensed states.


North Dakota has already done that. We still have about 25 more states that can do the same thing.

gbeaumont wrote:

As too the insurance point I have never excluded the idea of other types of consumer protection, but I am a huge fan of that protection being in place.



You did from the post in which you first offered your disagreement with me. Read it again.

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James Bushart

Home Inspection Services of Missouri
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Posted: Jul 15, 2005 11:09 AM       Post Subject:
jonofrey wrote:
ecrofutt wrote:
I'm saying that passing a law to limit competition is a bad idea.


I respectfully disagree. I think this is a full time profession. It is full of pitfalls. There should be no room for part timers and fly-by-nighters. IMO, consumers are better off with full time professionals not low balling part timers.



Hey, John.

In certain states with such small populations as North Dakota, don't you think that it would be difficult for someone to jump into it full time on the first day they decide to retire from their home construction job and become a home inspector in a county with a population of 1500 people?

As Erby pointed out, Dean is covering three states and doing four inspections in one day in time to make it to happy hour. It's full time, but does it represent quality and competency?

In reality, with no disrespect intended to Dean, which inspector poses the greatest risk to the consumer?

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Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

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Gerry Beaumont

Gerry Beaumont Consulting
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Posted: Jul 15, 2005 11:15 AM       Post Subject:
Hi to all,


Quote:
Much like your friends in Florida who wanted to eliminate competition and create a market for training schools/instructors, this bill appears to have been motivated by greed as well.


Quote:
What in the hell are you talking about? Have you stopped taking your medication?


You have frequently alluded to the fact that I support education because I am an educator.

Yes my original point did support E&O as that is the most widely used form of consumer protection insurance, however I will say again I am NOT opposed to other similar schemes that protect the consumer, I tend to forget how pedantic you can be, and I unfortunately alway think of insurance in terms of E&O.

James, do you think you could just for once have a debate without insults and put downs ?

Gerry

--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

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