Canadian Legislation

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Canadian Legislation

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rwand
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 6:10 AM       Post Subject:

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Good morning Claude

The message maybe out of context, but this is not the first time it has been stated. It seems the spokesperson has either not read the by-laws, or the mission objectives of CAHPI and is singing out of tune with you and the others?

Yes it has been made clear by you that everyone can apply, but you are not the power base (no disrespect) anymore than the so called spokesperson. The question remains is the spokesperson bias and singing a different tune to Nachi members and another to Oahi-CAHPI and CAHPI? It sure seems that way, which leads me to state somebody in authority and someone with brains better take the reins. Again it is not me suggesting CAHPI's overall plan is to thwart Nachi members from appying, but rather the spokesperson is and has made the message clear on that point. Isn't it time someone came clean and someone in CAHPI other than the spokesperson cleaned up the mess?

I am not suggesting you are part of the process to exclude anybody. But now I do have concerns about the ability of the Certification Council to act independently without undue influence being brought to bare by a spokesperson who has ulterior motives and seems to be on a power trip.

As to wasting your time and the spokespersons time it appears he is wasting his time, your time, CAHPI time and wasting everyones time with his myopic views and beliefs and holding them out as gospel.

Claude I don't have any doubts about you being truthful and helpful, my concern is with the spokesperson he is not serving anyone, and CAHPI needs to restore confidence in its message by providing someone who can get out of the rut of self importance.

Thanks for helping clear up this unfortunate incident.

Cheers
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
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rwand
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 6:15 AM       Post Subject:

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Can someone in authority in Nachi explain why a non member can use Nachi resources (private email) to send out harrassing emails to Nachi members?

Can this person be blocked from doing this?

Thank you.

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
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Larry Ewens

All Certified Inspection Service Systems
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 7:27 AM       Post Subject:
And It Starts All Over Again
Ray
Mr. Joe Fontana has communicated with me on this issue after which I was threatened by Claude Lawrensen with legal action because I opened a can of worms. I was reassured by Mr. Fontana that one would nort have to be a member of CAHPI or any organization to become a part of the initiative when implimented. Were I you, I would forward a copy of the email to Mr. Fontana and let the "ship hit the sand" as it were. We seem to be back at "lets see if we can slide this in under the radar" so they can get their way with the industry as a whole and not let the rest of the inspectors know what is happening. The committee has a mandate to make sure the industry and not just CAHPI/OAHI members know about this. To date the only meeting I have heard about has been the one in Kingston and according to all accounts not a whole lot of info was put forth. If I am mistaken please Claude enlighten me and I will retract the statement. To my knowledge,I have spoken to many peopleabout this, and it is as others say"Maybe I am just living off the beaten path but this whole C.A.P.H.I. intitiative seems to be happening behind closed doors. How can a programme that is supposed to embrace all inspectors be conducted so? "
as per George Luck in this thread. I have been trying to flog this horse for a while and seem to be getting nowhere. Goerge is right, this whole thing is being done behind closed doors and is being shrugged off by CAHPI as "not ready yet"," Haven't crossed the T's and dotted the I's" etc. I think the whole clandestine thing has gone too far. Bill mullen came out and said on this MB that we wouldn't have to join CAHPI and that sort of Quelled the rhetoric for a while but it would appear the some one, again, has let the cat out of the bag and The National is trying to slip something past the industry as a collective. We have to unite and write Mr. Fontana and open up this can of worms again. If you don't feel you can use the email send it to me and I will be glad to grace the email box of Mr. Fontana again with my presence.
I could go on for days about this as it really gets under my craw when things like this go on.
Ray keep in touch on this, I am behind this 100% and will do what ever it takes to make sure this is not rammed down our throats."
The price has gone up,
For this issue $12.50
Larry

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Larry Ewens

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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 7:30 AM       Post Subject:
George
Hell man I moved from simmer to High a long time ago.
Larry

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rwand
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 7:41 AM       Post Subject:

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It is also apparent that the Editor in Chief of the Canadian Home Inspectors Magazine is singing the same tune as Mr. Mullens. The editor is also using Nachi resources to send out harrassing emails to Nachi members who have spoken up on this thread! It sure seems those that think they hold a power base can do and say as they please.

Claude someone needs to take control of this situation before it gets out of hand. At least two people in CAHPI need to be held accountable for their statements and actions. What is going to be done about this? And why with the history associated (via complaint to CAHPI ethics) of the Editor is this abuse allowed to continue? Whether he is speaking as Editor of a home inspector, the two certainly seem to be melded together and inside info is being used for their private agendas.

Maybe it is time to forward a petition to Mr. Fontana as Larry suggests These people are not Gods and they are abusing their positions.

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
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Larry Ewens

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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 7:44 AM       Post Subject:
This is what I received from Mr. Fontana
June 17, 2005

Mr. Larry Ewens
(Larryewens@aol.com)


Dear Mr. Ewens:

Thank you for your electronic message of May 8, 2005, concerning the Canadian Home Inspectors and Building Officials (CHIBO) National Initiative.

Since 1996, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) has been encouraging and supporting the Canadian private home inspection industry in its efforts to become a national, unified and credible industry, requiring a nationally recognized certification of a minimum standard of performance for private home inspectors. In response, the Canadian Association of Home and Property Inspectors (CAHPI) was established, as a national alliance of private home and property inspectors, to guide the industry and to develop national performance standards. The industry set a requirement to regulate itself and build a qualified and recognizable profession.

To establish consistent national standards, certification, codes of ethics and training for both private and municipal building inspectors (who enforce codes and regulations), a public-private partnership was created. The partnership is led by the Construction Sector Council with participation by CAHPI, the Canadian Alliance of Building Officials Associations, Human Resources and Skills Development Canada and CMHC. This national initiative is well advanced. National occupational standards have been created and certification and accreditation models are being finalized.

The national certification will be voluntary and industry led. There are no regulatory requirements in Canada for private home inspectors to be certified to a minimum national standard of performance, or to belong to an association of private home inspectors. Neither CMHC nor the government is participating in this certification process.

The significance of this national initiative for the private home inspection industry is that public confidence in the industry will increase when it is realized that private home inspectors, who have been certified to a national standard, will perform inspections to at least a minimum and consistent level of competency. A professional private home inspector, meeting a common, national competency standard, can offer value to those Canadian housing consumers who choose to use their service.

The details on how this certification program will be administered and structured are being developed by CHIBO. However, CMHC has asked that all private home inspectors in Canada have the opportunity to apply for this voluntary certification and CAHPI has agreed to this request. CMHC is also asking that the certification program have proper governance to ensure its integrity. An independent Certification Council is one option being considered.

CHIBO participants are communicating to the home inspection industry on this project. CMHC information may be found on the Corporation's web site at www.cmhc.ca under the topic 'home inspector'. CAHPI is communicating with their membership and with non-affiliated inspection organizations and individuals. For further information, you may wish to contact your CAHPI provincial association, or the CAHPI President, Mr. Michael Guihan, at (709) 739-4302, or by e-mail at: president@cahpi.ca.

Again, thank you for writing. I trust that my comments will be helpful.

Sincerely,

Original signed by

The Honourable Joe Fontana, P.C., M.P.

--
Just my usual 12.5 cents

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George A. Luck

Dominion Home Inspectors, Inc.
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 8:04 AM       Post Subject:
Clearly the process has grown beyond Mr Fontana and without his participation. All personality issues aside, it is beginning to appear as though another agenda is being served here and that agenda,at least to date, does not include either communicating with, or the participation of, independent Canadian home inspectors.

We had better get involved guys or we will lose whatever chance we have of influencing this programme.
George

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Bill Mullen RHI
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 8:08 AM       Post Subject:

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Thanks for posting that, Larry.

It is exactly what I and Claude have been telling everyone for months. Our story has not strayed one bit. This will be an inclusive process, despite what some would lead you to believe.

Raymond started this panic when he posted a quotation from a 'spokeperson' from CAHPI. I urge everyone to read it carefully and look really hard and then tell me if it says ANYTHING about The National Certification project. Raymond has put his spin on that one sentence even though it does not in any way mention the National Initiative. The speaker was me, and I was talking about the CAHPI National Conferene and how successful it will be. I didn't once mention certification. In addition, what I said was in a private e-mail between two individuals, not some pronouncement as a 'spokeperson' of CAHPI.

Raymond has once again played all of you like a cheap fiddle.

Also, I fully expect Robert Brown to correct the lies Raymond made about me being compensated for my visits to Kingston and Bowmanville. Not only was I not paid a cent in Kingston, I paid hundreds out of my own pocket. As for the DUCA meeting, Claude and I first asked to be reimbursed ONLY for our expenses and Robert can testify that I have since offered to even donate my own costs. I have no idea where this $ 1000 came from that Raymond is throwing around. I wouldn't mind having it, but Claude and I have never, ever asked to be paid for our time, even though we are both extremely busy people.

I have issued this to clear up a few matters.

Bill Mullen RHI
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Robert Brown

A.C.I.S.S. Home Inspections
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 8:36 AM       Post Subject:
To all.

It does not matter if a person is paid or not paid to participate in a meeting. That is between the person who possibly asked and the other who possibly paid. It really plays no part of the "big picture".

With regards to the Kingston meeting, there was plenty of information offered. So that was never a problem.

As in any undertaking there will be rumors etc., now lets make this a National undertaking and watch how rumors and power struggles begin.

There is NO room for personal attacks or rumors, there is only room for factual information and action based on facts.

As Bill has stated he offered to come to the next meeting at his own expense. My only question (at this time) is WHEN?

If we cannot make a decision as to when this meeting will take place (to most everyone's satisfaction), then there will be no choice but to take COLLECTIVE, POSITIVE action, for the benefit of ALL Inspectors.

There are literally hundreds of Inspectors throughout Canada who are chomping at the bit ready to be heard in a very loud voice which will sure to be heard all the way up the chain.

Bill, two questions for you regarding your Convention.

Is it open to ALL Inspectors regardless of their association?

Is this when the "Announcement" will take place, and if so, will it be yet another "final draft" or will it be "cast-in-stone"?

--
Bob Brown
President NACHI Du-Ka Chapter ON. Canada
NACHI Cell: 1-484-429-5465

ACISS Home Inspections
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Bill Mullen RHI
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 8:58 AM       Post Subject:

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Robert Brown said:

To all.

It does not matter if a person is paid or not paid to participate in a meeting. That is between the person who possibly asked and the other who possibly paid. It really plays no part of the "bib picture".

With regards to the Kingston meeting, there was plenty of information offered. So that was never a problem.

As in any undertaking there will be rumors etc., now lets make this a National undertaking and watch how rumors and power struggles begin.

There is NO room for personal attacks or rumors, there is only room for factual information and action based on facts.

As Bill has stated he offered to come to the next meeting at his own expense. My only question (at this time) is WHEN?

If we cannot make a decision as to when this meeting will take place (to most everyone's satisfaction), then there will be no choice but to take COLLECTIVE, POSITIVE action, for the benefit of ALL Inspectors.

There are literally hundreds of Inspectors throughout Canada who are chomping at the bit ready to be heard in a very loud voice which will sure to be heard all the way up the chain.

Bill, two questions for you regarding your Convention.

Is it open to ALL Inspectors regardless of their association?

Is this when the "Announcement" will take place, and if so, will it be yet another "final draft" or will it be "cast-in-stone"?
--

Robert:

With all due respect, it does very much matter if someone is paid or not, especially if that person has freely donated his time and resources and is subsequently accused of charging for same. You know the truth and I am disappointed that you refuse to clarify it.

The WHEN in your post is a big question. Claude and I have requests from across the country to deliver the information, but we are waiting until we can speak clearly and without having to say 'that isn't yet decided'. As you can see in the message that Larry got in June from Mr. Fontana's office, things are still being worked out. I have made a committment to you and I will live up to it, and I have the DUCA group at the top of the list. If it makes you feel any better, there are at least fifteen CAHPI-related groups who are also on the waiting list.

We HOPE to be able to start spreading the word soon but we can't make promises because we still don't know the timeline.

I agree with you that the innuendoes and rumours help nobody. Most are based on little or no verified information.

I'll answer your two questions as well as I can:

1) The annual CAHPI National Conference is and always has been open to anyone, regardless of affiliation. It is being hosted this year by CAHPI-Ontario and is being held in Niagara Falls. The registartion forms and some information can be found at www.inspectionodyssey.com CAHPI welcomes participation by everyone.

2) I would love to see a final, official announcement made at this conference, but I can't predict if the people now working on the documents will have everything ready. I am hopeful and from all indications it might happen, but we still don't know. (Did you ever try to get civil servants to hurry during the summer?)

Bill Mullen RHI
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Roy Cooke

Roys Home Inspection
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 9:00 AM       Post Subject:
rwand wrote:
It may be a good idea to have a Topic Thread entitled Canadian Legislation.

I rec'd a private email from the spokesperson of CAHPI that stated, and I quote:

If you do find a way to speak with your handlers at NACHI, tell them to start packing their bags, because after the special events and announcements to be made at the CAHPI Conference in Niagara Falls, NACHI will be irrelevant in Canada.Raymond Wand R.H.I.
Alton, On


Bill Mullen RHI wrote:
Thanks for posting that, Larry.

Raymond started this panic when he posted a quotation from a 'spokesperson' from CAHPI. I urge everyone to read it carefully and look really hard and then tell me if it says ANYTHING about The National Certification project. Raymond has put his spin on that one sentence even though it does not in any way mention the National Initiative. The speaker was me, and I was talking about the CAHPI National Conference and how successful it will be. I didn't once mention certification. In addition, what I said was in a private e-mail between two individuals, not some pronouncement as a 'spokesperson' of CAHPI
I have issued this to clear up a few matters.
Bill Mullen RHI


Gee I have read it more then once and it seems to me to be you think NACHI is going to fade away in Canada when it is exactly the opposite happening NACHI is growing and CAHPI is not ( Bill Keeps quoting numbers but they are students )( past records show almost all students never become RHI's) ( RHIs still remain at approx the count they have been for many years)

Past records also show Raymond is very truthfully unfortunately I only wish I could say the same about Bill .

If the certification goes the way Bill would like us to believe it will go then I can see
another large cost to the Inspection Association for Lawyers cost.
We all know in a confrontation the big winners are lawyers.
To try and say CAHPI/ONTARIO members are more qualified the NACHI , this is wrong Only 29.5% of their members have been doing inspections for over 3 years .
NACHI members approx 56% have been doing inspections for over 3 years
21% 2 years and 23% under one year.
NACHI being Larger and a larger % of members with more experience, Most certainly must be included in the
eventual outcome if we hope to avoid confrontation.
The OAHI figures I have used came from their most June 30/05 release

Bill States (If you do find a way to speak with your handlers at NACHI, tell them to start packing their bags, because after the special events and announcements to be made at the CAHPI Conference in Niagara Falls, NACHI will be irrelevant in Canada.)

Thanks for the heads up I am sure our ( Handlers ) know about your brag, and are quite prepared , I only hope CAHPI is .

This might be a great time for the olive branch you offered last year then reneged on it 2 days later should be brought out again and serious communication between our two association start in earnest
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Larry Ewens

All Certified Inspection Service Systems
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 9:07 AM       Post Subject:
Bill
So what you are saying is that you admit to threatening the existence of NACHI in Canada. It would appear to me that if you are indeed the spokesperson for the national initiative that it is not to far a stretch to assume that you are referring to something to do with the initiative. I can see no other way that you could honestly say that after the conference NACHI will be nonexistent in Canada. Please clarify this and believe me I will let Mr. Fontana know about your threat. If you want to play hard ball Bill step up to the plate sir, as I have said before I live for the fight.
Just my, in this case $12.50
Larry

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Bill Mullen RHI
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 9:14 AM       Post Subject:

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Larry:

Where do you read that I said NACHI would no longer exist? I have not threatened the existence of NACHI at all. I'm sure it will be around for quite a while. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I have been trying to provide some reasonable answers this morning to help quell some of the concerns but it's apparant that you and Mr. Cooke insist on attacking me. I'm wasting my time here trying to help.

You guys can figure it out for yourself, and what you can't determine, I'm sure you'll make up.

Bill Mullen RHI
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Claude Lawrenson

Ontario Home Inspections Inc.
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 9:18 AM       Post Subject:
Seeing that I am not the spokesman or as some want to believe - unbelievable - I wish all of you the best! Speculate, guessing and stabbing people in the back serves nothing but cause dissension and that is just for your own selfish and self-motivated benefit. So I can either work with you or against you! Not to mention it may even be to the detriment of furthering the cause of NACHI in Canada. So please hold on to your high horses.

The offer to speak to your meeting groups is still open, the time will be on my agenda, and unfortunately not yours. Secondly, it seems that in hind sight that the offer to speak was premature because I have stated before it is still a work in process and the final version is still in review.

So would you like all of the story or the half finished one? The choice is yours. Remember pissing me off or Bill regardless of the ill-will already shown here on this forum will do nothing to open up the discussions or dialogue on this issue.

Regards, Claude

--
Ontario Home Inspections Inc.

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Larry Ewens

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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 9:20 AM       Post Subject:
If you do find a way to speak with your handlers at NACHI, tell them to start packing their bags, because after the special events and announcements to be made at the CAHPI Conference in Niagara Falls, NACHI will be irrelevant in Canada.
12.gif[/img][/quote]

Bill
I would suggest to you that if NACHI were irrelevent in CANADA then there would be no point would there. Ergo we would be nonexistant. Running already are you Bill? Come on, step up, believe me the ship is going to hit the sand.
Larry

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George A. Luck

Dominion Home Inspectors, Inc.
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 9:20 AM       Post Subject:
With all due respect Mr. Mullen , you have been quoted as saying that N.A.C.H.I. had better pack it's bags this fall. That is a very serious statement for the representative of the national programme to be making, especially when this programme is touted as being " inclusive".

Either step up to the plate and deny having made that statement and thereby forcing the production of proof or consider stepping down from your post as representative. Admittedly, some of the statements made here are provocative but you , sir, must either rise above them or resign. Period. You are only doing further damage to the programme and feeding the conspiracy theorists amongst us otherwise.

Please clarify for those out here who are waiting.

George

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Roy Cooke

Roys Home Inspection
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 9:31 AM       Post Subject:
I hope this can be put to bed Bill I respected you and would have followed you to the end .
Unfortunately it was you who made the first damaging remarks about and too me .
I put it down to you having a bad day and said so in a very forgiving way .
You the turned around and came on strong about me and made some more very damaging untruthful remarks about me .
I was very disappointed to have this happen so very shortly after you making the statement
about How Roy was such a huge asset to the home inspection people and how he has been one of the very strongest supporters of the home inspection industry .
Bill said Roy also has been A big support of the CANUK bulletin Board and brought in more members then any one else.
When I wanted to leave the BB after giving some BB post's to Gil Against the rules you where the one who talked me into staying
I see this rule has not been used on any others who have given private post's out including you Mr. Mullen
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rwand
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 9:35 AM       Post Subject:

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Quote:
CMHC is also asking that the certification program have proper governance to ensure its integrity. An independent Certification Council is one option being considered.


Self regulation does not work, we see that in the manipulation and agendas as demonstrated by the appointed Spokesperson for CAHPI. Self regulation is only applied to the members. The BOD can do what they please because there is no self governance of their actions. It hasn't work for Oahi and it won't work for CAHPI. Until you have a transparent system and assurances those elected to office uphold their part of the bargain then great. Take control of the industry out of the hands of self regulating assocaitions.

Even the reply from the Minister indicates to deal with Mr. Guihan. When you ask Mr. Guihan, he tells you to speak with the Spokesperson Mr. Bill Mullen. The only problem is Bill seems to have this misguided opinion that he can and will if at all possible in his position thwart anything to do with Nachi members and or anyone bold enough to question his statements.

As to the presentations and travelling to present the National I do not have a problem with anyone being compensated, I do have a problem with people who claim to have borne all the expense when they haven't.

Mr. Mullen you may wish to clean up your act. You are well versed at dishing people and perpetrating falsities. Your statements made in your private email attest to your misguided intentions.

For the benefit of all, again I suggest that you contact Mr. Guihan President of CAHPI for clarification and direction or alternatively contact Mr. Fontana.

Larry thank you for posting the letter. It sure is an eye opener!

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
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rwand
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 9:44 AM       Post Subject:

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Hey Claude, I don't think anyone is blaming you for comments in relation to those made by Mr. Mullens.

What appears to be happening is that someone in a position has made statements which are baseless and boastful, by all appearances. Others seem to tow the same line within CAHPI. There is a problem and clearly as demonstrated by the Ministers letter CAHPI seems to have possibly indicated they have a different view. How can anyone put any faith in anything when CAHPI when an undercurrent like this exists? What is the problem of dealing with Mr. Guihan?

Thank you.

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
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Roy Cooke

Roys Home Inspection
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Posted: Aug 18, 2005 9:45 AM       Post Subject:
clawrenson wrote:

So would you like all of the story or the half finished one? The choice is yours. Remember pissing me off or Bill regardless of the ill-will already shown here on this forum will do nothing to open up the discussions or dialogue on this issue.

Regards, Claude

Sorry Claude You are or where on the CANUK forum you have seen the Post's Bill has made about me .
Do you think I am wrong to be upset when he tells out right lies about me .
You say let it go well I have tried BUT BILL does not let it go .
He continues to fan the flames on the CANUK forum about me and others with his false statements.
.I do not remember seeing you standing up to him for providing false information to HIS group of followers on HIS forum.
This far from fair for Bill and others to continue to belittle me and others where we do not have a chance to defend our selves .
Respect is earned and when it is lost it takes a long time to get it back .
For Bill to continue to make false statements is wrong .
I will stand behind any statement I have made.

Please Claude I do respect you but am so disappointed to see NACHI treated the way it is when it looks to me to be the only association that is doing any thing for its members.
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