Spalling foundation

These message board pages are now for archival purposes only. Please visit https://www.nachi.org/forum/ for our most recent forum discussions.

Spalling foundation

AuthorMessage
ahalstead
NACHI Member: No
(as of 3/25/07)
Inactive Poster
Posts: 56
Posted: Aug 22, 2005 11:52 PM       Post Subject:

Please Note: This user is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with NACHI.
Found this situation the other day and wonder what others may have written about it. I come across this once in a while. Probably caused by a high concrete slump and over - vibration. Possibly to much hi-early in a cold weather situation. The basement has a water problem mainly from the slab and not from the walls. Walls do not have characterisitic effloresence of water migrating through and there is only one small crack on the inside which has been properly addressed with epoxy. Just wondering if others think it should be addressed and how? No evidence as to how deep the spalling goes. And notice it does not go to far above grade?
[ Image: https://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/Photo_081905_009.jpg ]

--
Allen J. Halstead

Tri-County Home Inspections
Ghent, NY

"...for your peace of mind..."

Back to Top
Todd Schwalbe

Above & Beyond Home Inspections Inc.
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 129
User: tschwalbe
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 5:08 AM       Post Subject:
I would like to see how you are going to write up the other 2 major problems.
Back to Top
Erby Crofutt

B4U Close Home Inspections & Radon Testing
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 1348
User: ecrofutt
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 5:32 AM       Post Subject:
Are you sure this isn't just a parge coat peeling off?
Back to Top
ahalstead
NACHI Member: No
(as of 3/25/07)
Inactive Poster
Posts: 56
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 6:34 AM       Post Subject:

Please Note: This user is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with NACHI.
Already wrote up about the downspout extension. Fail to see another major problem. Please enlighten me.

No, it is not a parge coat. Definitly spalling.

--
Allen J. Halstead

Tri-County Home Inspections
Ghent, NY

"...for your peace of mind..."

Back to Top
Todd Schwalbe

Above & Beyond Home Inspections Inc.
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 129
User: tschwalbe
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 8:17 AM       Post Subject:
What about the exaust vent coming out of the basement window? or the undermining of the basement steps?
Back to Top
ahalstead
NACHI Member: No
(as of 3/25/07)
Inactive Poster
Posts: 56
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 8:44 AM       Post Subject:

Please Note: This user is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with NACHI.
That is not undermining .. That is actually exposed waterproofing that appears to be a shadow in the photo.. I know that from the photo it looks like undermining. But it isn't.

The "exhaust' vent is actual a 'power" vent. The boiler (located in the basement) exhausts through a fan powered ehaust system. Typical system found in these parts. Especially on newer homes where the owner saves the cost of a chimney. The powered "chimney" is actually double walled duct and typically goes through the side of the house. (Mine actually exits higher through the exterior wall). I don't see any problem with this installation. It is 4 years old and has (supposedly) been working fine.

This is why I rarely comment on photos on the message board. 2 dimensional photos don't always give the real picture.

--
Allen J. Halstead

Tri-County Home Inspections
Ghent, NY

"...for your peace of mind..."

Back to Top
Russell Cloyd

Intra-Spec Home Inspections and Code Consulting, LLC.
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 258
User: rcloyd
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 9:11 AM       Post Subject:
Allen,

The spalling in the picture can happen during construction when the concrete is placed during cold weather (40 deg. F or less) and proper protective measures are not implemented. Of course as a HI you do not have to determine the cause and may open yourself to liability in doing so.
Please see NACHI SOP: 2.3 (II)(F).

2.3. Basement, Foundation & Crawlspace

I. The inspector shall inspect:

A. The basement.
B. The foundation
C. The crawlspace.
D. The visible structural components.
E. Any present conditions or indications of active water penetration by probing a representative sampling of structural components where deterioration is believed to be present or where clear indications of deterioration are present.
F. And report any general indications of foundation movement that are observed, such as but not limited to sheetrock cracks, brick cracks, out-of-square door frames or floor slopes.

II. The inspector is not required to:

A. Enter any crawlspaces that are not readily accessible or where entry could cause damage or pose a hazard to the inspector in his or her opinion.
B. Move stored items or debris.
C. Operate sump pumps with inaccessible floats.
D. Identify size, spacing, span, location or adequacy of foundation bolting, bracing, joists or support systems.
E. Provide any engineering or architectural service.
F. Report on the adequacy of any structural system or component.
I would simply note the presence of the spalling in my report and recommend further evaluation by a structural engineer.

As for the boiler vent termination, I would check the manufacturer's installation guide for proper clearance to combustibles i.e. plywood and shakes. I would be surprised if the required clearance was less than 1 inch.

You are correct, the downspout should terminate a min. of 5' from the foundation wall in order to keep the water from saturating the loose uncompacted fill (overdig) around the home.

As you mentioned, it is difficult to tell from a 2D photo but there appears to be a faulty grade along this rear wall of the house.

Regards,

--
Russell G. Cloyd
Intra-Spec Home Inspections
& Code Consulting, LLC
859-586-4591
www.intra-spechomeinspections.com

Back to Top
ahalstead
NACHI Member: No
(as of 3/25/07)
Inactive Poster
Posts: 56
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 9:27 AM       Post Subject:

Please Note: This user is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with NACHI.
Russ,
Since the basement walls were not wet and there was no strucural detrioration i did not comment on this condition. I did not indicate as to a reason why this was apparent. Was just wondering if others have seen and'or commented on this condition when it was not structurally or moisture significant. Sure, it doesn't look good, but that is just aesthetic.

The power vent was installed with proper clearances from wood members. Notice the size of the flange.

--
Allen J. Halstead

Tri-County Home Inspections
Ghent, NY

"...for your peace of mind..."

Back to Top
ahalstead
NACHI Member: No
(as of 3/25/07)
Inactive Poster
Posts: 56
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 9:35 AM       Post Subject:

Please Note: This user is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with NACHI.
Russ,
Since the basement walls were not wet and there was no strucural detrioration i did not comment on this condition. I did not indicate as to a reason why this was apparent. Was just wondering if others have seen and'or commented on this condition when it was not structurally or moisture significant. Sure, it doesn't look good, but that is just aesthetic.

The power vent was installed with proper clearances from wood members. Notice the size of the flange.

--
Allen J. Halstead

Tri-County Home Inspections
Ghent, NY

"...for your peace of mind..."

Back to Top
Jay Moge
NACHI Member: No
(as of 3/25/07)
Very Active Poster
Posts: 694
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 5:20 PM       Post Subject:

Please Note: This user is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with NACHI.
I saw this in a house that was owned and built by the same guy (a very reputiable builder some years ago.) he told me that it's coused by a high ph. in the soil that was backfilled to the foundation too soon and then as it settled, you see this. but again he was very good "back in the day" icon_cool.gif icon_wink.gif
Back to Top
Mark Long

Peace of Mind Home Inspections
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 166
User: mlong
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 7:14 PM       Post Subject:
ahalstead wrote:
The power vent was installed with proper clearances from wood members. Notice the size of the flange.


I don't want to be-labor this, but did you actually read the manufacture's regs on this? From the picture it appears as if the vent is just a few inches below the wood shakes. While this type of venting can come through a wood wall with the proper flanges, clearences, etc., and can be mounted directly on the wall, again with the proper flange, normally if there is a combustable directlyabove the vent, my experience has been that the manufacture's regs usually require 18" clearance. For example, if the vent was further up the wall near the soffit, the top of the vent would have to be 18" below the soffit. Of course, there are various systems out there, and I can't really tell what this is, but I thought it might warrant a second thought.

--
Mark Long
Peace of Mind Home Inspections
http://www.pomhi.net

Back to Top
Larry Kage

Welcome Home Inspection Services, LLC
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 1150
User: lkage
Posted: Aug 24, 2005 6:11 AM       Post Subject:
mlong wrote:
... my experience has been that the manufacture's regs usually require 18" clearance. For example, if the vent was further up the wall near the soffit, the top of the vent would have to be 18" below the soffit.


I just read one the other day...18" to combustible soffit...12" to metal soffit.

--
"I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him."
Galileo Galilei

Back to Top
Leigh Goodman

A Smart Buyer Home Inspection
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 84
User: lgoodman
Posted: Aug 24, 2005 7:39 AM       Post Subject:
Is there an issue with the power vent below the window? I Have searched for clearances and didn't find an answer. Will CO be drawn into the window when opened?
Back to Top
Marcel Cyr

Cyr Home Inspections
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 795
User: mcyr
Posted: Aug 25, 2005 6:05 PM       Post Subject:
icon_smile.gif icon_smile.gif
Allen, I have read these post and wonder.

The final answer would be to report;
Concrete foundation is delaminating and the cause of the problem should be further evaluated by a Structural Engineer.

I will elaborate and hopefully not bore you, that the pictures I viewed showed me that drainage is a factor.

The exhaust at that location will only affect the shingles above it with vapor intrusion.

The foundation was most likely poured using 2500 PSI concrete with air entrainment of less than 5% and a high slump which would indicate a cement /water ratio of higher than that of the 0.35% that is normally called for.
With all these combinations or inadequate performance, what you see in the pictures is what you get. Sorry.

Russel; appreciate the fact of the SOP requirements.

Jay; you were B. S.'d. sorry.

Talk to you guys later and hope the information is helpful.
Sorry, no quotes or spec. section, or reference #'s available.
Takes to much of my time to look up.
Just off the cuff.

Marcel
Back to Top
Jay Moge
NACHI Member: No
(as of 3/25/07)
Very Active Poster
Posts: 694
Posted: Aug 25, 2005 6:18 PM       Post Subject:

Please Note: This user is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with NACHI.
that could very well be, i thought it stange too, but i didn't know any better. and in some way kinda made a little sense. oh well, live and learn. icon_redface.gif
Back to Top
ahalstead
NACHI Member: No
(as of 3/25/07)
Inactive Poster
Posts: 56
Posted: Aug 25, 2005 7:55 PM       Post Subject:

Please Note: This user is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with NACHI.
Marcel,

I poured hundreds of thousands of yards in my day (Nuclear waste facilities, Medical Procedure buildings, College science buildings, etc)l I recognized the cause of the spalling (delaminating) immediatly and agree with everything you said about psi and slump, still holding out on the air entrainment as being a cause. Anyway, I was not concerned about cause inasmuch as what other people may have written about such conditions. Bottom line, the house is constructed using steel I beam for a main beam and steel floor joists. 3300 square foot house (single story) and the foundation had 1 hairline crack which had epoxy injected ... It is 35 years old, has had water mitigation systems installed so the basement now has absolutely no signs of dampness ever being a problem. obviously structurally sound, all mechanicals were replaced within 5 years (boiler in 1999) .. There was no structural problem here at all .. I chose not to say anything more than the fact that it was an aesthetic problem only at this time ..

--
Allen J. Halstead

Tri-County Home Inspections
Ghent, NY

"...for your peace of mind..."

Back to Top
Marcel Cyr

Cyr Home Inspections
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 795
User: mcyr
Posted: Aug 25, 2005 8:27 PM       Post Subject:
icon_smile.gif
Allen I did not intend to be offensive.

I personally poured thousands of cubic yards of concrete myself and also a field concrete testing technician.

The pictures still dictate that the delaminating was caused by poor cement content, high slump, low air entrainment, high water absorption, and I can keep going.

As an HI, Recommend assessment from a qualified structural engineer for cause of delaminating, based on the 35 year old age of this structure.
Back to Top
ahalstead
NACHI Member: No
(as of 3/25/07)
Inactive Poster
Posts: 56
Posted: Aug 25, 2005 10:15 PM       Post Subject:

Please Note: This user is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with NACHI.
marcel,
No offense taken ...sorruy if my post reflected such ..

ah

--
Allen J. Halstead

Tri-County Home Inspections
Ghent, NY

"...for your peace of mind..."

Back to Top
Marcel Cyr

Cyr Home Inspections
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 795
User: mcyr
Posted: Aug 26, 2005 2:43 PM       Post Subject:
icon_smile.gif icon_smile.gif

Thank you Allen.

Thinking of this scenario today, and thought, with today's technology, testing agencies can take a core sample and identify the exact cause of this problem.
I suppose as an HI, that it would be also possible to refer the client to such testing agency to find the cause if they wish.

Let me know if anything comes out of this that would reflect the cause of the problem. I would appreciate it to ease the ?.

Thank you

Marcel
Back to Top
Christopher Windsor

Certified Residential Inspector
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 1
User: cwindsor
Posted: Aug 28, 2005 10:26 PM       Post Subject:
Leigh Goodman
Is there an issue with the power vent below the window? I Have searched for clearances and didn't find an answer. Will CO be drawn into the window when opened?
You are right this is a concern!

I am an inspector in southern Ontario and in my area the clearance for a gas wall furnace vent below a window is 12". I got this from a gas fitter so you should be able to contact one in your area to get your answer.I always leave with more than I came for when I inquire from tradespeople.

note:I always get at least 2 conformations on safety issues
Back to Top
Go to page: Previous 1 2 Next