Letter to Minister Fontana

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Letter to Minister Fontana

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Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
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Posted: Nov 27, 2005 8:34 AM       Post Subject:
duplicate post removed, read last post on page 4.
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Roy Cooke

Roys Home Inspection
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Posted: Nov 27, 2005 10:10 AM       Post Subject:
Why should we even think CHIBO can work when we have the CAHPI spokesperson who runs a private BB that promotes hate, gives false information and if challenged removes those who DARE dispute the false information given?

Why would a spokesperson need to intimidate those who do ask for correct information.

This results in that they just give up asking questions.

Not a Great way for a director to treat those who are concerned with the home inspection industry.

Looks more like a dictator then a director, not to mention no one has been able thus far to provide any conclusive proof they are empowered to act for the rest of us.

Decisions are being made from 40 replies ( 20 ) from Ontario,where it is a proven fact given under OATH that many directors and committee members ignore their own rules?

Why should we hope the future could be any better, under CAHPI we have seen for ourselves how they conduct themselves.


Those in power still do not answer mail or give the members a true financial statement, many outstanding complaints are still being ignored!


CAHPI/ONTARIO gives very little back for free to the membership, it bases its power on money and intimidation.


They also charge big money for all training programs web site additions and listings.


Don't loose your renewal package or be one day late renewing your membership each can cost you over $25.00

I understand dues are going up again for nothing in return, what benefits has CAHPI provided over the years?


I welcome replies from any one Roycooke@sympatico.ca

NACHI Where the TRUTH prevails!

Roy Cooke sr.
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Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
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Posted: Nov 27, 2005 11:01 AM       Post Subject:
CHIBO the budgie says....


Awk, too many questions, awk, too many questions.
CHIBO wants a cracker, awk.

I am teaching CHIBO to say, "no answers!"

icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
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W Paul Blakey

The HomeTeam Inspection Service
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Posted: Nov 27, 2005 11:22 AM       Post Subject:
Oh well, it's all up in the air anyway, since there will be another election soon and most likely another minority government, so nothing is going to happen legislation-wise for some time.

In the interim I think it would be a good idea for individual NACHI members to continue writing to the minister, encouraging him politely to include NACHI in the further discussions.

I think the key here is to be courteous (regardless of what may or may not have been said by individuals in the past) and polite.
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Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
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Posted: Nov 27, 2005 4:02 PM       Post Subject:
Actually I am really interested in how this whole Certification is going to affect my business?

It seems from what I have gathered from the documents, the insurance and mortgage companies, et al, will be providing a great deal of input in how we should be formulating our reporting methods and possibly our SOP?

Comments?

Thanks,
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
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Roy Cooke

Roys Home Inspection
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Posted: Nov 27, 2005 6:34 PM       Post Subject:
rwand1 wrote:
Actually I am really interested in how this whole Certification is going to affect my business?

It seems from what I have gathered from the documents, the insurance and mortgage companies, et al, will be providing a great deal of input in how we should be formulating our reporting methods and possibly our SOP?

Comments?

Thanks,
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON


I have looked at the CHIBO October 2005 and wonder????
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Executive Summary
" groups that could exert strong pressure for the national certification of home and property inspectors include:
Mortgage Lenders
Realtors
Property Insurers
Provincial Regulators
Professional liability Insurance Underwriters "
"This report assumes CAHPI will hold the right to Certify."
"include the large number of home and property inspectors"
" cost of conducting background review"

Page 5
( Realtors ) "These companies could require that inspectors be nationally certified."
Professional liability Insurance Underwriters
" Alternatively,underwriters may provide preferred rates to home and property inspectors who are members of a CAHPI Provincial Association"

Page 6
Step 1
" A large number of home and property inspection courses and programs delivered by both public and private sector training providers were reviewed"

Page 7
Step 3:
"The review covered accreditation models currently used by:
Provincial associations of home and property inspectors
Home and property associations in the United States
Provincial associations for individuals working in similar occupations, such as professional building officials "
Page 8

Page 14
"TPA results
national total 60
Ontario 20"

Page 16
Authority to Certify
"Authority to certify maybe granted through legislation or simply assumed by a national organization"

Page 18 ethics
" CAHPI has developed a code of Ethics and Standard of Practice for the HPI occupation"

Page 37 Implementation
" In order to reflect the significant financial and in-kind contributions made by CAHPI and its provincial members and volunteers, some fees could be different for members and non-members."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am very nervous with what I read and feel that the 20 members from Ontario have had a lot of input in this Initiative.

I also think that most if not all where BOD and committee members of CAHPI/ONTARIO. I also expect that the other 40 members across Canada where also CAHPI Members
This is far from a balanced group that could effect the home inspection.
industry.

I feel 20% of the Canadian Home inspectors belong to CAHPI and this could be a very BIAS and slanted group.

I also wonder about Realtors , ,Mortgage Lenders,Property Insurers,provincial regulators, and Professional Insurance Underwriters
having the ability
" could exert strong pressure for the national certification "

on page 5 " This report assumes CAHPI will hold the right to certify."
My past dealing with CAHPI has proven they did and still do not follow their own bylaws.

Why would we expect them too be different in the future?

Thanks to NACHI for providing a place that all Canadian Home Inspectors can gather much information .
Fortunately this information was put on the NACHI site, it still has not been told to most Canadian inspectors any where else.

Roy Cooke sr

A HAPPY NACHI member
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Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
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Posted: Nov 28, 2005 7:50 AM       Post Subject:
Roy

All very legitimate concerns! Everyone should be concerned about what is "assumed."

Personally I would like to know how Carson Dunlop can state Seneca HI course meets the CHIBO Certification? How can any of this meet any criteria when it is not even a finnished document and many, many unanswered questions. Are the statements made by Seneca because of who sits on the National or is it based on assumptions? Hmmmm.

Does anyone else have difficulties with that? Am I reading that right?

Thanks,

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
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Roy Cooke

Roys Home Inspection
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Posted: Nov 28, 2005 6:57 PM       Post Subject:
Just for the record I am not against licensing , Certification or Accreditation .

Call it what you want . Self run or Government run .

I just feel it must be kept arms length from the Canadian Associations.

I feel they could care less about the average home inspector .

Their past and present actions prove this.

I also feel all inspectors must continue to take upgrade courses.

Roy Cooke sr.
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Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
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Posted: Nov 29, 2005 7:58 AM       Post Subject:
With a vote of non confidence this whole project will be on hold because there will be no further spending. Mr. Fontana if re-elected may not be the Minister responsible for this department and likely if the Liberals win there will likely be a new Minister installed and most likely a review of projects and funding will be undertaken.

Time for this country to get on with proper management and accountability. The record of the Liberals and their largesse has come to an end and not soon enough!

Very concerned about other industries as indicated above having input into our profession and shaping a Certification plan. It sure seems those professions are and will be given more weight than inspectors themselves. This is not right and much more information needs to be forthcoming in that regard. I don't think we as a profession should be lap dogs to any industry nor should a few non elected people on CAHPI be making such grave decisions on our behalf, regardless what promises are made.

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
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Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
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Posted: Nov 29, 2005 8:57 AM       Post Subject:
From another forum...

https://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/t/topic.asp10.htm

Knowledge is power. Silence is golden.

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
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Roy Cooke

Roys Home Inspection
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Posted: Nov 29, 2005 9:54 AM       Post Subject:
It looks like again I and others are again being accused of making false statements regarding the CHIBO 11 Project.

If I am making false statements then I and others are reading the CHIBO11 incorectly or it has wrong info in it.

If I was to receive the " corrected information ?" .I would be pleased to post it for all to see.

If ? any errors have been posted the reason is there seems to have been a big secret about the CHIBO11 all along and very little information has or is being given out.

I encourage all inspectors both inside and outside of CAHPI to look at this certification program with jandus eyes as past performance has proven that those in power have been noted to slant things very much.

I would love to think that CAHPI is also very resolved to ensuring that the entire certification process is fair and open to all.

Roy Cooke sr .
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Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
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Posted: Nov 29, 2005 10:20 AM       Post Subject:
No matter what I say or you say or others say it is made out to be the wrong info. I read the document and I came away with a totally different take on things.

Maybe Claude can clear things up. After all he is the only person with credibility on this issue.

Decisions are being made that supposedly will affect your livelihood and there has been no request from CAHPI for input, nor is there apparently any need for input by anyone in the profession because decisions are and have been made behind closed doors.

It is your right as a taxpayer and a inspector to question documents which will supposedly affect your business. Don't let others decide what may or may not be good for you.

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
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Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
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Posted: Dec 1, 2005 7:37 AM       Post Subject:
Gee it sure is amazing what some in Oahi and CAHPI will do when they don't like people stating their opinions on CHIBO. Seems they will stoop to new levels to discredit and intimidate members and use any and all excuses to justify the means, even if it is contrary to law and ethical behaviour. It is nice to see at least three members of OAHI/CAHPI have no scrupples and no ethics.

Would you trust a Certification Body that is made up of people of this ilk?

It is so sad to see a self regulating body granted under government legislation flaunt the by-laws in an attempt to silence people.

Be vigilant.

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
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Claude Lawrenson

Ontario Home Inspections Inc.
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Posted: Dec 1, 2005 10:30 PM       Post Subject:
Perhaps in reading the report, some may feel a slightly different take than that of the words and intent of the document. One needs to realize the objectives of the initiative and measure the outcomes stated in the document as being sufficiently satisfied. The modelling to the CAN-P-9 standards set the benchmark that is widely recognized as an extremely rigorous requirement. That speaks for itself. The consultants are professionals and in my opinion - did an outstanding service that represents the best interest of all home inspectors - regardless of association, or membership or affiliation or lack thereof.

On another side note, if "we" could collectively focus on the report, and set aside the past issues, we may perhaps realize that the discussions often get muddied by prior experiences. No one is trying to take those away, from those dealings. In my opinion they are totally separate and very distinct issues.

The absolute facts of the initiative remain the same:
1) it states the primary objective; it states the 4 steps and offers the model proposed to resolve and implement the process - it provides the means to achieve those goals
2) it indicates it as a voluntary process
3) nothing can guarantee its impact on your business anymore than trying to guarantee your future
4) you have a right to question the document, but perhaps in giving or asking "specific" questions may help in getting "specific" answers, than again point #5 below applies
5) I am not the "official" spokesperson, or expert, but merely one person who sat on this committee representing a national sector and offered what I consider valuable input in the process; hopefully I can state my personal viewpoint but it should not be taken as the official statement of CAHPI National
6) myself along with the other committee members realize the importance of fairness and equity requirements enshrined by law - for one and all, to undermine and suggest otherwise is unfortunate, and only serves to diminish the credibility of competent members representing many others
7) this is CAHPI initiative, take it or not - the choice is for each and every home inspector in Canada to decide; it simply reverts back to point #2
icon_cool.gif CAHPI National is not OAHI or CAHPI-Ontario
8 even the CHIBO committee was comprised on "SECTOR" based representatives, even if a member was from OAHI, it was not the only voice at the table - so dragging up old issues has nothing to do with this initiaitive - those are strictly matters between those parties
9) CAHPI National is moving forward with this project, regardless of statements here that may suggest otherwise, and regardless of the current opinion of Canadain politics/political climate
10) from document page iii - "All roles and responsibilities related to the National Certification Program will be aligned with CAN-P-9 criteria."

Again this is my own personal opinion, with a large part based on facts through personal experience and from extraction from the project report.
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Roy Cooke

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Posted: Dec 1, 2005 10:36 PM       Post Subject:
Thanks Claude I really do appreciate your post.

Whether we agree or disagree at least you have the courtesy to try and give us some of your thoughts .

Thanks again Roy sr
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Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
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Posted: Dec 2, 2005 7:16 AM       Post Subject:
This just in from another discussion board...

Quote:
Bill.Mullen


Posted - 12/01/2005 : 22:12:51 Quote
We want to create a Q & A document so inspectors can learn more about the certification process.

CAHPI invites people to submit your questions so they can be included in our information packages. Those in charge and on various committees will try to answer all questions. We are not looking for challenges to the model, because the research and development work is done; we have now started the implementation part of the project.

Please send questions to Bill Mullen at cahpi1@yahoo.ca
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Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
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Posted: Dec 2, 2005 7:51 AM       Post Subject:
Quote:
Perhaps in reading the report, some may feel a slightly different take than that of the words and intent of the document. One needs to realize the objectives of the initiative and measure the outcomes stated in the document as being sufficiently satisfied. The modelling to the CAN-P-9 standards set the benchmark that is widely recognized as an extremely rigorous requirement. That speaks for itself. The consultants are professionals and in my opinion - did an outstanding service that represents the best interest of all home inspectors - regardless of association, or membership or affiliation or lack thereof.


But it still needs to be audited, right? So without the audit we really don'tk now whether all is ticky boo, right?

Quote:
On another side note, if "we" could collectively focus on the report, and set aside the past issues, we may perhaps realize that the discussions often get muddied by prior experiences. No one is trying to take those away, from those dealings. In my opinion they are totally separate and very distinct issues.


Well I am not sure that is entirely true, but I am listening.

Quote:
The absolute facts of the initiative remain the same:


Quote:
1) it states the primary objective; it states the 4 steps and offers the model proposed to resolve and implement the process - it provides the means to achieve those goals


Proposed? What about changes?

Quote:
2) it indicates it as a voluntary process


It may be voluntary, but it seems some have taken their mandates to extremes. The attitude by some has been this is my "baby" and I will call the tunes.


Quote:
3) nothing can guarantee its impact on your business anymore than trying to guarantee your future


I can see what you mean, but would you buy a car without test driving it, knowing how it will handel, what it can and can't do, does the cost fit with in your means?

Quote:
4) you have a right to question the document, but perhaps in giving or asking "specific" questions may help in getting "specific" answers, than again point #5 below applies


Quote:
5) I am not the "official" spokesperson, or expert, but merely one person who sat on this committee representing a national sector and offered what I consider valuable input in the process; hopefully I can state my personal viewpoint but it should not be taken as the official statement of CAHPI National


Who is the official spokesperson? Please don't tell me it is Bill Mullens. Well who is going to parlay the official statement? NACHI has no committments from CAHPI. I don't think NACHI members should be deluded, we have reason to question the intent and actions of the so called spokesperson. He continues to bring animosities to the forum along with his side kick. If you have been on the CAFE you can see for yourself the attitude and the bias and ignorance. It most certainly appears that there is reasonable apprehension of bias by a few directors and few others who seem to be calling the shots. It is so rife with negligence and liable and bias by the very people who are by their office suppose to be objective! They can't seem to follow the by-laws nor administer them in a dilligent manner. So you see why those in Ontario cannot be assured of fair and impartial assessment. You have a problem in Ontario with OAHI.

Quote:
6) myself along with the other committee members realize the importance of fairness and equity requirements enshrined by law - for one and all, to undermine and suggest otherwise is unfortunate, and only serves to diminish the credibility of competent members representing many others
That is fine and dandy but reread number 5 again. Then log onto the CAFE and see how they ignore their own rules. Seems some can get away with questionable conduct condoned by at least one director. Who is going to assure me of my rights and fair and unbiased assessment?

Quote:
7) this is CAHPI initiative, take it or not - the choice is for each and every home inspector in Canada to decide; it simply reverts back to point #2


If its voluntary then it does not carry much weight. Just like self regulation in OAHI. Self regulation means nothing, it has no weight and the legislation does not serve the public, it serves the Association and the management.
I have big reservations, and I would still rather be licensed.

Quote:
icon_cool.gif CAHPI National is not OAHI or CAHPI-Ontario
8 even the CHIBO committee was comprised on "SECTOR" based representatives, even if a member was from OAHI, it was not the only voice at the table - so dragging up old issues has nothing to do with this initiaitive - those are strictly matters between those parties


The old issues must be proven to be looked after. A new broom is needed to get rid of the myopic dictators who can't get out of the rut of malice.

Sorry Claude that is not what I am seeing. It certainly seems some have more weight than others and can say and do as they please. If OAHI is already rife with animosities, no one can be assured of fairness because the stone has been cast. But that is not being critical of you. You have a problem, I see it, others see it. Maybe you don't. If people are currently abusing their positions of power as they appear to be doing on the CAFE your words are simply that words. You and CAHPI and OAHI have a problem.

Quote:
9) CAHPI National is moving forward with this project, regardless of statements here that may suggest otherwise, and regardless of the current opinion of Canadain politics/political climate


That remains to be seen. I don't know how you can make those promises any more than I can say this is a fair process. It ain't over till the fat lady sings. NACHI participation is critical. Without NACHI and others who are not aligned I think CHIBO is a white Elephant. It won't be cost effective for less than a 500 members to be involved with. I have problems digesting the numbers.

Quote:
10) from document page iii - "All roles and responsibilities related to the National Certification Program will be aligned with CAN-P-9 criteria."


You mean the audited version or the unofficial, un audited version that we don't know meets the criteria because it is not audited. If it isn't audited we only have your say so. I am a lay person when it comes to CAN-P-9.

Quote:
Again this is my own personal opinion, with a large part based on facts through personal experience and from extraction from the project report.


My personal opinions too, but like I said from what I can see and what is allowed to go on in OAHI which is an affiliate of CAHPI there are serious problems that must be rectified asap.

Thanks Claude your explanations help.

Cheers.

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
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Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
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User: rwand1
Posted: Dec 2, 2005 8:12 AM       Post Subject:
My personal opinion but no one from Nachi should be sending anything to Mr. Mullens, questions, suggestions or otherwise. I think the questions should go to the President of CAHPI Mr. Mike Guihan. email: president@cahpi.ca

We have no proof from CAHPI who is the official spokesperson, other then what we are fed here on this forum.

Claude this is not directed at you.

Cheers,

Raymond Wand R.H.I./C.H.I
Alton, ON
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Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
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Posted: Dec 2, 2005 10:08 AM       Post Subject:
http://www.raymondwand.ca/page1Cafe.html
http://www.raymondwand.ca/page2Cafe.html

As you can see some pretty serious accusations and allegations have been made by the Editor of the Canadian Home Inspectors Magazine against me, with the assistance of the Forum Administrator and a Director in OAHI.

It would seem to me these people have condoned libelous statements, and have thrown objectivity out the window.

If this is the way they treat me, and they will be the people to oversee Certification in Ontario, even though a voluntary certification, it would appear they have already formed their opinions and show reasonable apprehension of bias.

If they can treat a senior member of Oahi in such a manner for my outspokeness, and questioning, how will they treat you?

As I have said before and will say again, the members in NACHI should be vigilant and question what you are being told by those in CAHPI-Ontario.

These are my personal opinions.

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
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Roy Cooke

Roys Home Inspection
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User: rcooke
Posted: Dec 2, 2005 10:40 AM       Post Subject:
I personaly feel the best for all Home Inspectors is to just ignore the CHIBO 11.
Regardless of what Claude says, OAHI, CAHPI, CAHPI/ONTARIO is being run by a group who continue to take their members for a ride.

How could we even hope to get a fair shake from these Demi Gods when they treat every one with distane .
They do not answer letters .
They do not follow their own rules .
They do not follow up on charges laid .

I have proof for all the statements I have just made.

I am Seventy years old and dedicated to revealing the truth .
CHIBO will not effect me but I am trying to look out for the future of the Home Inspection Industry in Canada.

In my opinion there is no way that this can ever suceed with out the help of all Canadian inspectors.
I expect Canadian Home Inspectors will do much better with out those who could care less about you.

this is a very important place 1500 hits in two weeks now over 3000
Roy sr.
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