Letter to Minister Fontana

These message board pages are now for archival purposes only. Please visit https://www.nachi.org/forum/ for our most recent forum discussions.

Letter to Minister Fontana

AuthorMessage
Roy Cooke

Roys Home Inspection
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 1987
User: rcooke
Posted: Nov 9, 2005 3:40 PM       Post Subject:
lwillick wrote:
True Raymond.
However CMHC by posting only CAHPI on their website information, inadvertently are advising realtors to only refer to CAHPI. This does affect your bottom line.
Regards
larry

So strange CMHC is saying that CAHPI ( this includes CAHPI/ONTARIO)
is going to be the group that looks after the National Certification.

CMHC sure has not done their home work this group leaves a lot to be desired .
They still do not answer some letters from members and non members .
When complaints are laid following their own bylaws they just continue to do nothing.
They continue to treat up and coming inspectors as cash cow and milk these poor souls for many dollars.
The future looks bad for Canadian HI's if it comes to this group getting control.
I understand some ( Not NACHI ) members are contemplating going to court if this happens.
The CAHPI web site has the CHIBO 11 Project on their web site 91 pages http://www.cahpi.ca/
Back to Top
Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 447
User: rwand1
Posted: Nov 9, 2005 3:45 PM       Post Subject:
Still doesn't affect my bottom line, and won't be affecting my bottom line.

--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca

Back to Top
Claude Lawrenson

Ontario Home Inspections Inc.
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 684
User: clawrenson
Posted: Nov 9, 2005 8:19 PM       Post Subject:
Roy respectfully that is not my take. So I simply disagree on this part of your statement.
Quote:
So strange CMHC is saying that CAHPI ( this includes CAHPI/ONTARIO) is going to be the group that looks after the National Certification.


For clarification: OAHI/ CAHPI-Ontario is a member and sets its own higher benchmark for certification, not any different than NACHI chooses to set its own or would any other provincial association such as CAHPI-BC, and so on.
I suggest that one needs to put the whole document in context and realize the purpose of raising the performance level of home inspectors to one recognized standard as a suitable starting point in the business regardless of affiliation or not. As Ray states possibly having no impact on his business as it currently sits. It does not and should threaten any home inspector. It should however give one an idea of why and where home inspection standards are going for future initiatives to improve our lot.

Again for clarification - I choose not to respond on the rest of your comments. I think your point has been aired well enough in the past.

--
Ontario Home Inspections Inc.

Back to Top
Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 447
User: rwand1
Posted: Nov 9, 2005 8:57 PM       Post Subject:
Gee I wonder an election in Canada will do to the largesse of the Liberal Federal Government? nachi_sarcasm.gif

No one has proven beyond reasonable doubt CHIBO is or will be the success its suppose to be. There are many unanswered questions and clearly the document fails to provide answers. If this was the much touted big surprise at the National Conference in Niagara Falls, I think it fizzled. The fanfare was bigger than the release. Ooooooops, did I say that? Oh I guess I did. Oh my..
icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif

Still have many reservations (no pun intended). But like I said its not going to affect my business, and no one has proven so, just more utopia pie. icon_wink.gif

Everybody Loves Raymond.

--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca

Back to Top
Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 447
User: rwand1
Posted: Nov 10, 2005 7:08 AM       Post Subject:
Quoteable quotes......from the CHIBO document....

This report assumes CAHPI will hold the right to certify.

An article on the CAN-P-9 Standard by Penny Silberhorn, Canadian Standards Board, states:
?This comprehensive standard lays out the general operating requirements for the certification body, including provisions for a management system. It describes conditions for application, examinations, surveillances and recertification. And, it specifies the requisites for independence of training from certification, confidentiality of information, competence of staff and subcontractors, and the need for stakeholder input into certification schemes.?

Source ?Calibre?, Winter 2002 Issue


The national certification and accreditation model for home and property inspectors is intended to comply reasonably closely with CAN-P-9 criteria as published by the Standards Council of Canada. This does not guarantee or ensure that the model is in complete compliance with CAN-P-9 criteria.

In order to determine whether or not this model is in complete compliance with CAN-P-9 criteria, it would be necessary for the National Certification Body to undergo a comprehensive audit conducted by a firm
qualified to conduct ISO audits. Such an audit is outside the scope of this project.


Ethics and Professional Standards

A key component of the national certification program is ?ethics and professional standards?. Ethics and professional standards provide the public with assurance that individuals who are within a national certification program will abide by a set of rules and be governed by standards of practice that are enforceable. This component of national certification is part of the CAN-P-9 criteria.


Note: Nice to have ethics and professional standards, but it means diddly under the current regime of administration. Equality yes, double standards - NO!.

National Certification Body

CAHPI will act as the National Certification Body for home and property inspectors. CAHPI has declared it will take the steps necessary to comply with CAN-P-9 criteria. Note: CAN-P-9 certification is outside the scope and is not part of this project.


Thats just a few questionable items in CHIBO release. So confusing and complicated.

I'll post more as time becomes available. It sure appears some are trying to cast their mark on those affiliated with this small group and those not affiliated or with other associations.

Everybody Loves Raymond. (well okay.., maybe not everyone)

--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca

Back to Top
Claude Lawrenson

Ontario Home Inspections Inc.
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 684
User: clawrenson
Posted: Nov 10, 2005 7:48 AM       Post Subject:
Perhaps written with an open mind in legalese to stop those that feel the need to attack it. It helps to keep an open mind, with anything put in writing for public consumption. With the passing of time, the level of detail becomes less pronounced and it becomes easier to make other connections.

--
Ontario Home Inspections Inc.

Back to Top
John Bowman
Executive Director
NACHI Member: Staff
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 2502
Posted: Nov 10, 2005 7:55 AM       Post Subject:
Deleted because I can.
Back to Top
Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 447
User: rwand1
Posted: Nov 10, 2005 8:03 AM       Post Subject:
Need to attack?

Seems to me this little project has been funded by taxpayers money, not to mention money through membership dues. It is anything but clear and is muddled in contradictory and presumptive lingo. Not to mention all those contradictory messages being sent out.

Yes with the passing of time the level of detail has not become any clearer. What appears to be occuring is more confusion, uncertainty, a bureaucracy in the making. Yes this document isn't any more easier to make connections than all the other drafts which have proceeded this one.

There still remains the concern that a good part of this document has been produced without sufficient survey results. The minimum for statistical purposes is I believe one thousand responses so that adequate and justifiable margins of error can be reliable. It is unfortunate in my opinion our Federal Government has bought this hook, line and sinker.

--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca

Back to Top
Roy Cooke

Roys Home Inspection
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 1987
User: rcooke
Posted: Nov 10, 2005 8:13 AM       Post Subject:
clawrenson wrote:
Perhaps written with an open mind in legalese to stop those that feel the need to attack it. It helps to keep an open mind, with anything put in writing for public consumption. With the passing of time, the level of detail becomes less pronounced and it becomes easier to make other connections.


Sorry Claude but I feel that to have the Canadian Home inspection industry controlled by the CAPHI, CAHPI /ONTARIO could be a travesty.
Past records show that they are not capable of following their own rules and the rules of common sense.

You say let the past be, but wrongdoing should never be forgotten - until it is proven that those in power have changed.
This has not happened, those in power continue to talk about NACHI and its members with hatred.
We have no defense when members of Bill Mullens forum come to the NACHI open to all site, take information back and show destain for NICK, NACHI and its members.
I do feel those who wish to lead the National Initiative have an ulterior motive.
I also disappointed that decisions are being made that effect so many from so few, less than 5% (60 of 1300) CAHPI members.
There are far more non-members of CAHPI in Canada and they have had no say in their future, as CAHPI sees it.
This to me is far from a democratic way to run things.
Those who are making decisions have shown they are quite capable of slanting the truth continually, and do call me and others who wish fair treatment as liars.
Until CAHPI/Ontario leads by example and clean up their own house they should not be allowed to be involved with my and others futures.
Yes, I have proof of what I have said and stand behind all my statements.

If YOU!!! are not part of the solution then YOU!!! are part of the PROBLEM!!!!
Back to Top
Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 447
User: rwand1
Posted: Nov 10, 2005 8:17 AM       Post Subject:
Oh and just to be on record, it is amazing how OAHI and what appears to be collusion with CAHPI and a Director in OAHI by the name of Andrew Bennett can under the guise of suspending withtout due process or just cause or adherence to the by-laws from the OAHI CAFE forum to silence any info coming out about the National, CHIBO or anyother info they do not wish the membership to be aware of. Does anyone in Ontario want to be overseen by over zealous people? Seems some are willing to stiffle any free thought under the directorship and ego of incompetency, or any form of questioning, and strive to release only the info they want released to support their power base and special interests.

--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca

Back to Top
Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 447
User: rwand1
Posted: Nov 10, 2005 8:22 AM       Post Subject:
Roy opined...

Quote:
Until CAHPI/Ontario leads by example and clean up their own house they should not be allowed to be involved with my and others futures.


Why would they want to do that? It is obvious some enjoy being drunk with power, and total disregard for rules. You can't lead by example when there is no one willing to set an example. And quite frankly I haven't seen any examples around, unless of course anyone else has. icon_redface.gif

--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca

Back to Top
Roy Cooke

Roys Home Inspection
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 1987
User: rcooke
Posted: Nov 11, 2005 10:39 PM       Post Subject:
rwand1 wrote:
Oh and just to be on record, it is amazing how OAHI and what appears to be collusion with CAHPI and a Director in OAHI by the name of Andrew Bennett can under the guise of suspending withtout due process or just cause or adherence to the by-laws from the OAHI CAFE forum to silence any info coming out about the National, CHIBO or anyother info they do not wish the membership to be aware of. Does anyone in Ontario want to be overseen by over zealous people? Seems some are willing to stiffle any free thought under the directorship and ego of incompetency, or any form of questioning, and strive to release only the info they want released to support their power base and special interests.


Unfortunately this is just one example of many that the Board of Directors of OAHI /CAHPI/ONTARIO
ignores their own rules and the rules of COMMON SENSE.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At least Claude speaks his mind he is the only one with the courage to give an opinion.
I do not always agree with him but do respect for his stance.
--
Back to Top
Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 447
User: rwand1
Posted: Nov 12, 2005 8:40 AM       Post Subject:
The ASHI's of the north have much to learn about openess and inclusion and the right to dissemninate timely and informative info. If you like intimidation, bullying, stupidity, poor management, and egos, ASHI north has a place for you! Of course judging by the lack of in-depth discussion of the CHIBO amongst Canadians there is a total lack of interest and ignorance. Many do not care, don't want to care, and are freightened to speak up. There has been more interest and discussion on the NACHI board about CHIBO, much to the dismay of ASHI north.

Next ASHI north will want everyone to wear a uniform, read Mien Kempf, and be told how to think. Ya gotta love the power tripping and ignorance of some of the leadership. The best excuse I have heard from Mr. Bennett a director with OAHI is, " I am a volunteer, and I don't get paid." Don't you just love it when someone with that caliber of thinking actually has to express it to justify an existance? The question that begs to be asked is why would anyone run for the Board of Directors if that is what they think? I guess it boils down to power tripping and trying to make oneself look intelligent. I guess you can't be too intelligent when one is surronded by fools. Oh my what a brash statement. icon_wink.gif

--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca

Back to Top
Larry Willick

CBI Canadian Building Inspections, Ltd.
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 149
User: lwillick
Posted: Nov 12, 2005 1:54 PM       Post Subject:
Raymond:

If I want to take a trip to Florida. Or to sunny California on business as an executive of an organization and all my expenses are paid. That means I am getting paid. The rank and file membership that pays the dues do not get to go on these trips. But I as an director or executive do. So how can they say they don't get renumeration ?

Larry
Back to Top
Roy Cooke

Roys Home Inspection
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 1987
User: rcooke
Posted: Nov 12, 2005 3:09 PM       Post Subject:
lwillick wrote:
Raymond:

If I want to take a trip to Florida. Or to sunny California on business as an executive of an organization and all my expenses are paid. That means I am getting paid. The rank and file membership that pays the dues do not get to go on these trips. But I as an director or executive do. So how can they say they don't get renumeration ?

Larry

Paid you bet they are.
They teach courses to the students and 90% of them never become full Time inspectors.
Many of the directors make more money teaching then most home inspectors could ever hope to make.
The old story the squeaky wheel gets the grease I guess that's why they make lots of noise.
Why do think they have refused to have a proper audit for many years.
Two treasurers in recent past quit in mid term because of improprieties.
Back to Top
Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 447
User: rwand1
Posted: Nov 12, 2005 5:25 PM       Post Subject:
Larry unfortunately many who serve on boards of self regulating bodies are not usually the best choice for knowledgeable leadership in my opinion. You have to appreciate home inspectors are just that; home inspectors. Not the best choice to manage the affairs of a self regulating body. For anyone in this day and age to be a home inspector let alone a director one would think the standard of care would be high.

I did find this and thought it was interesting ...

Duty of Care

If one duty could encapsulate the obligations of directors to their organization, it would be the duty of care, expressed as follows: every director shall act honestly and in good faith with a view to the best interests of the corporation, and exercise the care, diligence and skill that a reasonably prudent person would exercise in comparable circumstances.

Both subjective and objective standards comprise the duty of care. The objective standard requires a director to look to the mythical "reasonably prudent person" for guidance, while the subjective standard requires an assessment of the director's own personal level of skill and experience.

Duty of Skill and Prudence

Once elected to the Board, a director should actively bring his or her skills to the organization. The exercise of the duty of skill and prudence depends largely on the experience of, and responsibilities entrusted to, the director. The duty of skill and prudence requires that the director act with practicality and caution, while anticipating the potential consequences of any actions taken by the organization.

--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca

Back to Top
Larry Willick

CBI Canadian Building Inspections, Ltd.
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 149
User: lwillick
Posted: Nov 12, 2005 5:46 PM       Post Subject:
Raymond:

Sounds like legal talk.

larry
Back to Top
Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 447
User: rwand1
Posted: Nov 13, 2005 8:03 AM       Post Subject:
It may be legal talk but it is a requirement and well established in law. If anyone can't deliver the goods and has an ignorant attitude they should not be on the Board of Directors. Persons serving at the pleasure of the membership have a duty to act properly and within the confines. We don't need anymore stupidity then that which is currently displayed. Being ignorant and stupid are easy, and apparently anyone can do it.

Cheers,

--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca

Back to Top
Raymond Wand

Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 447
User: rwand1
Posted: Nov 13, 2005 8:07 AM       Post Subject:
They are compensated for their expenses incurred while in their capacity. Any director stupid enough to state he is a volunteer and/or not paid is thick!
They can't even come up with good excuses. Duh!

--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca

Back to Top
John Bowman
Executive Director
NACHI Member: Staff
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 2502
Posted: Nov 13, 2005 8:35 AM       Post Subject:
- - - -
Back to Top
Go to page: Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next