National Electrical Code Facts

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



1. Overcurrent devices (fuses or circuit breakers) cannot be located where they will be exposed to physical damage.


Note: Physical damage is not defined, use common sense.

Also, unless identified for use in the operating environment, no conductors or equipment can be located in damp or wet locations; where exposed to gases, fumes, vapors, liquids, or other agents that have a deteriorating effect on the conductors or equipment; or where exposed to excessive temperatures.

FPN No. 1: See 300.6 for protection against corrosion.

FPN No. 2: Some cleaning and lubricating compounds can cause severe 3. deterioration of many plastic materials used for insulating and structural applications in equipment.

2. Equipment identified only as "dry locations,'' "Type 1,'' or" indoor use only'' must be protected against permanent damage from the weather during building construction.

3. Overcurrent devices cannot be located in the vicinity of easily ignitible material, such as in clothes closets. Other examples of locations where combustible materials may be stored are linen closets, and paper storage closets.

4. In dwelling units and guest rooms or guest suites of hotels and motels, overcurrent devices, other than supplementary overcurrent protection, cannot be located in bathrooms.

Question: What does supplementary overcurrent protection cover?


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: jbushart
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Quote:
What's Wrong With This Picture?

Photo Violations, courtesy of Joe Tedesco and www.JoeTedesco.org


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Sorry Joe, we are home inspectors not electricians

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Author Topic: Sorry Joe, we are home inspectors not electricians


Joe Tedesco


Member posted 09-23-2005 07:43 AM


I am speechless!
Recent question here: Found this in a 22 year old home. My question is doesn't the wiring passing through the panel require a protective bushing?





quote:


Sorry Joe we are home inspectors not electricians!
What is the advantage of us spending all our time on learning the electrical code?

I am a retired sparky and can not see a big advantage for home inspectors requiring some of your questions.

I feel we need to recognize that there is a hot spot in the panel.

There are incorrect receptacles.

There are loose boxes.

We also have to see that the AC split is incorrect.

We must recognize concerns with the hot water system .

We are generalists not specialists.

We need to know a very large amount of the working of a home, but do not need to know what kind of pressures are in side a AC unit.

It is not needed for us to know all the codes of all the trades.



My opinion others might agree or disagree.


Roy Cooke Sr.





IP: Logged



Ryan_J


Moderator posted 09-23-2005 09:42 AM


One of the many reasons that, generally speaking, I think home inspectors are a joke.
IP: Logged



Joe Tedesco


Member posted 09-23-2005 10:57 AM


Ryan:
I can't stop laughing too what a crying joke, see the poll so far, and some of the comments as well.
http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=15786

IP: Logged



RSmike


Member posted 09-23-2005 01:06 PM


Home inspecting is to the trades as marketing is to engineering.
I'm an electrical engineer and I wish I went into marketing so I could have it so easy and no accountablity. Home inspectors lack the specific knowledge to comment on subtle problems. Anyone can spot flames or leaky pipes. I recall paying a fellow the required $200 fee to tell me a bunch of things I already knew about the house I was buying. I giggled when he pulled the cover off the main panel. I'm not sure he knew what he was looking for. In the end I got a boiler plate document discussion of GFCI use per NEC, lead paint, and appropriate spacing for the stiles on a deck railing.

However, there are some folks that lack common sense and that's where marketing and home inspectors seem to make their money. There are people out there that haven't mastered "lefty loosey...righty tighty." That should be the test of whether you need to have a professional home inspection.

I have often thought about going into the home inspection or consulting field. I'm seriously jealous of these folks. I enojoy the challenge of finding problems. And I think most technical people have the necessary background to quickly drop into this field.

If the bank was serious they'd require an electrical, mechanical, and civil engineer to inspect all houses. It's the lawyers and finance companies that made the home inspector what they are today. I doubt anyone would call a home inspector if it wasn't part of the financial process.

I guess in the end it's like going to the doctor for a physical.... You wouldn't go to ten different guys for each special body part. You go to the family doctor...the home inspector. If he sees a problem then you call in the specialist....but no one ever does so you have missing cable clamps in panels....

It's a 'no win' argument.

RSlater,
RSmike


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Redsy


Member posted 09-23-2005 07:34 PM


One of the reasons I stopped doing real-estate work was that an inspector stated that "amateur wiring was evident throughout" the attic of a home on the market.
They missed the fact that there was 56 circuits in a 40 circuit panel.
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renosteinke


Moderator posted 09-23-2005 08:00 PM


I'm tempted to say inspections are like zoning....they work fine where they're not needed, and fail where they are!
"Home inspector" seem to be a fine opportunity to give yourself a fancy title, work a "business" from home (and without the worry of licensing, bonding, training, regulation, or any burdens whatsoever), and become an instant expert on everything. You don't even have to put up with the pesky restraints government inspectors face!

That said.....the whole 'inspection' biz got started as more and more folks began earning their livelihoods in fields that protected them from learning anything practical about houses. And, we started moving about more often, rather than living in the same place for decades.
Many folks, after the sale, began to wonder if their ignorance had been taken advantage of. I know, from personal experience, that seemingly respectable sellers can turn out to be little sharks- deliberately concealing, or even mis-representing, the true state of the building.

So enter the "home inspector." These folks, even with the best intentions, are still no substitute for the buyer to learn enough, himself, to make an informed decision.

Consider the "home inspector" to be someone who should know enough to see when a specialist should be called for an opinion. Consider that the inspector depends upon repeat business from his regular customers....so he's not likely to ever say "run from this dump!"- no matter how bad it is.

The motto of the HI field should be "Veni, Vedi, Visa;" ......that is, "I came, I saw, I cashed the check!"

IP: Logged



Redsy


Member posted 09-24-2005 08:45 AM


At first, the idea of Home Inspections seemed to be an opportunity for increased business from realtors. The problem with the statement "amateur wiring was evident throughout the attic" was that this attic wiring looked similar to many attics that are 30 years old, and better than many.
How liable is the seller for "amateur" work that isn't really unsafe, but might not meet code? Then when you see the "overstuffed" (good for deli sandwiches, bad for electrical enclosures) service panel, the homeowner doesn't understand why the Home Inspector didn't say anything.
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BElder


Member posted 09-28-2005 04:44 PM


You know I tried to post on the NACHI site once about these home inspectors requiring GFCI recepticles by all water sources to tell them there is no such code and they told me to take a hike
needless to say I have never been back to tell them what the true codes are
What a scam to the home buyers!!! the most of these inspectors are hired by the realators and if you find to many things wrong with the house or building they will never call you back
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Ryan_J


Moderator posted 09-28-2005 05:13 PM


I too got fed up with home inspectors and their website. I have very, very little respect for most of them.
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Patman


New Member posted 09-28-2005 08:12 PM


As a state licensed home inspector I have to respond your general bashing of my profession. If it makes you better to bash a new profession, you must feel threatened by us. Is the quality of your work inferior to the point of fear that "we" will find something and question you on it? Do you believe we make "easy money? with no "license, insurance and authority"? If you believe that a home inspector just rolls in money from questioning someone's work then you don't know anything of my profession. Apparently you don't know much about what home inspector does or what I had to do to become one. Nothing is that easy. I had to get licensed after lengthy training, which is REQUIRED by my state and then get tested for hours just to stay current. I never stop learning about more then one area and can't since my state DEMANDS that and requires testing and documentation. My reports take HOURS for a little $$$ only to get sued since some hidden problem was not "seen" because some "contractor" was out to cut costs. So I get reamed for someone else's mistakes... Surely you would like that right? Can you say scapegoat?
You don't know how I work and what I do! You don?t know what my state mandated responsibilities are? You don't know what I did before I entered this profession so before you slam me look at your own profession and ask yourself this question: If I do my work well and to the letter what do I have to fear from a home inspection? Nothing!

Worry about lawyers suing you! Not for my ?opinion on something". I look at everything possible and anything that is going to cost the homebuyer $$$. I don?t work for a real estate broker. I work for a homebuyer pointing out safety concerns and condition issues. If "contractors" cut corners and the home inspector questions it WITH OUT CODE enforcement powers we have nothing to gain. I direct that to licensed qualified contractors to evaluate the condition not to act like I have authority and give you guy?s problems!

Contractors are on the top of the list for lawsuits next to, used car dealers. Do you like to be grouped with them?


I can't tell people whether to buy the house or NOT. I can tell them from my experience / training that there is a problem and suggest they have a LICENSED QUALIFIED CONTRACTOR evaluate it and get the results in writing for their sake! (It maybe electrical contractors like YOU) that I recommend to look at installations since I am NOT allowed by law to tell them how to FIX it! DIY'ers are everywhere including you guys. Building permits ....What??.... How many times have you fixed something on your own homes without a permit?

So cut me some slack and don?t think that every inspector is an idiot. Sure some inspectors are not qualified just like some contractors I meet. Every state is different with regards to requirements and licensing. Some states don?t even require licenses at all. Mine does and makes me work for it.


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house examiner


New Member posted 09-28-2005 08:47 PM


As a former electrician and Failure Analysis Engineer
with 38 years restoring 19th century homes
I am disappointed in the comments about home inspectors. I now work as an HI and my state required me to get training in all the home related technologies and pass a five hour exam just to be licensed. My 30 + years as a inspector for manufacturing facilities counted for ZIP toward a residential inspection license.
If anyone pays a few hundred dollars for a checklist report - you get what you pay for.
A certified inspector must continue training and pass an annual exam to keep the license and remain certified.

We are experts in detecting wear and tear, degrading and structural deficiencies, We are trained to recognize poor workmanship, health hazards and risk to occupants. We prepare narrative reports explaining what we find and if deficient why. We refer the client to the experts in the related field for repair or restoration.

Yes we find contractors hiding behind the phrase "It meets code" Since code is the minimum allowed just meeting it is an easy out. When someone pays hundreds of thousand dollars for a home is the "minimum" what they expect? Code does not define quality, practicality or common sense. Good workmanship and pride - craftsmanship is without fault. Do it right and we love you.

Do it on the cheap. or carelessly, or take shortcuts and we will find what you did and report on it.

Take pride in your trade and hire a real home inspector who takes pride in his trade.

By the way - electrical contractors do not require licenses in my state.


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Joe Tedesco is copying comments from this message board to his other boards and using them to put down home inspectors.

Way to go, former vendor of NACHI. ![icon_twisted.gif](upload://xjO326gspdTNE5QS3UTl0a0Rtvy.gif)


--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org

Originally Posted By: Steve Wiggins
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Below is my letter to the vice chair of the Texas Real Estate Commission (back in April of this year) regarding heating & air conditioning inspections. I believe City Inspectors and Home Inspectors can provide a real benefit to the consumer if some changes are made. Currently a home owner puts complete trust in the inspector as if he were the expert. A passing report on their hvac system can give them a false sense of security. A problem reported does not give the professional the freedom to find and correct other problems that the inspector didn’t find. Home sellers only want corrected what was in the inspectors report. See a hvac contractor is hired by the seller and not by the interested party. City officials DO NOT CHECK for performance. Home inspectors only check for performance to a minor and inaccurate degree. Merely checking a temperature split is NOT checking for performance (see further discussion below).


Right now I am having a problem with home inspectors writing in their reports to have the system "serviced" by a professional. They then go on to point out certain specifics in the report. If the inspectors would say to have the system "evaluated" instead of serviced then we would have the freedom to point other issues. In short it would be sending a message to the home seller/buyer that the inspector is NOT a professional hvac inspector & doesn't really have any business reporting about the hvac system but in many states they are required to do so.













Mrs. Louise Hull,

Thank you for being available and taking the time to listen to my concerns regarding Home Inspectors as they relate to HVAC inspections.

In my 14 years experience of working in the air conditioning business I have found great reward in making people comfortable. The latter part of my career has been devoted to the PR end of dealing with the customer because dealing with people is an important part of that comfort. I am proud to be the respected licensed professional that the general public can rely on to produce the right answer to their particular problem. Lately I feel like this pride has been stripped away from me by Home Inspectors that are regulated by TREC. In both the home seller and the home buyer's eyes it seems as if the inspector is the ultimate authority and I am merely the grunt worker just doing what he is told. I can tell the home seller that I disagree with the report but it doesn't matter to them. Correcting the issues listed in the report is what they need done to sell the house. My input to them is meaningless and often times offensive when I report problems above and beyond what the inspector found. As a licensed professional it is my duty to check the air conditioning system for proper performance and of course safety (safety for the occupants, safety for the building contents and safety for the equipment). The Home Inspector is NOT required to do any performance testing such as refrigerant charge, air flow, heat transfer, Carbon Monoxide Combustion Analysis etc.. It is for these reasons the Home Inspectors report can give the home buyer a false sense of security.

For example, one of the main things the Home Inspectors check is the difference in temperature of the supply and return air. Zero temperature difference means the equipment is not doing anything at all. But the big misconception here is a great temperature difference doesn't necessarily mean everything is working ok. I always hear the inspectors have reported to the customer that they are looking for a 17?F - 20?F difference. Some say 15-20 etc... But where are they getting these numbers? Moving heat is all about the temperature PLUS THE VOLUME of air moved. Home Inspectors are only measuring temperature! I can make an air conditioning system blow colder by lowering the fan speed. I can make a heating system warmer by lowering the fan speed. An automobile is a perfect example of this. At our finger tips we can select the fan speed we desire. Use a thermometer to test the air temp at low fan speed and then at high fan speed. You will see quite a difference. There is no exact right or wrong speed and there is no right or wrong temperature. A lower fan speed will help in allowing the air & indoor coil to be colder so it "sweats" more thus removing more water from the air. This lowering of humidity makes it feel more comfortable in the space. In cooling mode a higher fan speed increases the air temperature but can also increase system efficiency (to a point). We might have a contractor in El Paso that wants a higher fan speed and one in Houtson that needs a lower one to help control humidity.

According to a well known hvac equipment testing engineer,
"If it is particularly humid, there will be more heat absorbed by the changing of the moisture vapor to a liquid. The heat absorbtion involved in doing this is latent heat and therefore will not be measurable in the overall temperature drop of the air across the coil.

Lets say that 12,000 Btu's of heat are being absorbed by the coil at a consistant rate. Lets also assume that at that rate with no humidity there is a 25? temperature drop created.

Now, lets add enough humidity that 2,000 Btu's of heat energy are absorbed by the water vapor changing it into liquid condensate. That 2,000 Btu's of heat energy is not going to be able to be measured in the temperature drop across the coil because its heat energy is draining out of the system via the condensate drain rather then being carried in the air stream across the coil. This will lower the temperature differential across the coil even though the same amount of heat is being absorbed."


We as licensed professionals need this freedom of a range of temperature differences without the fear of a Home Inspector alarming the buyer about an issue that may not be a problem at all.

Example #1: I had an instructor call me from Baylor University where I have many customers. She told me she got my name as a referral from one of her co-workers. These are the most excellent networks to build and I have been working on doing just that for a long time so naturally I was excited to help her out. She wanted a price to have her coils cleaned and her system serviced. I arrived and read the Home Inspectors report and it stated just that. I asked her if she knew if the inspector meant the indoor coils or the outdoor coils, she wasn't sure. She wanted a total system service anyway so I began checking her system. Yep I found dirty coils alright, indoor and outdoor. I also found the following: 1)dirty blower wheel, 2)refrigerant leak @ indoor coil (non-repairable), 3) Bad run capacitor serving the compressor, 4) system low on refrigerant charge.

To properly clean this indoor coil it needed to be removed. A leaking coil cannot be properly re-installed becaused it can't be pressure tested and evacuated without introducing moisture in the system. So my three options at this point were: 1)Attempt to clean the coil in place, this would only create a muddy mess and clog up the drain line 2)remove the coil, wash it with coil cleaner and reinstall it without evacuation, this could ruin the compressor 3) replace the indoor coil with a new one, this would be the best option but the most expensive.

I gave her my findings & recommendations and she hit the ceiling mad. All she wanted was a price she said and my price was way more than she thought she should be paying for a cleaning & service. She refused to pay me for my service and escorted me out of her home. Granted I only lost a service call fee but I lost much more than that by making a customer angry especially given the place she worked. During her service I was doing my 110% best trying not to leave any stone unturned to protect her and her realtor from the buyer coming back with a lawsuit/report from their hvac expert. My training, years of experience, and hard work in building a referral network were instantly crushed by this Home Inspectors report. It wasn't his fault because he was merely reporting what was required of him. It was the systems fault for putting us all in a bad position.

Example #2: I recently received a call from a friend of the family who was selling his home. He wanted me to correct a flexible duct per Home Inspectors report. This duct was tapped off of the master bedroom and fed an enclosed garage. The air flow was never very good according to the home seller. The inspector wrote on the report, "wrap flexible duct with plastic" due to failing vapor barrier. Best industry practices are: 1) disentegrated flex duct needs to be replaced, not repaired. 2) Fixing the duct won't solve the comfort issues in the enclosed garage. 3) plastic wrap will disentegrate with heat & sunlight worse than the old duct. 4) Inspector did more than just state it was "in need of repair". 5) a large portion of the duct was inaccessable (very tight attic space).

I offered a solution of capping off the poorly installed duct and adding a window unit to the enclosed garage but it wasn't what the seller wanted to hear. He had already signed a contract stating he would have the duct repaired. He was stuck and so was I.
I left the job with my friend insisting on finding someone that would do what the report said needed to be done. As a professional I shouldn't have to be put in this position because of something written on an inspectors report....an inspector with LESS CREDENTIALS than me. My licensing exam has a "design component" his does not - that is the difference!

Example #3: New customer called for service of two systems on their large home. When I arrived I saw the realtors sign in the yard and knew why I was called. The Home Inspector's report said the systems needed to be "serviced". I began checking one heat pump system and found dirty indoor coils, dirty blower wheel, two of four heating elements not functioning, thermostat miswired so the Em.Heat function didn't work, refrigerant leak and large oily stain @ indoor coil and the worst of all the outdoor unit was so grown up with thorny hedges that I couldn't get to it for service. Cutting the hedges was not allowed because that would make it "look like hell" according to the husband. I informed him I wouldn't be putting myself at electrical shock danger by trying to sqeeze in between the 6" clearance and work in that tight of a space. He was infuriated by my findings, price to repair, and refusal to check his outdoor unit until the hedges were cut. You see he couldn't sell the house until my invoice stated that I serviced the system. He also didn't like the fact that I found many more serious problems than the inspector found. I only charged him $48 for the evaluation of the one system and he didn't want me to check the other one. He told me, "so I guess I have just wasted $48" then escorted me out the door.

I am not in business to be escorted out by mad customers. I am put in a terrible no win position by the way these TREC regulated hvac inspections are done. There must be a better solution. The TREC inspector could have helped the situation by informing the homeowner that an "evaluation" by a licensed professional may uncover other more expensive problems. I need that communicated by the real estate broker. Please.



My recommended solution: Let the inspector check the obvious things that are already listed in the rules but REQUIRE this statement regarding hvac on his inspection report, "I recommend having your hvac system evaluated by a licensed professional. Your professional will be testing and checking things above and beyond the scope of my report at which time futher deficiences may be found".

It is very important that this NOT be called a service. It needs to be called an evaluation. No system can be serviced without being evaluated first. The hvac system can be an extremely expensive part of the home. It is NOT an appliance that you can run down to Sears and pick up a new one for a few hundred bucks. It is a whole home system that must be custom designed and field installed. Each system is different with very dynamic & unique properties. Each part of the system relies on the other parts to work together as a whole. When one part is damaged so are the others effected. Air flow, refrigerant flow/heat transfer moisture control & electricity are all complex in themselves and when they are all put together in one operating comfort system it really does take a true professional to evaluate.

Thanks again for your time in addressing this matter. Feel free to call me anytime if I can further clarify my points or help with other concerns you may have.


Sincerely,

Steve Wiggins
Quality Air Care
124 Thiele Rd.
Lorena, TX


Originally Posted By: Steve Wiggins
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



James Bushart - I don’t think Joe is trying to personally “put down” the inspectors but he IS putting down the administration of how the rules are written as well he should. If you and other inspectors are offended then so be it but if hurting your feelings is what it takes to correct a problem then that is what it takes. Help us come to a reasonable compromise on this and I think everyone will be better off. I don’t see why an inspector would even want to work under an inferior rule system???


Originally Posted By: aatkinson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Quote:

One of the many reasons that, generally speaking, I think home inspectors are a joke. IP: Logged

Joe Tedesco Member posted 09-23-2005 10:57 AM



Mr. Wiggins, read this quote again. If you you think that this is not a put down to the men and women in the HI industry then what is? ![icon_evil.gif](upload://1gvq2wV2azLs27xp71nuhZOKiSI.gif)


--
--
Allen Atkinson
President
NACHI GTA Chapter

ACISS Home Inspections Of Peel
Brampton, Ontario
(416) 550-4345
allen_atkinson@sympatico.ca

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



aatkinson wrote:
Quote:

One of the many reasons that, generally speaking, I think home inspectors are a joke. IP: Logged

Joe Tedesco Member posted 09-23-2005 10:57 AM



Mr. Wiggins, read this quote again. If you you think that this is not a put down to the men and women in the HI industry then what is? ![icon_evil.gif](upload://1gvq2wV2azLs27xp71nuhZOKiSI.gif)


aatkinson: Read the post again, I never said this?


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: jbushart
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Joe-


Do you not moderate that forum?


--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org

Originally Posted By: kwilliams
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Oh Joe, you also didn’t say this , right ?


Joe Tedesco
Member posted 09-23-2005 10:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Tedesco Click Here to Email Joe Tedesco Edit/Delete Message Ryan:

I can't stop laughing too what a crying joke, see the poll so far, and some of the comments as well.
http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=15786


--
Member - MAB

http://www.nachi.org/convention2006.htm

Originally Posted By: aatkinson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the many reasons that, generally speaking, I think home inspectors are a joke.
IP: Logged

Joe Tedesco
Member posted 09-23-2005 10:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok Joe, if you didn't write this, then Who?


--
--
Allen Atkinson
President
NACHI GTA Chapter

ACISS Home Inspections Of Peel
Brampton, Ontario
(416) 550-4345
allen_atkinson@sympatico.ca

Originally Posted By: jbushart
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Face it, Joe.


You're caught. The jig is up. Your cover is blown.

Time to move on to the next town, Professor Hill.


--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org

Originally Posted By: tallen
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



aatkinson wrote:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the many reasons that, generally speaking, I think home inspectors are a joke.
IP: Logged

Joe Tedesco
Member posted 09-23-2005 10:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok Joe, if you didn't write this, then Who?


Ryan_J
Moderator posted 09-23-2005 09:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan_J Click Here to Email Ryan_J Edit/Delete Message One of the many reasons that, generally speaking, I think home inspectors are a joke.


--
I have put the past behind me,
where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.

www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: pabernathy
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Ok…I am not defending anyone but I will defend the HI guys to a point.


As many know I am a Master Electrician ( TESTED ) and a NEC Instructor and all that jazz....well enough about me....

Before people belittle one profession lets open the doors to our own profession. I see electricians every day that get their license from either being grandfathered or from some builder who did a few plugs over the years and then call themselves a electrician and the states end up giving them a license...and in many cases a masters license for gosh sakes...

Now I am against any Electrician who has not 1.) Tested on the state level and passed an written proctored exam. 2.) I am against any electrician who has a masters licence and did not take both the journeymans and masters exams and passed.....under a proctors supervision.

Way to many electricians running around with a GIFTED license...now i have read some of these posts now on the other forum and in this forum on the belittling of HI's....guys it is NOT the job of the HI to do the job of the electrician....only observe the obvious....

And to be honest with you....we get plenty of service calls from other HI's who know we have no conflict of interest with them and we do their service work....I have not had a issue with any of them and in fact I had one who suggested something and they were wrong and all I did was call them and 3 way called with the owner......and the inspector actually appologized and to this day we have become friends....WHY.....he was OPEN to being wrong......we all make mistakes as we are human.


--
Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
Moderator @ Doityourself.com
Visit our website- www.electrical-ess.com

Originally Posted By: pabernathy
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Hey guys…those that are intersted in reviewing the updates to the 2005 NEC here is a link to a location that will assist you.


http://www.electrician.com/2005nec1/2005_nec_files/frame2.htm

This is a GREAT article by Mike Holt ( it was posted in another open forum )

CODE CHANGES 2002

By Mike Holt

Feb 1, 2002 12:00 PM


Code coverage continues this month with a look at some of the changes to Chapters 3 and 4 of the 2002 NEC. Some of these changes will affect the products that you sell.


(Note: As you make your way through each change, keep in mind that excerpts are paraphrased from the National Electrical Code with new material or changes in italics. An explanation for the revision also follows each discussion.)

Art. 300 ? Wiring Methods


300.1 Scope


(C) Metric Designators and Trade Sizes. Metric designators and trade sizes for conduit, tubing, and associated fittings and accessories are designated in Table 300.1(C).

Table 300.1(C) Metric Designator and Trade Sizes Intent: The preceding metric designators were necessary because the NEC uses the metric system as the primary unit of measurement, as now required in 90.9. The metric units appear first throughout the NEC, and the inch-pound units follow in parentheses.

300.4 Protection Against Physical Damage


(B) Through Metal Framing Members.


(1) Nonmetallic-Sheath Cable (NM). Where NM cables pass through factory or field opening in metal members, the NM cable must be protected by listed bushings or listed grommets that cover metal edges. The protection fitting must be securely fastened in the opening prior to installation of the cable.

Intent: The NFPA added the term ?listed? to coordinate this section with 334.17, which now requires listed bushings or listed grommets to cover metal edges. The change was necessary because unlisted grommets and bushings may fall out.

300.7 Raceways Exposed to Different Temperatures


The new NEC reworded the requirement for sealing against the flow of warm air to a colder section.

(A) Sealing. Where portions of a cable, raceway, or sleeve are known to be subjected to different temperatures and where condensation is known to be a problem (such as in cold storage areas of buildings or where the wiring passes from the interior to the exterior of a building), the raceway or sleeve must be filled with material approved by the AHJ to prevent the circulation of warm air to a colder section or sleeve. An explosionproof seal is not required to prevent the circulation of warm air to a colder section or sleeve.

Intent: The new wording better addresses the problem of heating and cooling energy loss (federal energy requirement) as well as condensation problems within raceways and enclosures when proper sealing is not provided. The last sentence clarifies you must use an approved material (not necessarily an explosionproof seal).

Art. 310 ? Conductors for General Wiring


310.8 Locations


(D) Locations Exposed to Direct Sunlight. Insulated conductors and cables used where exposed to direct rays of the sun must be listed for sunlight resistance or listed and marked ?sunlight resistant.?

Intent: The revised text clarifies the listing and/or marking requirements for conductors and cables exposed to direct sunlight. According to the UL White Book, conductors within SE cables must be suitable for direct rays of the sun. Due to rules in place by UL, you cannot market these conductors as ?sunlight resistant.? However, single insulated conductors like THHN must be listed for sunlight resistance, and the ?sunlight resistant? marking is optional. Keep in mind that THHN 2 AWG and larger (in the color black) is typically listed for sunlight resistance, and the conductor will be marked ?sunlight resistant.?

Art. 320 (333) ? Armored Cable


320.30 Securing and Supporting


(B) Unsupported. AC cable can be unsupported where the cable is:


Fished between concealed access points in finished buildings or structures and support is impracticable.

Not more than 2 feet in length at terminals where flexibility is necessary.

Not more than 6 feet from the last point of support within an accessible ceiling for the connection of luminaires.


Intent: The revised text permits you to run AC cable from lighting fixture to lighting fixture as long as the unsupported length of AC cable is not more than 6 feet.

Art. 330 (334) ? Metal-Clad Cable


330.30 Securing and Supporting


(B) Unsupported. MC cable can be unsupported where the cable is:


Fished between concealed access points in finished buildings or structures and support is impracticable.

Not more than 2 feet in length at terminals where flexibility is necessary.

Not more than 6 feet from the last point of support within an accessible ceiling for the connection of luminaires.


Intent: This new rule allows you to run MC cable from lighting fixture to lighting fixture as long as the unsupported length of MC cable is not more than 6 feet.

Art. 342 (345) ? Intermediate Metal Conduit


342.30 Securing and Supporting


(B) Supports
(3) Exposed vertical risers for industrial machinery or fixed equipment can be supported at intervals not exceeding 20 feet, if the conduit is held up with threaded couplings, firmly supported at the top and bottom of the riser, and no other support means is available.

Intent: The additional words are intended to permit an expanded use of vertical risers to other equipment that is fixed in place. In addition, the change clarifies you can use vertical risers of IMC for fixed equipment in any occupancies, not just machinery in an industrial facility.

This change correlates with a change made with respect to Rigid Metal Conduit (RMC) in 344.30(B)(3).

Art. 362 (331) ? Electrical Nonmetallic Conduit (ENT)


362.10 Uses Permitted


(2) In buildings exceeding three floors, you must install ENT concealed in walls, floors, or ceilings that provides a thermal barrier having a 15-minute finish rating as identified in listings of fire-rated assemblies.

Exception: When a building is supplied with an approved fire sprinkler system, you can install ENT exposed or concealed in buildings of any height.

Intent: The new exception permits ENT exposed or concealed in a fire-sprinklered building without the restriction of requiring a 15-minute finish rated thermal barrier.

(5) You can install ENT above a suspended ceiling if the suspended ceiling provides a thermal barrier having a 15-minute finish rating as identified in listings of fire-rated assemblies.

Exception: When a building is supplied with an approved fire sprinkler system, ENT can be installed above a suspended ceiling that does not have a 15-minute finish rated thermal barrier material.

Intent: The new exception permits ENT exposed or concealed above a suspended ceiling in a fire-sprinklered building without the restriction of requiring a 15-minute finish rated thermal barrier. 300.22(C)(1) does not allow nonmetallic raceways above suspended ceilings when that space is used for environmental air.

Art. 392 (318) ? Cable Tray


392.3 Uses Permitted


You can use cable trays as a support system for services, feeders, branch circuits, communications circuits, control circuits, and signaling circuits. Cable tray installations are not to be limited to industrial establishments. Where exposed to direct rays of the sun, you must identify insulated conductors and jacketed cables as being sunlight resistant. The manufacturer must identify cable trays and their associated fittings for the intended use.

Intent: The additional wording clarifies you can use cable trays for the support of power, lighting, signaling, and communications circuits. Cable trays are manufactured in many forms, from a simple hanger or wire mesh to a substantial, rigid, steel support system. Cable trays are designed and manufactured to support a specific wiring method. To assure a safe support system, cable trays must be identified for their intended use.

392.6 Installation


(J) Raceways, Cables, and Boxes Supported from Cable Trays. In industrial facilities where conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons will service the installation and where the cable tray system is designed and installed to support the load, you can use such cable tray systems to support raceways, cables, boxes, and conduit bodies.

For raceways terminating at the tray, you must use a listed cable tray clamp or adapter to securely fasten the raceway to the cable tray system. The raceway must be supported in accordance with the requirements of the appropriate raceway Article.

You can attach raceways or cables running parallel to the cable tray system to the bottom or side of a cable tray system. The raceway must be fastened and supported in accordance with the requirements of the appropriate raceway Article.

For boxes and conduit bodies attached to the bottom or side of a cable tray system, fastening and supporting must be in accordance with the requirements of Art. 314, specifically 314.23.

Intent: The revised text clarifies you can attach any size box, as well as conduit bodies, to the bottom or side of a cable tray system. And where raceways or cables are run parallel to and attached to the bottom or side of a cable tray system, the fastening and supporting must be in accordance with the requirements of the appropriate raceway or cable Article.

Art. 400 ? Flexible Cords and Cables


400.4 Types


Voltage ratings were added to Table 400-4.

Intent: Voltage markings on flexible cords and cables are optional. You can now find the voltage rating in this table when it is not marked on the flexible cord or cable.

400.7 Uses Permitted


(A) Uses. Flexible cords and cables must be used only for:

(2) Wiring of luminaires

(6) Connection of utilization equipment to facilitate frequent interchange.

Intent: The Code replaced the word ?stationary? with ?utilization.? The revised text clarifies you can use flexible cords for any utilization equipment to facilitate frequent interchange ? whether or not the equipment is stationary.

400.8 Uses Not Permitted


Unless specifically permitted in 400.7, you cannot use flexible cords and cables for the following:

(5) Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings, or located above suspended or dropped ceilings.

Intent: The change clarifies flexible cords must be within sight (not concealed), because the cords might be subject to damage or fatigue that would not be readily detected.

Art. 404 (380) ? Switches


404.9 Provisions for General Use Snap Switches


(B) Grounding. Snap switches, including dimmer and similar control switches, must be effectively grounded and must provide a means to ground metal faceplates, whether or not you install a metal faceplate. Snap switches must be considered effectively grounded according to (1) or (2) below.

(1) The switch is mounted with metal screws to a metal box or to a nonmetallic box with integral means for grounding devices.

(2) An equipment grounding conductor or equipment bonding jumper is connected to an equipment grounding termination of the snap switch.

Intent: This change clarifies fan control and other similar control switches, such as timers and dimmers, must be effectively grounded.

404.14 Rating and Use of Snap Switches
(including dimmers)


(E) Dimmer. General use dimmer switches must only be used to control permanently installed incandescent luminaires unless otherwise listed for control of other loads, and installed accordingly.

Intent: This requirement is contained in the listing and installation instructions for dimmers. Inserting the text in the Code should help ensure that dimmers will be installed in accordance with the manufacturer/listing requirements. Dimmers are not listed to control a receptacle.

404.15 Switch Marking


(B) Off Indication. When in the off position, a switching device with a marked off position must completely disconnect all ungrounded (hot) conductors of the load it controls.

Intent: This rule requires switches with an off marking to disconnect all power. Where an electronic occupancy sensor is used, voltage will be present and a small current of 0.5 mA can flow ? even when the switch is in the off position. This small amount of current can startle a person, perhaps causing a fall from a ladder. To solve this problem, manufacturers of wiring devices will most likely remove the word off from the switch.

Art. 406 ? Receptacle, Cord Connectors, and Attachment Plugs (Caps)


NFPA added a new Article covering receptacles, cord connectors, and attachment plugs (caps).

Intent: This new Article contains the receptacle requirements formerly located in 210-7 and the receptacle, cord connector, and attachment plug requirements that were located in Part L of Art. 410 of the 1999 NEC. Consolidating the requirements for receptacles into one Article is part of the overall effort to make the Code more user-friendly. The following table is a short summary of where the rules were relocated from and moved to:

1999 NEC Scope 2002 NEC
406.1 Receptacles must be listed 406.2(A)
410-56(a) Receptacles 406.2(B)
410-56(a) - (c) Rating and Type 406.2(B) - (D)
210-7 Grounding 406.3(A) - (F)
410-56(f)(1) - (3) Receptacle Mounting 406.4(A) - (C)
410-56(e) Position of Receptacle Faces 406.4(D)
210-8(a)(7) Receptacle Face-Up On Counter 406.4(E)
410-3 Live Parts 406.4(F)
410-56(e) Cover Openings 406.5
410-56(d) Faceplates 406.5(A) - (C)
410-56(g) Attachment Plugs 406.6(A) - (C)
410-56(i) Noninterchangeability 406.7
410-57(a) - (f) Receptacles in Wet Locations 406.8(A) - (F)
410-58(a) - (e) Grounding 406.9(A) - (E)
250-146(a) - (d) Grounding 406.10(A)- (D)


406.8 Receptacles in Damp or Wet Locations


(A) Damp Locations. A receptacle installed outdoors in a location protected from the weather or in other damp locations must have an enclosure for the receptacle that is weatherproof when the receptacle is covered (attachment plug cap not inserted and receptacle covers closed).

An installation suitable for wet locations is also considered suitable for damp locations. A receptacle that is located outdoors is considered to be in a ?location protected from the weather? if it is located under roofed open porches, canopies, marquees, and the like, and it is not subjected to beating rain or water runoff.

(B) Wet Locations


(1) 15A and 20A Outdoor Receptacles. 15A and 20A, 125V and 250V receptacles installed outdoors in a wet location must have an enclosure that is weatherproof when you insert the attachment plug.

(2) Other Receptacles. All other receptacles installed in a wet location must comply with (a) or (b):

(a) A receptacle installed in a wet location must have an enclosure that is weatherproof with the attachment plug cap inserted, if the equipment plugged into it is not attended while in use.

(b) A receptacle installed in a wet location must have an enclosure that is weatherproof when the attachment plug is removed, if the equipment plugged into it is attended while in use.

Intent: The revised text in (B)(1) is intended to ensure that all 15A and 20A, 125V and 250V receptacles installed outdoors in a wet location be within an enclosure and cover that is weatherproof at all times, even when you insert an attachment plug.

Art. 408 (384) ? Switchboards and Panelboards


408.4 Circuit Directory


The purpose of all circuits must be legibly identified on a circuit directory on the face or inside of the panel door, and at each switch on a switchboard.

Intent: The new text clarifies all circuits must be properly identified. This includes each switch on a switchboard. See 110.22 for the revised requirements for the identification of disconnecting means.

408.21 Grounded Conductor Terminations


Each grounded (neutral) conductor must terminate within the panelboard in an individual terminal that is not also used for another conductor.

Intent: This new section should ensure the grounded (neutral) conductor would terminate within the panelboard in an individual terminal. This has been a UL requirement (UL Std. 67 ? Panelboard Standard) for some time, but the NEC wanted to bring this information to the installer. Technically, this is covered by 110.3(B), which requires all equipment to be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions and markings, but nobody knew it existed.

UL Std. 67 ? Panelboard Standard permits up to three 10 AWG equipment grounding conductors to terminate in a single terminal, if the terminal is marked for this purpose.

The intent of this requirement is to ensure the grounded (neutral) conductor of a multiwire branch circuit is not momentarily disconnected, which could result in the destruction of electrical equipment and fires from overvoltage.

If two grounded (neutral) conductors are in the same terminal and someone removes one of the neutrals, the other neutral may be unintentionally removed as well. If that happens to the grounded (neutral) conductor of a multiwire circuit, it could result in excessive line-to-neutral voltage for one of the circuits. For example, if it was a 120V/240V multiwire circuit, with one circuit having a 24-ohm load and the other circuit having an 11.3-ohm load, a loose neutral could result in as much as 163V across a 120V load.

Art. 410 ? Luminaires, Lampholders, and Lamps


The title of Art. 410 was changed from ?Lighting Fixtures, Lampholders, Lamps, and Receptacles? to ?Luminaires, Lampholders, and Lamps.? The title change was necessary because the term ?luminaire? has replaced ?fixture,? ?lighting fixture,? and ?lighting fixtures? throughout the NEC, and all of the receptacle requirements contained in Part L of Art. 410 in the 1999 NEC were relocated to a new Art. 406.

Intent: The change makes the Code suitable for international use and makes it easier to apply the requirements for receptacles.

Art. 430 ? Motors


IX. Disconnecting Means
430.102 Disconnect Means Location


(B) Motor Disconnect. A disconnecting means must be located in sight of the motor location and the driven machinery location. The controller disconnecting means, in accordance with 430.102(A), can serve as the disconnecting means for the motor, if the controller disconnect is located in sight of the motor location and the driven machinery location.

Exception: The motor disconnecting means is not required to be in sight of the motor and the driven machinery location under either condition (a) or (b) below, provided the controller disconnecting means required in accordance with 430.102(A) is capable of being individually locked in the open position. The provision for locking or adding a lock to the disconnecting means must be permanently installed on or at the switch or circuit breaker used as the controller disconnecting means.

(a) Where such a location of the disconnecting means is impracticable or introduces additional or increased hazards to persons or property.

(b) In industrial installations, with written safety procedures, where conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure only qualified persons will service the equipment.

FPN No. 1: Some examples of increased or additional hazards include, but are not limited to, motors rated in excess of 100 hp, multi-motor equipment, submersible motors, motors associated with variable frequency drives, and motors located in hazardous (classified) locations.

FPN No. 2: For information on lockout/tagout procedures, see Standard for Electrical Safety Requirements for Employee Workplaces, NFPA 70E-2000.

Intent: The revised subsection and exception are intended to improve worker safety by requiring the motor disconnecting means to be within sight of a motor and its driven machinery location as long as it does not add or increase hazards. There is much less chance that the worker will attempt to work when the equipment is ?hot.? However, (b) of the exception recognizes that industrial establishments have a greater degree of control over the workplace, and those facilities that have an effective lockout/tagout program could use the exception. The exception also clarifies the provision for locking the disconnecting means for the controller must be permanently installed on or at the switch or circuit breaker used as the controller disconnecting means so an installer/maintainer can apply it and work safely.

Art. 440 ? Air-Conditioning and Refrigerating Equipment


440.14 Location


Disconnecting means must be located within sight of and readily accessible from the air-conditioning or refrigerating equipment. You can install the disconnecting means on or within the air-conditioning or refrigerating equipment. The disconnecting means cannot be located on panels that are designed to allow access to the air-conditioning or refrigeration equipment.

Intent: Problems have been encountered in the field where someone installed the disconnecting means on the access panels of A/C and refrigeration equipment. This rule should take care of that potential problem.

Art. 445 ? Generators


This Article was reorganized to provide a common format and parallel numbering of the Articles so it will be easier to use.

445.13 Ampacity of Conductors


The ampacity of the conductors from the generator terminals to the first distribution device(s) containing overcurrent protection cannot be less than 115 percent of the nameplate current rating of the generator.

Intent: The change clarifies conductors originating at the generator can terminate in equipment that has multiple overcurrent devices such as a distribution switchboard or panelboard, with or without a main overcurrent device.

When sizing conductors, you need to comply with all NEC requirements. 215.2(A)(1) requires all feeders to be sized no less than 125 percent of the continuous load. So if the generator supplies a continuous load, the conductors must be sized no smaller than 125 percent of the continuous load, but no less than 115 percent of the generator nameplate.


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Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
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