CMI Cancelled

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CMI Cancelled

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Bill Merrell

Merrell Institute-NYS Instructor
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 276
User: bmerrell
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 3:21 PM       Post Subject:
Shame on you

Your messages serve only to harm those who volunteer their time

No NACHI Staff, who then is Deanna, is she a representative of Nick's or is Deanna a figment of NACHI's imagination. I think Deanna worked hard with the committee, and your comments were very unfortunate.

Nick never told me to collect 1 dime. Sorry to disappoint you. I never went forward with any CMI course, exam or program.

The CMI would be issued by Nick.

Nick appointed the CMI Committee persons. Maybe you should have been appointed as well.

Based upon the senseless abuse of your statements as the executive director of NACHI, I officially notified NACHI Staff, in colorado that I would not be involved in the CMI Program. I felt that persons, like yourself, without any facts, other than speculation have done a good job to stop the CMI program in it's tracks. Congrats- You did it. Now the membership will not have the opportunity of a Designation, nor the potential of bank contracts which several National banks require designations to become a vendor for.

This may open another box. I will next be accused of starting this so in my part-time I can steal inspections from other NACHI members. Also not true. I have no desire to take work from NACHI members. I have only volunteered my time to help NACHI members. Many have thanked me. You even asked me my advise and for an application to be mailed to you.

Why now, are you attempting to react as you are.

You are the Executive Director of NACHI. You previously believed that my involvement with NACHI was not in the best interest of NACHI. Nick appointed me to a committee you did not wish to occur. To solve your problem, I withdrew from the CMI committee. Now there is no CMI committee. No Course, NO Exam and therefore no meaningful designation.

Make sure the facts are correct. Was Deanna at all the meetings? Yes. Was I appointed by Nick? Yes. Was I asked to put together the CMI program by NIck? Yes.

Are you suggesting that Nick and Deanna are not part of NACHI.

Now, you have the responsibility if it will occur. You are the Executive Director. Create, formulate, develop and implement a program that will benefit the members. For years Nick has asked this of the volunteers such as yourself.

Decency? What are you implying? Are you implying that the decent thing would to have asked your permission to work on a project that Nick asked me to work on. Are you implying that Nick should not have asked me or I should have asked your permission before accepting a volunteer position which Nick asked me to be involved in?

I don't understand what your previous post was to accomplish.

You have accomplished your goals. No designation, no NACHI CMI and no designation in the near future. On the flip side, no lenders that require designations would be able to use NACHI memners unless they also are members of other organizations.

It is a shame that you are making this a personal thing. I think as the Executive Director of NACHI, which you are you should refrain from half truths which can not be substantiated.

Ask Deanna at NACHI if anything contained in this message is false. You will find that I am correct. Send Deanna and Nick all future correspondence. I have no desire to debate with you about a volunteer position which was involved in. I do not, did not and have never asked for expenses to be paid by NACHI for anything I have done for the organization. I would like all those who question my motives to be able to say the same.
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John Bowman
Executive Director
NACHI Member: Staff
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 2502
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 3:26 PM       Post Subject:
Perfect,

Now it will go where it belongs and that is with the members and the Education Committee and not vendors that have a motive.


The membership should be very happy with your decision.

Thank-you.
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Joe Farsetta

Advanced Professional Services Group, Inc.
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(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 3743
User: jfarsetta
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 4:06 PM       Post Subject:
I believe that this discussion started long ago. With the concept of a Certified Master Inspector designation, cam e the registration of it as a trademark owned by NACHI. Along with this, came the debate.

What is CMI, exactly? Well, it is a designtion, like any other. It should have experience and/or educational requirements to back it. It will. Some should be grandfathered past the requirement to take any sort of course. It should be available everywhere, and not be left in the hands of a few. It should be meaningful, and attainable.

Above all, it should not affect membership status, and it wont. It will not be used on this message board, and such designation its use is limited to marketing information and materials.

So, how to make it real. Well, the concept is interesting in its own right, as there are only so many ways to inspect what is closed, in a non-invasive manner. There would also be an assumption that those eligible to participate has experience in this profession.

So long as CMI is limited to a marketing designation with regard to membership, is available through multiple outlets, and is based on education, experience, and a test, I see nothing wrong with it.

There was a working group set upo to formulate a program. It was designated as 35 hours. It has a nice mix of things in it, including some legal stuff and ancillary discussions directly related to what Inspectors see or run into on most inspections.

I endorse CMI, especially as it will help many members attain their 24 hours or required continuing education per year. I think that folks should calm down a bit and realize thet:

1) those who develop an educational program and teach it are entitled to make some money.

2) the CMI is an asset of NACHI. Its a valuable asset, which left sitting on the shelf, helps no one in this organization.

3) CMI will never affect a member's status in this org. We still have working, affilliate, full, and retired members. CMI is not an internal differentiator, and its use is limited to marketing.

4) it will be based on a number of factors, including education, experience, and testing.

CMI is here, folks.
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Nick Gromicko
Founder
NACHI Member: Staff
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 7876
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 4:09 PM       Post Subject:
Much of this is my fault... I told Deanna a few months ago to get everything prepared for what is clear to me this industry really needs... advanced education.

She put together an exploratory board made up of George Wells, Mike Rose, Tom Lahoun, Bill Merrell, Len Ungar and Joe Ferry (ALL of them NACHI members). They all met in NY city and hammered out the framework for a CMI Curriculum.

They thought they could have it done and roll it out at the convention but there is just not enough time what with hundreds of registered convention attendees already having purchased their plane tickets and hotel rooms.

So they went to plan B which was to hold the first course at Bill's school in NY.

It was always made clear that the schools participating in the CMI advanced education program would collect all the tuition money. Most schools are for-profit entities and so are expected to make the money from it. NACHI has a long standing policy of not accepting outside money for anything (above and beyond membership dues). NACHI doesn't even sell so much as a banner ad on its 101 million+ hit/year website.

Anyway... as with our Trademarking of CMI and Certified Master Inspector, development of the CMI Logo, the CMI qualifying formula at https://www.nachi.org/cmiformula.htm and the CMI Exam at https://www.nachi.org/cmi.htm ...the CMI Curriculum was the next logical step in this long project, which was the main purpose of the NY meeting.

The idea was to eventually offer everything for free to existing home inspection schools so that they in turn could offer an advanced education option to the industry (for a fee paid to the school of course). We are all sick of plumbing 101 courses and you can't expect our veterans to sit through another boring 101 course.

This would help the schools that work with NACHI because NACHI has the ability to pack classrooms. This would help NACHI of course as the CMI is a NACHI professional designation. This would help the industry as I have already (pre-maturely as usual) negotiated even further E&O insurance discounts for graduates. This would help the states that offer licensing as they are prohibiting licensees from repeating the same old basic home inspection continuing education. This would help our members as it would offer them an ADVANCED education option, something that is not readily available now.

Joe Farsetta Chairs Professional Development and so he should chime in here.
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Nick Gromicko
Founder
NACHI Member: Staff
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 7876
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 4:19 PM       Post Subject:
Just a side note with regard to Deanna, staff and me... we view CMI as we do any other NACHI project. Many of our projects take years of work before they are ready to launch. Projects at NACHI can be viewed as products (not projects). Some are sitting on shelves in our warehouse, some are being test driven, some are being packaged and released, some are still on the drawing board. In the case of this particular product (CMI Curriculum) Deanna enlisted the help of several NACHI members to help complete it.

From a business model view, our projects are much like an inventory of products in various stages of the manufacturing process.
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jeffghooper
NACHI Member: No
(as of 3/25/07)
Active Poster
Posts: 173
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 4:20 PM       Post Subject:

Please Note: This user is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with NACHI.
You got the message!
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dwillis
NACHI Member: No
(as of 3/25/07)
Inactive Poster
Posts: 66
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 4:25 PM       Post Subject:

Please Note: This user is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with NACHI.
deleted
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dwillis
NACHI Member: No
(as of 3/25/07)
Inactive Poster
Posts: 66
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 4:29 PM       Post Subject:

Please Note: This user is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with NACHI.
NACHI's office operates like a manufacturing plant of parallel assembly lines. Exactly like one.
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Nick Gromicko
Founder
NACHI Member: Staff
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 7876
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 4:38 PM       Post Subject:
An assembly line without coffee or cigarette breaks icon_lol.gif .

Anyway... if Bill Merrell holds a CMI course in NY, I'm going to be in the front row.
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RUSSELL MYERS

HOME ANALYSIS GROUP.INC.
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 126
User: rmyers1
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 5:08 PM       Post Subject:
Am keeping out of this mess, however I take note of the fact, Best Inspectors Network, after viewing their link, appears to be a minature NACHI.

Also, that none of their Illinois members are NACHI. Possibly they are in other States ?

What goes?

I guess I would question, how this organization got the go ahead to present NACHI's coveted CMI program. to anyone.

Why are we apparently going outside NACHI for this program?
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John Bowman
Executive Director
NACHI Member: Staff
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 2502
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 5:27 PM       Post Subject:
All right finally - conversation.

You both know that I firmly stand behind advanced education. I applaud your commitment to that end and fully support the ideals of CMI and its advanced training - until it was commercialized.

Past President, Joe Hagarty said it best in his post.

(correct me if I am wrong on this Joe)

Started out at 1,050.00.
Went down to $450.00
Ended up cancelled.

As our esteemed member John Onofrey said in one post - "I thought we could use this designation any time we wanted to for free". (If qualified under your formula)

(correct me if I am wrong on this John O.)

While I'm at it, let me quote Nick G.

Quote:
We believe that fees, like taxes, deter professional development and that the best way to encourage the continuing education of our membership is by supporting variety, accessibility and affordability in educational options.


This CMI program lost all credibility in my eyes when it was taken over by vendors, who have now commercialized it and placed a price on its head. It goes against everything that NACHI has stood up for in the past. See Nick's quote above.
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Leonard Ungar

All Around Home Inspections
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 287
User: lungar
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 5:35 PM       Post Subject:
Nick I am glad to see that you are steping up to the plate about the commitee you selected for the CMI program.
I truly hope Bill see fit to come back into the CMI program.

John from the getgo you didn't want the CMI and you said so on the B/B but to stoop as low as you did by saying things about someone on the B/B
which are not true you should get your facts straight. All you had to do was call Nachi or bill before hand. You called bill when you wanted something from him, why didn't you call him before posting your garbage?

John now you are saying that the CMI is in the right hands, first you don't want it, but know it's OK as long as you give your blessing. Boy are you a winner. I think your title has gone to your head, just my thoughts but I think others might also agree with me.

I really get a kick out of some of my fellow members, like it has been said before when you read something on the B/B and you don't agree with it move on. If you think it will help you ask more about it, but I can't understand why anyone would trash something that they are not interested in OH!! WAIT I KNOW they have nothing else to do with there time so why not create havoc within ourselves.

I'm going to stop for now because I don't want to get like the other moners and groners, I think I have said my piece for know.

Regards Len
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John Bowman
Executive Director
NACHI Member: Staff
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 2502
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 5:41 PM       Post Subject:
ok Len,

Quote my post where I trashed Mr. Merrill.

Secondly,

I am against the designation, not the program. Please don't twist my words.
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Leonard Ungar

All Around Home Inspections
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 287
User: lungar
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 6:11 PM       Post Subject:
John,Russell;
Any courses that Nachi has done for the membership is OK as long as the members don't have to pay, is that what your saying?? Well guys who do you think pays the instructors, the couple of seminars that we did on Long Island were great but the instuctors did get paid. You tell me what's the differance if Nachi picks up the shortage or the attendees they still have to get paid, just like you when you do something for someone.
Theres nothing for nothing in this world. one way or the other someone has to get paid, the instuctors,rent for the room,food,drinks,materials for the course. Don't you think that the people that write and teach the courses should get something for there time.

John do you pay all your expenses when you travel for Nachi ????????? [ I DON'T THINK SO ] so what is it, do as I say, not what you say !!!!!!!!!
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Joe Farsetta

Advanced Professional Services Group, Inc.
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 3743
User: jfarsetta
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 6:18 PM       Post Subject:
I am neither against the program, nor against the designation. What is the advantage of it, if not for the fact that an inspector could use the title?

As to going outside of NACHI for this, its not the first time, nor will it be the last, I'm afraid.

I believe CATS doesnt train for free. We pay for People's Energy to train folks in Illinois. On and on. I think that the really important item to consider is that the venue for receiving this educational program be made through multiple outlets, operating within a general framework of course curriculum. Similar to what is happening here in NY, CMI education should be viewed as a framework of modules intended to broaden an inspector's horizon, and ultimately, intuitiveness.

The net result of years of experience is intuition. You've seen it before, and know what it is, or is not. You cant learn that from a book. Sometimes to broaden one's horizon, it may mean going back to square one, and learning something new, or forgotten. That's what's so great about the concept of CMI.

As to following the money, it will undoubtedly go to the for-profit, and not-for-profit institutions who choose to teach it.

As to John O's question, as the designation has a criteria of achievement, one cannot simply use it without NACHI's permission. I also believe that a good number of experienced inspectors will likely qualify to take the exam without needing a course. Of course, if you stop and think about those 24 CEUs NACHI requires, in states where education is not mandatory, this sort of course is beneficial at multiple levels.

Finally, ask yourselves this: when you take those CEUs, do you have to pay for the course? Even if NACHI sponsors it, someone pays.
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John Bowman
Executive Director
NACHI Member: Staff
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 2502
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 6:21 PM       Post Subject:
Len,

Are you know the spokesman for the CMI Committee?

How much is the training?
Who do I write the check out to?
What classes or subjects are covered?
Is there an exam?
After completion can I use the term CMI?
Is this open to "full members" only or to anyone.
Is this open to non-members?
If available to non NACHI Members and they complete the course can they utilize the designation CMI?

Thanks,
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John Bowman
Executive Director
NACHI Member: Staff
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 2502
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 6:26 PM       Post Subject:
Len,

Can a NACHI "working member" go to the class and then utilize the CMI designation after completion?

Can a "candidate member" of ASHI who has been a member for several years (just did not complete all requirements) take this course and then utillize the CMI designation?

What are the limits, if any?
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John Bowman
Executive Director
NACHI Member: Staff
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 2502
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 6:36 PM       Post Subject:
Joe F.

Were you part of the creation of this? Can you point all of us to the rules and regulations on it. Please....

This is all any of us common members are asking.

What criteria was used in the selection of the Committe Members? What were there qualifications?

Have any of them been involved in providing advanced training. If so where?

Do you think it is right that members pay for "Beta" testing?
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John Bowman
Executive Director
NACHI Member: Staff
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 2502
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 6:39 PM       Post Subject:
If you gentlemen feel that NACHI can provide this advanced training at the same costs that we pay for CATS, Gerry B., etc., I'm all for it.

But so far, I have yet to be quoted an exact price. I've seen everything between 450.00 per person on up to 1,050.00 per person.

To expect NACHI to pay these exobent fees would be foolish.
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Leonard Ungar

All Around Home Inspections
NACHI Member: Yes
(as of 3/25/07)
NACHI Member
Posts: 287
User: lungar
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 6:39 PM       Post Subject:
John;
Would you please answer my question from my last post.
DO YOU PAY ALL YOUR EXPENSES WHEN YOU TRAVEL FOR NACHI ??????
PLEASE ANSWER BEFORE ANY MORE TALK WITH YOU, YOU ARE DUCKING MY QUESTION WHY ????????????
I payed all of mine and so did bill infact he even took us out to dinner on him for two nights.

Regards Len
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