Four Point Insurance Inspections & the Certified ICC Inspector

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Calling All Florida Certified ICC Inspectors,

We have confirmation here in Florida that Citizens Insurance Company is accepting Four Point Insurance Inspection reports from ICC Certified Inspectors for older homes without having to use a licensed general and/or electrical contractor to sign off on your work. Note: this only for those inspectors who hold a minimum of both B1 & E1 ICC Certifications.

Besides licensed contractors we believe most insurance companies will also accept Four Point Insurance Inspection reports from licensed building inspectors and insurance adjustors.

We are seeking to do a link exchange with other ICC Certified Inspectors outside the Greater Tampa Bay area for the purpose of securing Four Point Insurance Inspections. Please visit our website and let me know if you would like to be listed. Our site is currently ranked very high in the search engines and you will instantly be able to take advantage of our previous efforts.

Rankings: Google #1, MSN #2, Yahoo #3, AltaVista #6

NOTE: This offer is only being made to ICC Certified Inspectors or Florida State Licensed Contractors and Adjustors.

Thank you,

Joe Burkeson.

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I have done several inspections on houses that are over 50 years old without bringing in an electrician. I just put my ICC number on the report and the client sends it in. Everyone of them has been accepted.

The bottom line here for NACHI Members in Florida is to get your ICC Certifications if you want to perform this service for Citizens Insurance. I am sure that most of you realize that they will be the only insurer in Florida 5 to 10 years from now.

Would anyone be interested in taking a workshop on preparing for the ICC certifications?

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I am Greg!!!

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And if you know the basics of the NEC you should have no problem getting the ICC Residential Electrical Certification. Heck if you just know the IRC’s chapters on Electrical you should have no problems passing that test…piece of cake.

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Hi Paul,

Which ICC Certification do you hold? I have the E1, but my background is commercial electrical contracting when I lived in New York City. I plan to sit for both the Commercial & Plans Examiner tests later this year, have you taken those certification tests? If so, what study material did you use to prepare yourself?

Thanks - Joe.

BTW - Still looking for Certified ICC Members or License holders who want to exchange links, email me at Joe@Square-OneInspection.com.

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I have ICC Residential Electrical Inspector…

I have not taken the others you mention…I never really venture outside of the electrical area of my testing…not sure why…Just never have.

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I just got off the phone with Citizens Insurance and ICC certification was not on their list of acceptable qualifications for 4 point inspectors. Their reply was to either get a GC license or an Electrician license or you can be a member of ASHI or FABI. ICC was not on their list.

Who did you get this information from? What person did you contact at citizens? I would like confirmation from someone with authority at citizens before I go on any wild goose chases.

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I received this information from my own experience, I have submitted many reports this year and none have been rejected. Granted I am a both an ASHI & FABI member, but I do not use the approved ASHI form, nor do I submit my ASHI # within the report. I use one report I created myself and I submit with all four of my ICC Certificates. I do not know what your experience will be but this has been mine, as a matter of fact just today I inspected a Citizens house built in 1955, and do not anticipate any problems.

Citizens is a government agency, call tomorrow and speak with someone else and you will get another story no doubt. I hear it over and over that ASHI guys regularly are having their reports rejected. I believe the report you use can be the culprit, most of these forms are handled by minimum-wage clerks. If your form is too complex or the condition is not easily understood and the clerk is required to seek help from their supervisor chances are that your inspection will be rejected. Remember to only use Good, Fair or Poor as your qualifiers and include the age & expected life remaining and you will have less trouble. I hope this was helpful. This is the certification page I include with all reports sent to Citizens and no inspections have been rejected.

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It is my fault that some of you are only focused on Four point inspections. I should have and will in the future focus on the other benefits of being ICC certified. Being able to perform Four Points is just one small benefit of being ICC Certified. I have had the same experience as Joe with submitting my reports to citizens on homes older than 50 years old. I include my ICC Number and have never had one returned. I don’t include my FABI Number simply because I don’t want to have to submit the 6 page report that is required to do so. I much prefer having a two page report with my ICC Number.

Now that the resale market is slowing down and there are not as many inspections to be performed as in the past inspectors will need to diversify to allow them to remain in business through this market adjustment. Being able to perform new construction and warranty inspections provides another source of revenue. If you want to break into those markets there is no better qualification than being ICC Code Certified. The builders will treat you much differently than they would if you were just another home inspector. By being ICC Certified they know that you have the same qualifications as the municipal inspector that oversees their jobs.

ICC is a certification that is recognized without having any association bias. It is recognized throughout the world as a standard of accomplishment.

I hope that this gives a better understanding of what an ICC Certification can do for you.

Thanks,

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On a side note, I just finalized negotiations with the 7th largest independent insurance brokerage in the United States. One of my biggest selling points was that I could supply a network of ICC Certified inspectors throughout the State of Florida and eventually the United States. So I know that being ICC Certified has some meaning to the insurance industry.

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I gotta go take that test Greg. Just for the hell of it.

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Hi Dale,

Hell I thought you had more certifications than Joe and I combined. I hope that we can all meet while you are in Tampa.

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Greg

Who has had any 4 point inspections rejected?? Who has been kicked off a new construction site and for what??

While ICC is a good thing – Is it a requirement for anything??

Let not over rate something just to get people to take a class or spend a lot of time to get something that they do not need

I have seen some posts on this that gives the idea that ICC is being required for this or that and a little research shows nothing

Now if the state of Florida required one to be ICC rated in one or two areas to do home inspections that would be a different story.

Take an open book exam and you are good to go as long as the exam asks questions related to inspections and not building code

rlb

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Im Going To The Orlando Boot Camp Hope This Will Be The Magic Bullet For 4 Point

Steve

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Deleted

rlb

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Joe, I have called Citizens insurance twice and no one will confirm this is the case. I have also called a few local insurance agents to write citizens policies they don’t have this in their citizens manuals. Do you have someone in Citizens as a point of contact for this? It would truly help me feel more confident.

I hate to say this but a simple “we’ve been getting away with it” or “goverment employees are dumb, you’ll get something else next time you call” is not enough to convince me. Please keep in mind that if they are accepting your 4 points because someone is not paying attention is bad news waiting to happen.

And don’t get me wrong I like the ICC certifications for several reasons. And I had been planning on taking these certs anyway. As you know I had signed up for your class.

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How many ways would you like for us to answer this question for you?

No we do not have anything in writing from Citizens that says they will accept four points from ICC. What we do have is many accepted four points with citizens using our ICC certifications.

You may twist the words anyway you like. If you are not comfortable with that then don’t do it. The choice is yours.

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Hi Jeffrey,

Over the past few weeks I was almost looking forward to Citizens bouncing one back because at that point I will get the ICC involved in making sure that ICC Inspectors become listed in their manuals.

Think about it Citizens now accepts reports from licensed contractors and ASHI & FABI home inspectors, there is no denying that ICC Certified Inspectors are equally qualified to do insurance inspections. The case can be made that we are better qualified then contractors because inspecting is our primary occupation and we have nothing to gain from performing unnecessary repair work.

The way I see it is that ICC Inspectors win regardless of what happens, because the certification allows you to do far more then simple insurance inspections. In regards to Citizens, If Citizens continues to accept our ICC reports as written, fine. If they decide to one day reject a report because ICC is not an accepted inspector we can then move forward on Phase II of our plan and enlist ICC’s help to insure that ICC Inspectors become listed as approved insurance inspectors.

BTW, I did not become ICC Certified to merely perform Four-Point Insurance Inspections, the real power of the certification lies in what it will do for you in areas like New Construction & Warranty Inspections. If performing insurance inspections was the only goal you had in mind for ICC Certification you should maybe consider joining one of the afore mentioned groups who are already approved to perform these inspections instead of taking our course and spending the time & money required to become ICC Certified.

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Greg

This is such a mess.

Last Wed I did a four point where the home was a little short of a full cup of water (roof leaked a little)

I told my client that if her insurance co did not accept my report that I would refund my fee because right now we do not know what insurance co will take what. She did not know who the co was because it was going thought a general agent. I talked with her agent and he did not know what they would accept.

Now how can we take money in good faith for a job that we do not know if it will be accepted by the inc Co??

In short I have never been rejected but I have some properties that in my opinion needed repair before they needed insurance. In those cases I have come back later at NC after repairs have been made.

I do a 4 point inspection with a home inspection if requested for an extra $50.00 if I do not have to go back to the home later — The date I use is the date of the inspection.

This ICC / insurance issue will pass in time like all issues of the moment, but for now it sure is a good BB subject.

The real issue is not ICC but the Florida insurance mess – and now we are going to do wind inspections for $150.00 where a home owner can get $5000.00!!! Do we see a problem here??? (The contractors like the inspectors must be on the Florida “approved list”)

BTW how is it that two companies that have little background in HI get a state contract worth big $$ to do inspections??? One day of training and you are good to go. Oh yes you have to pay them $$ to get trained. I wonder what the state is paying them??

I want to be the inspector that checks the inspectors for taking side $$$ to say that someone needs a new garage door.

We have to get the government out of the business of business including insurance. This is not their job

Too much coffee again

Oh I forgot – I am on Greg’s bad list because I say little of value - Right now I am seeing little value in an answer to a question by saying “How many ways would you like for us to answer this question for you” (who is US??)

Right now we have ICC and other issues on the same plate with insurance and it is just not so.

This sound like a job for the front office of NACHI - Nick is on the board or something of another Florida inspection association — thus a good spoke person for our profession – so lets kick this up stairs and get some answers before we spend more time spinning our wheels in the sand.

rlb