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  #391  
Old 3/21/13, 12:50 PM
Joe Farsetta's Avatar
Joe Farsetta Joe Farsetta is offline
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Default Re: Nathan & Dominic: Does HON reveal or sell our client's information to alarm sales

Integration with report writing software is convenient. But why, may I ask, is it necessary at all?

Why cant the inspector simply referr the client to HON, separate from their software package?

And, as stated previously, this is not about Russel or Dominic.

It goes directly to the concept of covert marketing and clients being unaware (and perhaps inspectors) of what the information is being used for, and who it is being made available to.

This is why Congress has opened investigations. This is why the FTC is going aftr companies large and small, and winning cases.

Like Russ said, its about trust.

As to the notion of a contecator or other inspector mitigating my risk... well the jury is out on that one. Especially if that inspector says that you were right on one breath, and wrong on the next.

Someone is trying to cash in on $$$. While this is fine, I remind all to try and gauge any true financial benefit to the inspector in all of this. Also, please remember that we are the lowest paid participant in the entire real estate transaction. Schemes which profit on the backs of the iinspectors, and have the potential to harm relationships with our client base, only help perpetuate us being regarded as the ragged refuse.
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  #392  
Old 3/21/13, 1:22 PM
Stephen W. Stanczyk's Avatar
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Default Re: Nathan & Dominic: Does HON reveal or sell our client's information to alarm sales

Quote:
Originally Posted by gromicko View Post
Stephen, I said I came up with the algorithm (not software) that would allow you to categorize different inspection reports written by different inspectors on different reporting platforms by defects discovered based on my algorithm in which you take the frequency of use of a term in a particular report and compare it to the inspector's average use of that same term in past reports. In other words, you don't just scan for keywords like "leak." but rather you compare keywords like "roof" in a report to that particular inspector's average use of that same keyword in his/her past reports to determine if the home has an issue, without having to actually read the report. It's not how many times an inspector mentions the word "roof" in a report that matters, it's how many times an inspector mentions the word in comparison to his average use of the word. This simple algorithm allow categorization of different reports based on defects discovered, even though they are written by different inspectors on different platforms.

That's basically the algorithm again.
There is an old adage. When you are trying to get out or a hole, stop digging. An algorithm is a program. A computer cannot operate without commands / programs. So once again:

What language did you use to write the algorithm / program?
Oh, and you say it is a simple algorithm, how many hours did it take you. I know the range it would take a professional programmer, let's see how long it took a BS artist....

Simple questions were asked. Why no answers?




Stephen Stanczyk
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  #393  
Old 3/21/13, 1:44 PM
Jeff Spencer's Avatar
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Default Re: Nathan & Dominic: Does HON reveal or sell our client's information to alarm sales

Wouldn't it be easier if you all met at the bike rack after school? Take turns kicking each other in the junk, and then go have a beer afterwards.



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  #394  
Old 3/21/13, 1:51 PM
Dominic J. Maricic's Avatar
Dominic J. Maricic Dominic J. Maricic is online now
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Default Re: Nathan & Dominic: Does HON reveal or sell our client's information to alarm sales

Quote:
Originally Posted by gromicko View Post
Dom writes: And when were you going to let InterNACHI know about this phrase? InterNACHI's free, online inspection agreement system executes hundreds of thousands of inspection agreements.
I'll have Kevin send it to you. I think they're still having attorneys look it over.




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  #395  
Old 3/21/13, 2:04 PM
Dominic J. Maricic's Avatar
Dominic J. Maricic Dominic J. Maricic is online now
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Default Re: Nathan & Dominic: Does HON reveal or sell our client's information to alarm sales

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfarsetta View Post
Integration with report writing software is convenient. But why, may I ask, is it necessary at all?

Why cant the inspector simply referr the client to HON, separate from their software package?

And, as stated previously, this is not about Russel or Dominic.

It goes directly to the concept of covert marketing and clients being unaware (and perhaps inspectors) of what the information is being used for, and who it is being made available to.

This is why Congress has opened investigations. This is why the FTC is going aftr companies large and small, and winning cases.

Like Russ said, its about trust.

As to the notion of a contecator or other inspector mitigating my risk... well the jury is out on that one. Especially if that inspector says that you were right on one breath, and wrong on the next.

Someone is trying to cash in on $$$. While this is fine, I remind all to try and gauge any true financial benefit to the inspector in all of this. Also, please remember that we are the lowest paid participant in the entire real estate transaction. Schemes which profit on the backs of the iinspectors, and have the potential to harm relationships with our client base, only help perpetuate us being regarded as the ragged refuse.
Here's why Integration is important:

Time to input client information, agent & house info into scheduler: 5 minutes
Time to input client information, agent & house info into report software: 5 minutes
Time to input client information, agent & house info into RecallChek: 5 minutes
Time to input client information, agent & house info into HON: 5 minutes
Time to input client & agent information into newsletter program: 3 minutes

Time saved by having software talk to each other : 18 minutes. 18 minutes x 300 inspections/year = 5,400 minutes aka 90 hours of your life saved.

Average inspector values their time at $100/hour. That means you save $9,000 by having your software work together.

Note that this does not include time saved by having a system like ISN automatically email your contract, inspection reminders, text reminders, follow up survey, follow up 11 month warranty email, etc. Add another 20 minutes per inspection on top and double the money saved if you want to look at all that.

The thing is Joe that there's been programs that have online reports for a decade now. You definitely need to make sure to stay on top of things to make sure no one ever heads to the dark side, but so far, so good.




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  #396  
Old 3/21/13, 2:06 PM
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Nick Gromicko, CMI Nick Gromicko, CMI is online now
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Default Re: Nathan & Dominic: Does HON reveal or sell our client's information to alarm sales

Stephen, it isn't a computer program, it's an algorithm... a flow chart, described in 3 previous posts. Fits on a napkin. Yes, I came up with it myself.

Scraping data from a report is one thing. Using my algorithm allows that data to be sorted by defect, even when the reports are on different homes, written by different inspectors, using different report writing systems. Two reports written by two different inspectors on two different report systems mentioning the same keyword the exact same number of times could result in them being sorted differently by defect using my algorithm because it isn't based on number of keyword references but rather number of keyword references in comparison to average number of references used by the same inspector derived from his/her past reports.

Programs aren't algorithms. Programs use algorithms.

I can keep explaining it for ya, but I can't understand it for ya.

Last edited by gromicko; 3/21/13 at 2:13 PM..
  #397  
Old 3/21/13, 2:07 PM
James H. Bushart James H. Bushart is offline
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Default Re: Nathan & Dominic: Does HON reveal or sell our client's information to alarm sales

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaricic View Post
The thing is Joe that there's been programs that have online reports for a decade now.
Dom ... there has never been an expressed interest from on-line report providers to combine their efforts to make additional money from the sale of the access to this private information before. Has there?
  #398  
Old 3/21/13, 2:14 PM
Dominic J. Maricic's Avatar
Dominic J. Maricic Dominic J. Maricic is online now
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Default Re: Nathan & Dominic: Does HON reveal or sell our client's information to alarm sales

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbushart View Post
Dom ... there has never been an expressed interest from on-line report providers to combine their efforts to make additional money from the sale of the access to this private information before. Has there?
Good question, and there's a very important answer here. Software providers like HIP, HomeGauge, 3D, Palm Tech, ARE NOT making any money off of HON!! They are ONLY integrating with HON to make things easier for their users. See my post above about saving time. Software vendors that don't integrate with programs like RecallChek, ISN and HON lose users and sales we need to continue being in business and supporting our users. I can tell you that as fact as I've been hearing it for years "We won't buy unless you integrate with X."

Note that I included HIP. HIP is not working for HON, I am personally, there's a difference there.

Also remember that there's still not as this is something the client must agree and sign up for. Nothing private is being transmitted. The information isn't private once the client agrees to have their name, email, address, etc shared.




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  #399  
Old 3/21/13, 2:50 PM
James H. Bushart James H. Bushart is offline
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Default Re: Nathan & Dominic: Does HON reveal or sell our client's information to alarm sales

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaricic View Post
Good question, and there's a very important answer here. Software providers like HIP, HomeGauge, 3D, Palm Tech, ARE NOT making any money off of HON!! They are ONLY integrating with HON to make things easier for their users. See my post above about saving time. Software vendors that don't integrate with programs like RecallChek, ISN and HON lose users and sales we need to continue being in business and supporting our users. I can tell you that as fact as I've been hearing it for years "We won't buy unless you integrate with X."

Note that I included HIP. HIP is not working for HON, I am personally, there's a difference there.

Also remember that there's still not as this is something the client must agree and sign up for. Nothing private is being transmitted. The information isn't private once the client agrees to have their name, email, address, etc shared.
Thanks, Dom.

I have another question. Since you and other software providers already have the capacity to share all of your reports with HON, what assurances (beyond personal trust and legal interpretations) does an inspector's client have that his personal information about himself and his home will not be shared with other entities without his knowledge or consent?

I understand that participation with HON and the newsletter will require his (the client's) consent ... but I also understand that another vendor might have been originally assured of his ability to purchase information without the client's or inspector's consent.

That potential for a future and similar arrangement still exists with other vendors, does it not?

Other than the personal promises of the present owners of this data --- what assurances does a client or inspector have that his reports, once in the hands of other businessmen, will not be used for purposes not presently intended?
  #400  
Old 3/21/13, 2:54 PM
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Default Re: Nathan & Dominic: Does HON reveal or sell our client's information to alarm sales

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbushart View Post
Thanks, Dom.

I have another question. Since you and other software providers already have the capacity to share all of your reports with HON, what assurances (beyond personal trust and legal interpretations) does an inspector's client have that his personal information about himself and his home will not be shared with other entities without his knowledge or consent?

I understand that participation with HON and the newsletter will require his (the client's) consent ... but I also understand that another vendor might have been originally assured of his ability to purchase information without the client's or inspector's consent.

That potential for a future and similar arrangement still exists with other vendors, does it not?

Other than the personal promises of the present owners of this data --- what assurances does a client or inspector have that his reports, once in the hands of other businessmen, will not be used for purposes not presently intended?
Hold up, reports ARE NOT shared with HON (just to be clear).

As far as the rest of what you're asking I know that a Terms of Service is being drafted by HON's attorneys. I'm not sure if it's done yet or not, I'll need to check it out. But that's basically where your answer would be as far as an assurance.




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  #401  
Old 3/21/13, 3:00 PM
grussell grussell is offline
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Default Re: Nathan & Dominic: Does HON reveal or sell our client's information to alarm sales

I have a question.....who cares what Jim Bushart thinks? It's my understanding that he left this field for another licensed field.....
What little credibility he had left with him imo.



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  #402  
Old 3/21/13, 3:10 PM
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Stephen W. Stanczyk Stephen W. Stanczyk is online now
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Default Re: Nathan & Dominic: Does HON reveal or sell our client's information to alarm sales

Quote:
Originally Posted by gromicko View Post
Stephen, it isn't a computer program, it's an algorithm... a flow chart, described in 3 previous posts. Fits on a napkin. Yes, I came up with it myself.

Scraping data from a report is one thing. Using my algorithm allows that data to be sorted by defect, even when the reports are on different homes, written by different inspectors, using different report writing systems. Two reports written by two different inspectors on two different report systems mentioning the same keyword the exact same number of times could result in them being sorted differently by defect using my algorithm because it isn't based on number of keyword references but rather number of keyword references in comparison to average number of references used by the same inspector derived from his/her past reports.

Programs aren't algorithms. Programs use algorithms.

I can keep explaining it for ya, but I can't understand it for ya.
So you didn't actually write a program then? You made the blueprints of a project that could take months to build and just made it sound like you already had it working?

Still waiting for answers to original questions....




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  #403  
Old 3/21/13, 3:10 PM
James H. Bushart James H. Bushart is offline
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Default Re: Nathan & Dominic: Does HON reveal or sell our client's information to alarm sales

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaricic View Post
Hold up, reports ARE NOT shared with HON (just to be clear).

As far as the rest of what you're asking I know that a Terms of Service is being drafted by HON's attorneys. I'm not sure if it's done yet or not, I'll need to check it out. But that's basically where your answer would be as far as an assurance.
How does HON know to recommend a pool cleaner (I think that is the example given, previously) if they do not know that there is a pool on the property?
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  #404  
Old 3/21/13, 3:54 PM
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Default Re: Nathan & Dominic: Does HON reveal or sell our client's information to alarm sales

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbushart View Post
How does HON know to recommend a pool cleaner (I think that is the example given, previously) if they do not know that there is a pool on the property?
Check out the webinar we did when you get a chance as I show how it works in HIP: http://www.homeinspectorpro.com/Home...ork-a-isn.html

Basically when the inspector clicks the big : SUBMIT to HON button it asks the inspector to check a box if there's a pool. This is so we can send them a newsletter based on cleaning their own pools for example, with a coupon in the newsletter to a pool cleaning company. So it's totally separate from the actual report.




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  #405  
Old 3/21/13, 3:56 PM
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James L. Keilson James L. Keilson is offline
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Default Re: Nathan & Dominic: Does HON reveal or sell our client's information to alarm sales

Quote:
Originally Posted by grussell View Post
I have a question.....who cares what Jim Bushart thinks? It's my understanding that he left this field for another licensed field.....
What little credibility he had left with him imo.
Way out of line there cowboy. Many of us are what Jim has to say. Jim B is one of the most intelligent people in this profession and many should take notes. Just because right now he is doing other work not quite exactly Home Inspection per se, doesn't matter. The guy knows his shi..T about home inspections, and more importantly he knows the reality of other life/business situations which are all a vital component to running a safe, sound and prudent business.

Some of you people are so blinded by the BS that some vendors shovel you lose track of reality. Nick, Jim B, Joe Farsetta, heck even me and Many others are not out to directly attack any vendor. Why all the questions and interrogations are only to help protect any of us from getting Screwed down the road from any improprieties that have been overlooked. If you want to be a sheep and simply follow the heard that choice is yours. If you want to be a bit more careful and do some prudent research before something bad happens, well then that is also your choice. I personally believe in choice #2 myself.

Jim




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