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Legislation, Licensing, Ethics & Legal Issues for Inspectors Use this forum to discuss current and proposed legislation on home inspector licensing, and other legal issues affecting home inspectors. Inspectors from all associations welcome.

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  #1  
Old 12/4/14, 12:56 PM
Nick Gromicko, CMI's Avatar
Nick Gromicko, CMI Nick Gromicko, CMI is online now
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Default Denver Chapter licensing meeting.

Hey Gang,
We will be doing a round table / general discussion. Jim has emailed David Barber to find out where we are in the Licensing Bill.

Attached you will find the DORA Sunrise study for Home Inspectors.

Please take the time to review and have any questions or responses ready for Tuesdays meeting.

This is an important topic and we would like to have input and to keep all inspectors informed of what may happen. Please get involved and give us your input to give to Jim and anything you would like to forward to Nick.

Our inspector meetings are held the second Tuesday of each month at the Perkins Restaurant located in South East Denver at Colorado Boulevard and Buchtel Boulevard starting at 7:00 pm. See you there!

Best Regards,
Bill Schaefer.
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  #2  
Old 12/4/14, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: Denver Chapter licensing meeting.

https://www.nachi.org/documents2012/C...n-Industry.pdf
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  #3  
Old 12/4/14, 3:59 PM
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Gary Farnsworth, CMI Gary Farnsworth, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Denver Chapter licensing meeting.

Licensing will only create basic, minimal standards, which will never protect the public. Only high home inspector standards, created and promoted by real estate agents, will home buyers be properly informed in the largest purchase they are likely to make in their lifetimes.

Sad, how real estate agents want licensing, so they can hire the cheapest home inspector, because, he has a state license. Then, basic reports will be created, the home will sell, and the home buyer will get the shaft.

Lawmakers must see the SOP's, standards of practice, and rules and regulations before any HI law is voted on. They must do this. Think Obama Care, immigration, etc. What a mess lawmakers will create.

The tax payer is the one who will lose, such as what happened in Kansas, where the laws were stopped.

If inspectors are to be licensed, then all trades people, roofers, home builders, sheet rock installers, plumbers, electricians, all must be licensed, and state wide building codes must be established, so inspectors can state if a defect is truly, a defect. Homes built must be monitored and documented by state officials, dozens of code enforcement officers hired, and offices to regulate all of them. I hope your state has the funding in place, or it will be just another debacle.



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  #4  
Old 12/4/14, 6:35 PM
David Hays David Hays is offline
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Default Re: Denver Chapter licensing meeting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gfarnsworth View Post
Licensing will only create basic, minimal standards, which will never protect the public. Only high home inspector standards, created and promoted by real estate agents, will home buyers be properly informed in the largest purchase they are likely to make in their lifetimes.

Sad, how real estate agents want licensing, so they can hire the cheapest home inspector, because, he has a state license. Then, basic reports will be created, the home will sell, and the home buyer will get the shaft.

Lawmakers must see the SOP's, standards of practice, and rules and regulations before any HI law is voted on. They must do this. Think Obama Care, immigration, etc. What a mess lawmakers will create.

The tax payer is the one who will lose, such as what happened in Kansas, where the laws were stopped.

If inspectors are to be licensed, then all trades people, roofers, home builders, sheet rock installers, plumbers, electricians, all must be licensed, and state wide building codes must be established, so inspectors can state if a defect is truly, a defect. Homes built must be monitored and documented by state officials, dozens of code enforcement officers hired, and offices to regulate all of them. I hope your state has the funding in place, or it will be just another debacle.
Not every state is like Kansas with no licensing.
DORA This is the State Dept of Regulatory Agencies
CITY OF DENVER
Depending on the area, construction work, water heater replacement etc must be inspected by the AHJ which can be the city, county or state depending on the location.
Were not in Kansas Toto!
Have a great day Gary.



David Hays
All Points Property Inspections LLC
Denver, CO
720-217-7821
david@allpointinspect.com
www.allpointshomeinspections.org
www.denvercommercialinspections.com
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  #5  
Old 12/4/14, 7:16 PM
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Gary Farnsworth, CMI Gary Farnsworth, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Denver Chapter licensing meeting.

Depending on location. Hmmm...

All counties and cities in your state must all have the same building codes, if the HI's all have the same licensing rules and regulations throughout your state. All tradespeople, who do any kind of home repairs or home building, must also be licensed, have rules and regulations. If you do an inspection in a mountain cabin, where there are no building codes, or licensing for repair persons, how do you really know that the cabin is habitable?

Do you understand? Have your lawmakers investigate Texas, where rules, regulations, forms, are all regulated by the RE agents, and litigation abounds.

Looks like I will be black-balled again from doing inspections because I stated the truth.



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Last edited by gfarnsworth; 12/4/14 at 7:24 PM..
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  #6  
Old 12/4/14, 7:23 PM
David Hays David Hays is offline
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Default Re: Denver Chapter licensing meeting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gfarnsworth View Post
Depending on location. Hmmm...

All counties and cities in your state must all have the same building codes, if the HI's all have the same licensing rules and regulations throughout your state. All tradespeople, who do any kind of home repairs or home building, must also be licensed, have rules and regulations. If you do an inspection in a mountain cabin, where there are no building codes, or licensing for repair persons, how do you really know that the cabin is habitable?

Do you understand? Have your lawmakers investigate Texas, where rules, regulations, forms, are all regulated by the RE agents, and litigation abounds.
Gary, why do you seem to think that just because Kansas has no building codes, licensing or enforcement that every other state is the same? We do have those in place here. I'm not saying that everything is perfect but this is not Kansas. I also didn't say that I'm in favor of licensing.
https://www.google.com/search?q=colo...a&channel=fflb



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  #7  
Old 12/4/14, 7:29 PM
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Gary Farnsworth, CMI Gary Farnsworth, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Denver Chapter licensing meeting.

I am just pointing out to you and the HI's in Colorado that licensing actually dumbs down your profession, because licensing only creates a minimum standard, which the RE agents want. So, everyone will be $199 and do the same basic minimum report, because you are "licensed".

After all, everyone that has a driver's license is a good driver. Every beautician that has a license knows how to cut your hair. Every fisherman who has a license knows how to fish.............................



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  #8  
Old 12/5/14, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: Denver Chapter licensing meeting.

Interesting, in the 6 examples that I read.. there seems to be a pattern there. Is it consumer protection that is sought or ???



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  #9  
Old 12/5/14, 12:37 PM
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Gary Farnsworth, CMI Gary Farnsworth, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Denver Chapter licensing meeting.

Tim, nice call. The 6 examples state one thing: that the agent failed to do his/her fiduciary duty. Bottom line, it is the REA that should suggest the best home inspector. They do not. They want the basic, licensed HI's to do the inspections, as to not alarm the home buyer.

That is what all state licensing has become: basic.

They were using the same HI's. If they have a problem, find another one. Yet, they keep using the same buddy HI's.



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  #10  
Old 12/5/14, 2:45 PM
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Default Re: Denver Chapter licensing meeting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gfarnsworth View Post
I am just pointing out to you and the HI's in Colorado that licensing actually dumbs down your profession, because licensing only creates a minimum standard, which the RE agents want. So, everyone will be $199 and do the same basic minimum report, because you are "licensed".

After all, everyone that has a driver's license is a good driver. Every beautician that has a license knows how to cut your hair. Every fisherman who has a license knows how to fish.............................
Can you elaborate on why making a home inspector required to get educated (to pass a license test) would be worse for the profession than no education? In my state anyone can call them self a home inspector and they don't have to know what a water heater looks like. To use your drivers license example, its like giving a blind person a license to drive instead of having them meet some requirements.

Personally, I do not want any more government intervention in my life than I have to have, but I don't get what all of your hand wringing is about.




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  #11  
Old 12/5/14, 3:06 PM
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Dan Bowers, CMI, ACI Dan Bowers, CMI, ACI is online now
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Default Re: Denver Chapter licensing meeting.

For many of you that question Gary Farnsworth, let me point out a few things.

Most states have way less home inspectors than they do other professions (especially commissioned real estate sales people).

We are not perfect BUT in many checks thru groups like the BBB, HADD, state AG's offices home inspectors ranked real LOW on filed complaints. In several states we had LESS complaints than florists.

From conversations with multiple insurance carriers MOST (not all) lawsuits filed against home inspectors end up being frivilous.

Quote:
MOST states where licensing has been PUSHED has been done by the commissioned real estate sales people OR 1 specific home inspection group NOT by the real consumers.
Once PUSHED at the legislation by one OR both of the above 2 groups .... You see the SPECIAL interest groups line up to get on the GRAVY Train ...... (trial attorneys, insurance carriers, inspection schools or trainers, the associations to see WHOSE SoP the state gonna use OR to pack the 1st BoD so they can get rules favorable to them, and last but NOT least the TESTING group

Once corralled and saddled THEY drop crap onto the inspector that most other groups DON'T require. It is quite common that IF licensing is passed this year, that next year the POWER group now ADDS something extra to the LAW ... LIKE lets say E&O insurance (Texas and Kansas are good examples).

In Kansas they wanted HI's to carry E&O insurance to GET a license although Realtors did not have to, doctors did not have to, lawyers did not have to, WDI inspectors did not have to, contractors did not have to, etc, etc.

BOTTOM LINE ..... Once we're licensed any other group with more people, more $$$$, more legislative clout (almost ANYBODY) can pull our chain.


UNLESS you were dumb OR had your nose in a Realtors Shorts WHY would any competent inspector want that for themselves???
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  #12  
Old 12/5/14, 3:29 PM
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Gary Farnsworth, CMI Gary Farnsworth, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Denver Chapter licensing meeting.

Thanks, Dan. All true.

Think of the 80/20 rule. 80% of home inspectors want to follow. They want to do what other inspectors do. They want to please the real estate agents. They want to follow rules, regulations to the letter.

20% of inspectors want to lead. They are the ones who write the rules, scream to lawmakers that licensing is needed, tell what other inspectors how to run their business, what educational classes to take, what insurance to carry, etc.

Personally, they all need to get the he** out of my way, so I can run my own business the way I see fit, and serve my client, the home buyer, to the best of my ability.

By the way, take a survey. See how many consumer complaints you can find against home inspectors; find how many home buyers attend hearings and write letters to lawmakers stating why licensing is needed.

My survey: zero.



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