----- Original Message ----- From:Huegen, Corey To:FastReply@nachi.org Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 3:35 PM Subject: Roof Damage
Hello,
I had about 60-75% of the shingles on my southern slope of a ranch residential home torn off in an April 2nd storm. On the northern slope, no shingles were torn off, however there are a lot of shingles are lifted off. The insurance company was claiming this as a manufacturing defect and therefore would not compensate me at all for that side of the house. After one month of debunking the several barriers they laid in front of me and persisting I was unhappy with their offer, they are agreeing to pay for re-sealing the shingles. My contractor is refusing to re-seal stating the base sheet gets cracked when the shingles are lifted up and therefore will sometimes leak more when the shingles are just re-sealed. I would like to have an opinion on whether or not re-sealing shingles has possible negative consequences. Also, does having two different types of shingles on opposite slopes devalue my home?
FYI: I have Celotex shingles, 30-year dimensional shake. I am changing to Owens-Corning Oak Ridge II on my southern slope, which my research and several contractors say is the top of the line.
Pictures always help, but just guessing on your notes I would say for sure you need a whole new roof if you had that many missing shingles from the other section(s). Often times wind damage will lift up sections (perhaps 3 x 3 foot sections) and lay them back down. So even when a professional roofer inspects the roof, they cannot see the full extend of the damage. If so, the only thing holding them in place is the slight bond between the tar tabs which will shortly fail and the shingles will begin to slide off. It sounds like they may be saying the shingles are nailed high (which is improper and will cause them to come loose) but this is an installation defect, not a manufacture defect. There is no proper way to reseal a wind damaged roof. Anyone that sells you this repair is only giving you piece of mind, not a proper repair.
I just saw the fyi comment about the Celotex 30 year shingles. It really helps to see a pic, but if they have upward blisters, it sounds like a manufacture defect.
It all depends …
Manufacturing defects and storm damage should be easy to keep separate.
Improper installation is a whole other problem and voids mfg’s warranties.
Try to verifiy the proper installation of what’s left of the old roof shingles, and take that aspect out of contention. If the old side otherwise looks like an 8 year old roof should, meaning no mfg defects, that ONLY the tabs have been lifted by the wind momentarily, then I believe sealing them back down will restore their performance. If they have been whipped in the wind for hours then they may be just like hinges now, resulting in that “cracked base sheet” mentioned earlier. My suggestion would be to ask for a “roof certification” of 5 years by whom ever does the replacement work on the southern exposure. If they are willing to stand behind their close analysis of that roof, and given the repairs they intend to execute, and in essence offer a warranty, based on what they see, then I say take it. Be sure to get it in writing. If they say they are not comfortable certifying that half of the roof, ask your insurance company to provide a qualified contactor that will offer such assurances. If nobody including the insurance company’s selected roofer will stand behind it after repairing, then why should you have to accept it ?
that’s my two cents, hope it helps
It sounds to me like a typical pass the buck issue. The insurance company says man. defect and the manufacturer will say improper installation. Ask the insurance co. for an independant evaluation and present it to the shingle manufacturer. If the manufacturer says it is not a defect go after the insurance co. I hope you have deep pockets. Were I you I would just redo the roof and bite the bullit.
Larry
I would replace the whole roof. Why would the roofer guarantee a fix when he can offer a full warranty? Also if only half of the shingles are replaced you now have two different aging systems. Better to replace the whole works so it is aging at the same time.
As far as improper installation, that was one of the first things the insurance company stating they thought was wrong. After getting a diagram of the proper installation and inspecting the shingles this was not the issue. The insurance company then said it was deterioration of the shingle, i.e. it was in bad shape. After discussing the issue with the manufacturer, and by obvious visual inspection of the shingles, this was discarded as well. Then the insurance company claimed the manufacturing defect with the seal. However the Engineering firm the insurance company had me call said it is not necessarily a manufacturing defect if there is dirt under the shingles preventing them from re-sealing. I had already mentioned the dirt under the shingles to the insurance company in one of my first phone calls to them. The insurance rep said he still didn’t think that changed his position. After asking for his Supervisor’s name and number, 5 minutes later I get called with an offering of $500 to re-seal the shingles. I asked him how he could quote a price without ever seeing the extent of the damage (i.e. they have repeatedly refused to inspect the shingles again because they say the problem is a manufacturing defect, using the previously mentioned engineering firm who evidently told them in the past that if wind breaks the seal of the shingle, it will fly off without exception and cannot be left un-sealed. Of course my conversation with an employee of that firm did not totally agree with that statement). After asking other professional engineers, it appears they agree with the contractor since any shingles that have been lifted through nails leaving a hole in them will leak, and the underlying base sheet may be cracked allowing the plywood deck to dry rot and potentially cause molding in my attic insulation. Also, there is no guarantee every shingle is re-sealed, and it does not fix the shingles that did suffer some cracking or tearing. I am waiting for the employee of the insurance company’s Engineering firm to get back tomorrow to ask him about these people’s concerns.
In any event, I found that wind speed across the entire region were 65+ MPH during this particular storm, and the shingles are only guaranteed to 60 MPH, therefore there is no way you could claim manufacturing defect anyway. I feel I have a rock solid case against the insurance company and I will be talking to them again tomorrow.
Thanks for all of your help and input. I appreciate the education that I have been given by a great many “strangers”, including yourselves. It takes good-willed people to willingly give their time and knowledge to help others. Thanks again.
By the way, how do I find the qualifications regarding your roofing expertise for those who have responded to this message? It is hard for me to say to the insurance company or anybody else that some person from a messageboard said something and have it carry any weight.
I would recommend that you contact a Professional Reputable Roofing Contractor in your area to substantiate all that was said and have it put in writing on their businness correspondence for you to submit to whoever.
Thanks for the comment. My contractor had put it in writing when he submitted his bid in early April about 2 days after the claim and the insurance company was given a copy of it when the adjustors first arrived 4 days after the claim. I think I’ve gotten to the point where I have a rock-solid case and all the insurance company has to offer on manufacturing defect is one Engineering firm stating that a shingle who’s seal is broken by the wind will completely fly off without exception (i.e. it cannot be left on the roof lifting off). They have never thoroughly inspected the damage, and I have since learned that wind speeds were 65+ MPH in my area and the manufacturer guarantees the shingles at 60 MPH, therefore manufacturing defect is a moot point. I don’t see where they have a leg to stand on. If I am not given funds to repair the entire roof, then I will be contacting a lawyer, who incidentally is a neighbor of mine. I’ve tried my best to settle this without a lawyer, but perhaps that’s the next step I need to take.
You would loggically think after so many years that if a shingle tab has not sealed, there is an obvious problem. Don’t let people pull your leg. Myself and others on this board are here for comments as such to help you along.
Back ground check on the Manufacturer of the roofing material, if that is all possible, would denote what the material is rated for as far as wind speed or velocity. Try to find that out if possible and that might help to substantiate your defense. Roofing tabs can seal properly, but were no where near rated for a 60 mile an hour + rating.
My wife, a former actuary, tells me to tell you to also contact your state’s insurance board (the state dept that regulates insurance in your state). Get them involved. They can help and can get this insurance companies licence to do business in your state (Which state?) revoked.
Give me a call if you have further questions. I (and my wife) will be glad to help.
