I recently did an inspection. When I ran the dishwasher I noticed that the lightsin the kitchen and dining room “flickered”. I also found that the home owner had done some wiring in the garage himself and the garage receptacles had open grounds. I found that the home ( 3bdrm 2 bath) had a 100 amp panel. All the circuits were full and one was double tapped. four of the circuits had double breakers on them. I called for an electrician to evaluate the wiring and the panel I called out a defect on the panel mainly because of the double tap and recommended an upgrade to a 200 amp panel.
I later got a call from the Realtor telling me that I was wrong to call the panel defective.
should I have used term other than defective?
The realtor was completely justified in his criticism.
The “panel” was not the defect, the double tap was. To call out the whole panel as defectivemight have seemed like the easy way out, but it could (and did) come back to bite you.
Also, why are you recommending a service upgrade??? Is that in the SOP for H-I’s in your area?
Without knowing the details 100 amps might have been perfectly fine for that house.
What was the wording you used in the report?
The complaint was that I called the panel defective.
Speedy’s right. With the info you’ve supplied to us, the panel wasn’t defective.
In my opinion, you should have called out the double tap and recommended that the electrical system be evaluated by a licensed electrician. Put in writing that the lights flickered and that there were other concerns. Then stand back and let the electrician do his thing. Maybe nothing was defective, but someone didn’t wire something correctly. Who knows? That would be for the electrician to figure out. You should be very careful calling anything defective, if you are not 100% sure. Also, at my school, I was taught to say it appears to be defective.
Thanks I appreciate the feedback. I realize my mistake, and that I should have worded it differently. I did recommend that an electrician evaluate the system. I did put the other items in the report. The issue was the word defective.
Yeah, that was an unfortunate choice of words. To call the whole panel defective would be akin to calling the whole house defective if you find a sufficient amount of things inside that concern you.
Jack,
Here is a phrase for double tapped breakers:
Two wires are connected to several breaker designed for only one wire. This is known as a “double-tap” and is a defective condition which should be corrected by a qualified electrical contractor.
As far as upgrading the service here is another phrases. I use this one as an advisory comment and not so much as a defect:
The house is supplied with the original 100-amp service, which is considered a minimal service. Some insurance companies will not insure a home with less than a 150-amps.
Hope this helps, there is a thread with some canned phrases that you can customize to your liking. I saw it under (Report Writing) the other day.
How many will not write a policy for 100A? Which ones? Why not? Why 150 and not 200?
What % of homes currently has 100A service? Are none of them insured?
[quote=mhawley]
Jack,
Here is a phrase for double tapped breakers:
Two wires are connected to several breaker designed for only one wire. This is known as a “double-tap” and is a defective condition which should be corrected by a qualified electrical contractor.
As far as upgrading the service here is another phrases. I use this one as an advisory comment and not so much as a defect:
The house is supplied with the original 100-amp service, which is considered a minimal service. Some insurance companies will not insure a home with less than a 150-amps.
Hope this helps, there is a thread with some canned phrases that you can customize to your liking. I saw it under (Report Writing) the other day.
Thanks Matthew I appreciate the helpful feedback.
/quote]
Richard,
There are numerous insurance company underwriters that will not insure a home with a 100-amp service. We do several hundred 4- Point insurance inspection yearly on homes built prior to 1980.
Some will insure them some wont. The same applies for homes with fuses, fuse blocks as a main disconnects and single strand aluminum wiring. Some insurance companies will not insure homes with any of the above and will require repairs or a complete upgrade.
You can probally get that info from the Dept of Insurance Regulations or call some insurance companies. I do not know why some do and some don’t. We advise our customers of the potential problem the may run into when shopping for insurace.
Seems load anaylsis would be in order before a blanket statement would be made.
How many of your clients do you know of that were denied insurance do to 100 amp service?
Since the majority, key word Majority of most Homes and Condos have 100 amp service or less, I would have to agree with Rick on this one.
Wow I could scare alot of people with that.
Perhaps I should switch trades.
:shock: :shock: :shock: 
Richard,
Had one the other day the home was built in 1957 with a 100-amp service. The homeowners just han the entire electrical system upgraded last year. The problem was the new panel was only a 100-amp service as well. The company that ordered the 4-point could not insure them and they had to get insurance somewhere else. This was a small home only around 1400 sq-ft.
Insurance companies have their protocals and** Some** will Not insure homes with 100 amp service. They do not care about load analysis. Modern standards are 150 - 200 amps. I dont work for an insurance company and don’t know why some choose not to insure a 100-amp service.
As far as how many customers with 100-amps that have been denied insurance…I don’t have number and those with a 100-amp service will find someone who will insure them (Some will and some wont). I dont follow up with them afterwards and many times the inspections are ordered by the insurance agents. Many times the insurance agents will find them a company that will insure them or they will go with the state program - Citizens.
I will call a couple of insurance agents we work with on a regular basis and get more specifics and some referances for you to view on Monday.
Cool,
I will do the same.
I am interested to learn more. As Bob said we see loads (pun intended ) of 100A service. I’m sure the sparkys would love to have everyone upgrade!
Insurance companies here Will Not insure a home with less than 100-amp service. Most homes here are 150 - 200 amps. Some of the older ones built in the mid to late 50’s are only a 100-amp service.
I am noy saying they will not get insured by someone, it just may not be the company or rate of choice. A 100-amp service is minimal here.
A 1500 sq/ft home with gas appliances could easily compute to 50a or less even with an A/C load. Requiring 150a service to get insurance would certainly get me down to the insurance regulators and the insurance company would be in court responding to a “show cause” order.
Hi Greg,
to put things into perspective here, the reason that the insurers don’t like smaller supplies is that they are using that (and other) information as indicative of overall system age and condition. For example if they see a 100amp supply and a fuse panel they make the (probably correct) assumption that the supply and distribution has not been upgraded in 40odd years.
Regards
Gerry