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  #1  
Old 12/11/17, 7:28 PM
Marisha Little Marisha Little is offline
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Default Building a home...building running oven and cooktop off same wire/50A breaker?

We are building a home in FL and have gone through so many issues so far. The latest is the fast the they wired a 12/2 110v outlet for our cooktop. We brought it up and the solution now is to run both the cooktop and double oven off the same wire/breaker. I do NOT want this to be a situation where I can only run one oven and 2 burners without popping the breaker. Seems to me like the cheap and easy way for the builder/electrician to get out of pulling a new wire? Here are our appliances:

GE-PT7550SFSS

GE-PHP9036SJSS

Cooktop requires a 50A circuit and the oven a 40A... so why can we combine them on a single 50A??
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  #2  
Old 12/11/17, 11:46 PM
Larry Kage, CMI Larry Kage, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Building a home...building running oven and cooktop off same wire/50A breaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlittle View Post
We are building a home in FL and have gone through so many issues so far. The latest is the fast the they wired a 12/2 110v outlet for our cooktop. We brought it up and the solution now is to run both the cooktop and double oven off the same wire/breaker. I do NOT want this to be a situation where I can only run one oven and 2 burners without popping the breaker. Seems to me like the cheap and easy way for the builder/electrician to get out of pulling a new wire? Here are our appliances:

GE-PT7550SFSS

GE-PHP9036SJSS

Cooktop requires a 50A circuit and the oven a 40A... so why can we combine them on a single 50A??

I'm thinking that a real qualified electrician is needed...

GE Profile™ Series 30" Built-In Double Wall Oven with Convection | PT7550SFSS | GE Appliances

GE Profile™ Series 36" Built-In Touch Control Induction Cooktop | PHP9036SJSS | GE Appliances




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The above post represents my personal opinion.
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  #3  
Old 12/11/17, 11:58 PM
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Chuck Evans Chuck Evans is online now
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Default Re: Building a home...building running oven and cooktop off same wire/50A breaker?

You have every reason to be concerned with that plan.

The installation instructions for your oven specify
Quote:
ELECTRICAL REQUIREMENTS (CONT.)
This appliance must be supplied with the proper voltage and frequency and connected to an individual, properly grounded branch circuit, protected by a circuit breaker or fuse. See the rating plate located on the oven frame to determine the rating of the product...
The oven requires a dedicated circuit.

Your cooktop installation instruction manual specifies
Quote:
This appliance must be supplied with the proper voltage and frequency and connected to an individual, properly grounded branch circuit, protected by a circuit breaker or time delay fuse, as noted on the nameplate...
The cooktop requires a dedicated circuit.

Tell your builder to install the units in compliance with the manufacturer's instructions and bring in a competent electrician to perform the wiring.



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  #4  
Old 12/12/17, 5:48 AM
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Robert Meier Robert Meier is online now
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Default Re: Building a home...building running oven and cooktop off same wire/50A breaker?

You need someone who is familiar with Table 220.55 in the NEC to properly perform the calculations for the branch circuit sizing of these units using the KW ratings.
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  #5  
Old 12/12/17, 6:03 PM
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Paul Lesieur Paul Lesieur is online now
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Default Re: Building a home...building running oven and cooktop off same wire/50A breaker?

I have 2 ovens with two dedicated circuits in my kitchen. I would be afraid of more than popping a breaker with the setup you describe.

I would also wonder what else may be questionable?
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  #6  
Old 12/12/17, 6:58 PM
Marisha Little Marisha Little is offline
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Default Re: Building a home...building running oven and cooktop off same wire/50A breaker?

I called an inspector today and describe to him some of the things that have been happening over the last number of months and he seemed pretty appalled. He's going to do the inspection on Monday and I honestly hope there isn't anything else but that he is just ammunition for them to stop questioning my questioning but I honestly feel like we're going to uncover all kinds of issues. Why my wife and I just want the house done and to move in we're really worried that there are underlying issues or substandard work that we paid for when we deserve more.
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  #7  
Old 12/12/17, 8:58 PM
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Default Re: Building a home...building running oven and cooktop off same wire/50A breaker?

They should both be on their own circuits. The NEC does allow them to be on the same circuit (not a 50 amp circuit) but that installation would be impractical.
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  #8  
Old 12/12/17, 9:55 PM
Larry Kage, CMI Larry Kage, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Building a home...building running oven and cooktop off same wire/50A breaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlittle View Post
I called an inspector today and describe to him some of the things that have been happening over the last number of months and he seemed pretty appalled. He's going to do the inspection on Monday and I honestly hope there isn't anything else but that he is just ammunition for them to stop questioning my questioning but I honestly feel like we're going to uncover all kinds of issues. Why my wife and I just want the house done and to move in we're really worried that there are underlying issues or substandard work that we paid for when we deserve more.
Smart decision, it sounds like he is qualified...good luck!




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State Licensed Builder since 1973
InterNACHI Lifetime Member
~retired~

The above post represents my personal opinion.
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  #9  
Old 12/12/17, 10:37 PM
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Default Re: Building a home...building running oven and cooktop off same wire/50A breaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlittle View Post
I called an inspector today and describe to him some of the things that have been happening over the last number of months and he seemed pretty appalled. He's going to do the inspection on Monday and I honestly hope there isn't anything else but that he is just ammunition for them to stop questioning my questioning but I honestly feel like we're going to uncover all kinds of issues. Why my wife and I just want the house done and to move in we're really worried that there are underlying issues or substandard work that we paid for when we deserve more.

Did you call a code inspector? HI's are great but are often not permitted by their SOP's to cite specific codes which could make it difficult to get code violations fixed.

Good luck and let us know how it works out.
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  #10  
Old 12/14/17, 6:49 PM
Marisha Little Marisha Little is offline
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Default Re: Building a home...building running oven and cooktop off same wire/50A breaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Meier View Post
Did you call a code inspector? HI's are great but are often not permitted by their SOP's to cite specific codes which could make it difficult to get code violations fixed.

Good luck and let us know how it works out.
UPDATE - Building is insisting on running both the oven and cooktop on a single 50 AMP circuit. We asked earlier this week and told him it needed an additional wire run. Right now it would be easy to run the circuit as there is no carpet in. Carpet goes in at 7AM tomorrow and builder is still pressing with that as well. I have been looking for the NEC and am trying to spell out to my builder that this will not work. He is fine accepting the fact that we wire both together and will never be able to use them to full capacity. The inspector comes Monday but I am trying to stop this before they install carpet then rip it up again.

Is there anything out there I can show to him? Is there math I can show him that will demonstrate how both will NOT work on the same circuit?

Here are the appliances again:

GE-PT7550SFSS
GE-PHP9036SJSS
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  #11  
Old 12/15/17, 1:06 PM
Jim Port Jim Port is online now
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Default Re: Building a home...building running oven and cooktop off same wire/50A breaker?

The electrical code 43117843 items to be installed in the manner specified by the manufacturer instructions. They call for individual circuits so they need to install two circuits. The reference would be 110.3(B).
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  #12  
Old 12/15/17, 2:51 PM
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Chuck Evans Chuck Evans is online now
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Default Re: Building a home...building running oven and cooktop off same wire/50A breaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlittle View Post
UPDATE - Building is insisting on running both the oven and cooktop on a single 50 AMP circuit. We asked earlier this week and told him it needed an additional wire run. Right now it would be easy to run the circuit as there is no carpet in. Carpet goes in at 7AM tomorrow and builder is still pressing with that as well. I have been looking for the NEC and am trying to spell out to my builder that this will not work. He is fine accepting the fact that we wire both together and will never be able to use them to full capacity. The inspector comes Monday but I am trying to stop this before they install carpet then rip it up again.

Is there anything out there I can show to him? Is there math I can show him that will demonstrate how both will NOT work on the same circuit?

Here are the appliances again:

GE-PT7550SFSS
GE-PHP9036SJSS
Both installation manuals specify that they each require individual circuits. These are both UL listed appliances. The prevailing code NEC specifies that manufacturer installation specifications must be followed for UL listed appliances. Tell your builder that if he violates this that you will call the code enforcement/building inspection office for their opinion and discuss the electrician with the state licensing agency. Request a statement signed by both the builder and electrician with license numbers describing what they intend to do. This usually gets them to rethink thier position.

Please keep us posted.



Chuck Evans (TREC #7657)
Level III Infraspection Institute Certified Infrared Thermographer (#8402)
HomeCert Houston Home Inspections & Thermal Inspections Find us on Facebook
TheWoodlandsHomeInspection.com


Houston, TX
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The InterNACHI Awards Committee is the final authority of issuance of any award the committee offers.
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  #13  
Old 12/15/17, 4:29 PM
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Default Re: Building a home...building running oven and cooktop off same wire/50A breaker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlittle View Post
Is there anything out there I can show to him? Is there math I can show him that will demonstrate how both will NOT work on the same circuit?
The NEC may allow these two types of units on a single circuit (calculated according to Table 220.55) however the manufacturer's instructions that are part of the listing of the appliance require an individual branch circuit for each and that would override any less restrictive NEC requirement.

Quote:
2014 NEC:
110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use
of Equipment.
(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.
Quote:
2014 NEC
Article 100:
Branch Circuit, Individual. A branch circuit that supplies
only one utilization equipment
Quote:
Installation Instructions 27” & 30” Electric Built-In Wall Ovens

ELECTRICAL REQUIREMENTS (CONT.)
This appliance must be supplied with the proper voltage and frequency and connected to an individual,
properly grounded branch circuit, protected by a circuit breaker or fuse. See the rating plate located on the
oven frame to determine the rating of the product.
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