Go Back   InterNACHI Inspection Forum > >

Notices

Electrical Inspections Contains discussions about electrical systems. This includes receptacles, panels, wiring, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 4/24/06, 5:56 PM
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI's Avatar
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI Marcel R. Cyr, CMI is offline
Certified Master Inspector ®
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Winslow, ME
Posts: 31,270
Default Emergency Lighting (commercial)

Need help from some of you guys on this one.

I am currently building a 9,000 s.f. Visitor'[s Center for the Coastal Maine Botanical Gardens in Boothbay Harbor, Maine.

The electrical Contractor is installing emergency down lighting in a lot of areas that are designated to be emergency lighting. The down lighting came with a rough in ICC can and a remote ballast with a 2' whip on each end. One end goes in the fixture and the other end goes to a test button and a light.
Because it was some what intrusive for aesthics, my boss requested it be mounted up in the Attic space. Since it appears that it is suppose to be mounted in a box adjacent to the fixture and was mounted on a 2"x4" pedestal in the attic, which is only accessible through a 2'x2' access with an extension ladder.

My question, I guess, is should the test button and light indicator have to be visible near the fixture it'self? Can the test button be installed in the attic that is not quite readily accessible and not have the lamp visible for testing.

Maybe this is a question for Joe T., but figured I start here.

Thanks in advance.

Marcel
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 4/24/06, 7:25 PM
Ben D. Kelly's Avatar
Ben D. Kelly Ben D. Kelly is offline
Community Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Rives, TN
Posts: 1,719
Please Note: bkelly1 is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Emergency Lighting (commercial)

Uh, ya the test button needs to be accessible beside the fixture.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 4/24/06, 7:28 PM
Ben D. Kelly's Avatar
Ben D. Kelly Ben D. Kelly is offline
Community Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Rives, TN
Posts: 1,719
Please Note: bkelly1 is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Emergency Lighting (commercial)

The fixture "papers" will also probably say they need to be readily accessible and in view of the fixture. The electrical inspector may also ask where they are at.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 4/24/06, 7:35 PM
Larry Kage, CMI's Avatar
Larry Kage, CMI Larry Kage, CMI is offline
Certified Master Inspector ®
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NW, MI
Posts: 18,643
Default Re: Emergency Lighting (commercial)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkelly1
Uh, ya the test button needs to be accessible beside the fixture.
You translated that from Joe's post? Or did you just know it?

Joe, I don't see where your post answers Marcel's question.

Can you help me out here?...maybe bold the section or something?

Maybe I'm just blind.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 4/24/06, 8:09 PM
Ben D. Kelly's Avatar
Ben D. Kelly Ben D. Kelly is offline
Community Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Rives, TN
Posts: 1,719
Please Note: bkelly1 is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Emergency Lighting (commercial)

I am still cyphering on the other post. lol
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 4/24/06, 8:12 PM
Michael D. Bledsoe Michael D. Bledsoe is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Morrow, GA
Posts: 58
Default Re: Emergency Lighting (commercial)

Here is some info from NFPA

SECTION 5-9
EMERGENCY LIGHTING


5-9.1 General.
5-9.1.1 Emergency lighting facilities for means of egress shall be provided in accordance with this section for every building or structure where required in Chapters 8 through 30. For the purposes of this requirement, exit access shall include only designated stairs, aisles, corridors, ramps, escalators, and passageways leading to an exit.
5-9.1.2 Where maintenance of illumination depends upon changing from one energy source to another, there shall be no appreciable interruption of illumination during the changeover.
5-9.2 Performance of System.
5-9.2.1* Emergency illumination shall be provided for a period of 1-1/2 hours in the event of failure of normal lighting. Emergency lighting facilities shall be arranged to provide initial illumination that is no less than an average of 1 footcandle (10 lx) and a minimum at any point of .1 footcandle (1 lx) measured along the path of egress at floor level. Illumination levels may decline to .6 footcandle (6 lx) average and a minimum at any point of .06 footcandle (.6 lx) at the end of the emergency illumination lighting time duration. A maximum to minimum illumination uniformity ratio of 40 to 1 shall not be exceeded.
5-9.2.2* The emergency lighting system shall be so arranged as to provide the required illumination automatically in the event of any interruption of normal lighting, such as any failure of public utility or other outside electrical power supply, opening of a circuit breaker or fuse, or any manual act(s), including accidental opening of a switch controlling normal lighting facilities.
5-9.2.4 Battery operated emergency lights shall use only reliable types of rechargeable batteries provided with suitable facilities for maintaining them in properly charged condition. Batteries used in such lights or units shall be approved for their intended use and shall comply with NFPA 70, National Electrical Code.®
5-9.2.5 The emergency lighting system shall be either continuously in operation or capable of repeated automatic operation without manual intervention.
5-9.3 Testing and Maintenance (See Section 31-1) 31-1.3.1 Whenever or wherever any device, equipment, [or] system...is required for compliance with the provisions of this Code, such device, equipment, [or] system...shall thereafter be permanently maintained unless the Code exempts such maintenance.

31-1.3.4 Any equipment requiring test or periodic operation to assure its maintenance shall be tested or operated as specified elsewhere in this Code or as directed by the authority having jurisdiction.
31-1.3.5 Systems shall be under the supervision of a responsible person who shall ensure that proper tests are made at specified intervals and have general charge of all alterations and additions.
31-1.3.7 Periodic Testing of Emergency Lighting Equipment.
A functional test shall be conducted on every required emergency lighting system at 30-day intervals for a minimum of 30 seconds. An annual test shall be conducted for the 1-1/2 hour duration. Equipment shall be fully operational for the duration of the test. Written records of testing shall be kept by the owner for inspection by the authority having jurisdiction.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 4/24/06, 8:17 PM
Larry Kage, CMI's Avatar
Larry Kage, CMI Larry Kage, CMI is offline
Certified Master Inspector ®
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NW, MI
Posts: 18,643
Default Re: Emergency Lighting (commercial)

Oh, I see Joe's post is gone...maybe it was a secret code.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 4/24/06, 9:52 PM
Paul W. Abernathy's Avatar
Paul W. Abernathy Paul W. Abernathy is offline
Certified Master Inspector ®
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 9,708
Send a message via Skype™ to pabernathy
Default Re: Emergency Lighting (commercial)

When we do emergency lighting and egress lighting and signage we have a circuit dedicated to the emergency illumination.

NEC is clear on the requirement for testing and would have to be ready available for testing as shown in Art 700.4 on the testing prospect...not sure the AHJ could test it if in the attic area.....he most certainly wont bring his ladder with him....how about the fire marshall????

Also emergency systems need a Visual or Audible to notify when it is not functioning properly...Art 700.7.....since the fixture is designed as such it would be practicle to mount the test beside the fixture itself...

Can you get me the specs on the lights......if I can see that I could tell you more.....

Is your electrical contractor dedicating a circuit to this...?



Paul W. Abernathy, CMECP®
NFPA 70 (NEC®) Code Panel Member on #5 and #17
Founder of the Certified Master Electrical Code Professional® Program
CMECP® Website - www.MyCMECP.com
Website - http://www.masterthenec.com
Twitter - https://twitter.com/MasterTheNEC
Facebook -https://www.facebook.com/masterthenec/
Spreaker PodCasts - https://www.spreaker.com/show/master-the-necs-tracks


Disclaimer - All my posts on this forum represent Electrical Code Academy, Inc.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 4/24/06, 10:51 PM
Jay Moge's Avatar
Jay Moge Jay Moge is offline
Active Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Derry New Hampshire
Posts: 759
Please Note: Jay Moge is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Emergency Lighting (commercial)

I agree. emergancy lighting requeres periodic maintenance which includes testing the lights themselvs. pushing the test button is the first step, and if it's in the attic, then it's not "testable". at least that's what the fire marshals report will say and any (if any) annual inspections. the property i run in Mass. requires annual tests of all fire/emergency and egress systems, and as the head of the maintenance dept. for the property, i get a "hit list" every year of deficiancies i must repair. replacing the emergency light that are burnt out is always on there. i don't think the marshal (or his boys) would want to climb a ladder into a space that isn't on fire. but that's here, not sure of maine.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 4/25/06, 6:24 PM
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI's Avatar
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI Marcel R. Cyr, CMI is offline
Certified Master Inspector ®
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Winslow, ME
Posts: 31,270
Default Re: Emergency Lighting (commercial)

First of all, I would like to thank everyone in doing the leg work on helping me out on this topic. As usual thanks to this board forum, everyone can help others.

The information you supplied me that I accessed this morning was of great help.

Discussed the situation with the Electrical Foreman. I did receive a comment from, I believe Joe T., and somehow found it's way throught the backdoor of my e-mail. I thought I would print it out for everyone to see. Hope noone minds.

***************
700.12(F) Unit Equipment Individual unit equipment for emergency illumination shall consist of the following:
(1) A rechargeable battery
(2) A battery charging means
(3) Provisions for one or more lamps mounted on the equipment, or shall be permitted to have terminals for remote lamps, or both
(4) A relaying device arranged to energize the lamps automatically upon failure of the supply to the unit equipment
The batteries shall be of suitable rating and capacity to supply and maintain at not less than 87 1/ 2 percent of the nominal battery voltage for the total lamp load associated with the unit for a period of at least 1 1/ 2 hours, or the unit equipment shall supply and maintain not less than 60 percent of the initial emergency illumination for a period of at least 1 1/ 2 hours. Storage batteries, whether of the acid or alkali type, shall be designed and constructed to meet the requirements of emergency service.
Unit equipment shall be permanently fixed in place (i.e., not portable) and shall have all wiring to each unit installed in accordance with the requirements of any of the wiring methods in Chapter 3. Flexible cord-and-plug connection shall be permitted, provided that the cord does not exceed 900 mm (3 ft) in length. The branch circuit feeding the unit equipment shall be the same branch circuit as that serving the normal lighting in the area and connected ahead of any local switches. The branch circuit that feeds unit equipment shall be clearly identified at the distribution panel. Emergency luminaires (illumination fixtures) that obtain power from a unit equipment and are not part of the unit equipment shall be wired to the unit equipment as required by 700.9 and by one of the wiring methods of Chapter 3.
Exception: In a separate and uninterrupted area supplied by a minimum of three normal lighting circuits, a separate branch circuit for unit equipment shall be permitted if it originates from the same panelboard as that of the normal lighting circuits and is provided with a lock-on feature.
***************

Compliance to what exists complies to most of this I believe.
I believe we are in compliance with everything said, except that is it readily accessible?
The light fixtures are all on battery back up and dedicated circuits, but to test them, you have to go in the attic and see if the light is on indicating battery charging.
Attic is accessible through a 2'x2' ceiling access where you need a 12' ladder on one, and a 16'extension ladder on the other. Seeing that there are five AHU in the attic that will need periodic checks for filters, greasing, belts, etc., would you think that testing the emergency lights at this time would be prudent?

Not quite readily accessible, but once you get your fat #ss up there, it is accessible ha. ha..

Paul A.

Thanks for the respose:

The Recessed Downlighting 1143 Lytecaster by Lightolier and IC flourescent comes with remote ballast installation kit. IS:1102FEM if that means anything.
Thanks.

Michael B.

Thanks for the information, and curious as to where or what code you refered too in the NFPA?
I have access to all these 2000 codes, but could not find it. Was it from the NFPA 5000?
Thanks.

I have a meeting tomorrow for the project and will bring this documentation with me and let him make the decision. Then when the State Electrical Inspector comes in for the Final, we will go from there I guess.

Thanks to everyone as usual.
Sorry this ended up so long and Thank you Joe T. for your part.

Marcel

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 4/25/06, 7:38 PM
Ben D. Kelly's Avatar
Ben D. Kelly Ben D. Kelly is offline
Community Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Rives, TN
Posts: 1,719
Please Note: bkelly1 is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Emergency Lighting (commercial)

I believe the indication light on the remote switch has to be seen from the ground. To indicate if the battery is not charging. That is my story and I am sticking to it.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 4/25/06, 7:55 PM
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI's Avatar
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI Marcel R. Cyr, CMI is offline
Certified Master Inspector ®
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Winslow, ME
Posts: 31,270
Default Re: Emergency Lighting (commercial)

Ben;
I totally agree with you, I am only trying to gather as many opinions that I can on this subject due the fact it is new in this commercial market up here and offensive looking to these Architects that don't know what the hell their Consultants are specifying.
Meeting tomorrow and will advise of how it went once I show my boss, that what he requested to please the Architect is not quite right.

Thanks.

Marcel
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 4/26/06, 4:09 PM
Michael D. Bledsoe Michael D. Bledsoe is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Morrow, GA
Posts: 58
Default Re: Emergency Lighting (commercial)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcyr
Michael B.

Thanks for the information, and curious as to where or what code you refered too in the NFPA?
I have access to all these 2000 codes, but could not find it. Was it from the NFPA 5000?
Thanks.
NFPA 101 Life Safety Code. Glad you got the answers to your question.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 4/26/06, 6:03 PM
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI's Avatar
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI Marcel R. Cyr, CMI is offline
Certified Master Inspector ®
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Winslow, ME
Posts: 31,270
Default Re: Emergency Lighting (commercial)

Thanks,

Marcel
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 4/30/06, 5:34 PM
Wilfred O. Hellner Wilfred O. Hellner is offline
Community Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Longwood, FL
Posts: 125
Send a message via AIM to whellner
Please Note: whellner is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Emergency Lighting (commercial)

Yes it has to be accessible!!!!!! I work in a health care facility . NFPA101 will tell you. They also have to be tested on a monthly basis and documented as such.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Commercial Real Estate Doing Better than Housing jbushart Miscellaneous Discussion for Inspectors 3 10/23/07 9:34 AM
Commercial Building & Thermal Imaging Course Coming to New Hampshire fcarrio Commercial Inspections / CCPIA 1 8/13/07 12:47 AM
Article on Commercial and Residential Inspections and Assessment mcyr Commercial Inspections / CCPIA 2 8/6/07 1:26 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 6:04 AM.
no new posts