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  #1  
Old 10/9/18, 8:14 PM
Joshua LeBeau's Avatar
Joshua LeBeau Joshua LeBeau is online now
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Default GFCI wording Defect - please Review

Hi All,
Can you guys review this wording of my GFCI. I've gathered this information from various Electrical Forums and put this together.

A Realtor is calling me out on it. EVERY electrician has told me GFCI on a Circuit breaker more than protects your equipment: I think this is unwarranted fear mongering

I want to present accurate information.

Thanks in advance
------------------------------------------------
Ungrounded 3-prong outlets or 2-prong outlets are present.

Two prong outlets are not grounded, which can leave you unprotected from stray currents and result in electrocution or a power surge through sensitive electronics, often destroying them in the process.
Ungrounded outlets sometimes have 3-prongs but are wired without the ground wire (see picture). The ground wire may not be attached to the outlet or the ground wire may not exist.

Three prong outlets feature a third grounding wire, which gives energy surges somewhere to go other than into your body or electrical equipment.

Ungrounded outlets increase the chance of:

Electrical fire. Without the ground present, errors that occur with your outlet may cause arcing, sparks and electrical charge that can spawn fire along walls, or on nearby furniture and fixtures.

Health hazard. Ungrounded outlets present a very real risk of shock to persons operating the electronics and appliances plugged into the outlet.

Property loss. Ungrounded outlets can short out equipment, rendering your favorite appliances and tools worthless.


Messy wiring. In many older homes, its not uncommon to find a mixture of grounded and ungrounded outlets. This indicates piecemeal electrical work has been done in the past, and can be a clear sign of serious electrical problems, or can cause many in the future.

Warranty reasons
. Many of our essential appliances, such as refrigerators, air conditioning units, washers and dryers must have a grounded connection in order for the warranty to be valid. If your appliance is plugged into an ungrounded outlet, then you have essentially voided your warranty.

Fixes:

Install ground-fault circuit interrupters (GFCIs).

These can be installed upstream or at the receptacle itself. GFCIs are an accepted replacement because they will protect against electric shocks even in the absence of grounding, but they may not protect the powered appliance. Also, GFCI-protected ungrounded receptacles may not work effectively with surge protectors. Ungrounded GFCI-protected receptacles should be identified with labels that come with the new receptacles that state: No Equipment Ground.

Rewire:

Hire a licensed electrician to remove the existing ungrounded wire and replace it with current code standards wiring. This will ensure that you and your personal property is safe.



Recommend repair or replacement by a licensed electrician.




Joshua & Michelle LeBeau
www.HomeInspectionsbyJML.com
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  #2  
Old 10/9/18, 8:39 PM
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Default Re: GFCI wording Defect - please Review

2 prong outlets are grounded....the neutral is the path to ground. As I recall, lightening is why we have a dedicated grounding conductor today.



“The things that will destroy America are peace at any price,
prosperity at any cost, safety first instead of duty first,
the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.”
T. Roosevelt


Joe Funderburk, CBO, CMI
Alpha & Omega Home Inspections, LLC
Inspecting Upstate SC & Charlotte Metro, NC
Angie's List Super Award Winner 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010.
Ph: 704-351-1776
www.aohomeinspection.com


Last edited by jfunderburk; 10/9/18 at 9:11 PM..
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  #3  
Old 10/9/18, 8:40 PM
Joe Funderburk, CMI's Avatar
Joe Funderburk, CMI Joe Funderburk, CMI is offline
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Default Re: GFCI wording Defect - please Review

Your narrative is too busy and scary IMO. Did you know you can buy 2 prong outlets?



“The things that will destroy America are peace at any price,
prosperity at any cost, safety first instead of duty first,
the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.”
T. Roosevelt


Joe Funderburk, CBO, CMI
Alpha & Omega Home Inspections, LLC
Inspecting Upstate SC & Charlotte Metro, NC
Angie's List Super Award Winner 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010.
Ph: 704-351-1776
www.aohomeinspection.com

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  #4  
Old 10/9/18, 8:43 PM
Joe Funderburk, CMI's Avatar
Joe Funderburk, CMI Joe Funderburk, CMI is offline
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Default Re: GFCI wording Defect - please Review

Here's what I say:

"The house is wired with many 2-prong receptacles lacking an equipment ground. While common years ago and still acceptable today, the lack of an equipment grounding conductor will limit the use of certain appliances such as refrigerators, washing machines, computers, etc. that require a dedicated ground. Dedicated circuits may have to be installed to properly and safely use such appliances. You should consult with a licensed electrician about the limitations of this older wiring system and the options, such as GFCI installation, for safe use of equipment. Note that a GFCI protects you, but does not protect the equipment from potential damage caused by a short circuit."



“The things that will destroy America are peace at any price,
prosperity at any cost, safety first instead of duty first,
the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.”
T. Roosevelt


Joe Funderburk, CBO, CMI
Alpha & Omega Home Inspections, LLC
Inspecting Upstate SC & Charlotte Metro, NC
Angie's List Super Award Winner 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010.
Ph: 704-351-1776
www.aohomeinspection.com


Last edited by jfunderburk; 10/9/18 at 9:09 PM..
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  #5  
Old 10/9/18, 8:59 PM
Joshua LeBeau's Avatar
Joshua LeBeau Joshua LeBeau is online now
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Default Re: GFCI wording Defect - please Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfunderburk View Post
Your narrative is too busy and scary IMO. Did you know you can buy 2 prong outlets?
I have been mulling the length of the description as well.

I knew you could by 2 prong outlets, but I have not seen any with a grounding screw (Home Depot). Unless the box is metal and the ground wire is attached to that. Most of my homes are old 2 wire cloth wires.

Can i "borrow" your narrative?

One more question. Is what I said 'factual'?




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  #6  
Old 10/9/18, 9:05 PM
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Joe Funderburk, CMI Joe Funderburk, CMI is offline
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Default Re: GFCI wording Defect - please Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcooke View Post
some is much is not if a string like this was any advantage it would have been done before many years and many electricians have not done this .
Roy, have you been drinking tonight?



“The things that will destroy America are peace at any price,
prosperity at any cost, safety first instead of duty first,
the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.”
T. Roosevelt


Joe Funderburk, CBO, CMI
Alpha & Omega Home Inspections, LLC
Inspecting Upstate SC & Charlotte Metro, NC
Angie's List Super Award Winner 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010.
Ph: 704-351-1776
www.aohomeinspection.com

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  #7  
Old 10/9/18, 9:06 PM
Joshua LeBeau's Avatar
Joshua LeBeau Joshua LeBeau is online now
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Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 91
Default Re: GFCI wording Defect - please Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfunderburk View Post
Roy, have you been drinking tonight?
Ditto!




Joshua & Michelle LeBeau
www.HomeInspectionsbyJML.com
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  #8  
Old 10/9/18, 9:08 PM
Joe Funderburk, CMI's Avatar
Joe Funderburk, CMI Joe Funderburk, CMI is offline
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Default Re: GFCI wording Defect - please Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlebeau2 View Post
Can i "borrow" your narrative?
Yes. I have variations on it for "wired with some", all, and nearly all...

I don't have time to get into it any more tonight....time to eat.

Other's may have better narratives.



“The things that will destroy America are peace at any price,
prosperity at any cost, safety first instead of duty first,
the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.”
T. Roosevelt


Joe Funderburk, CBO, CMI
Alpha & Omega Home Inspections, LLC
Inspecting Upstate SC & Charlotte Metro, NC
Angie's List Super Award Winner 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010.
Ph: 704-351-1776
www.aohomeinspection.com

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10/9/18, 9:15 PM
Joshua LeBeau's Avatar
Joshua LeBeau Joshua LeBeau is online now
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 91
Default Re: GFCI wording Defect - please Review

Thanks Joe! Appreciate it!




Joshua & Michelle LeBeau
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  #10  
Old 10/9/18, 9:28 PM
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Robert Meier Robert Meier is online now
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Default Re: GFCI wording Defect - please Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlebeau2 View Post
Hi All,
Can you guys review this wording of my GFCI. I've gathered this information from various Electrical Forums and put this together.

A Realtor is calling me out on it. EVERY electrician has told me GFCI on a Circuit breaker more than protects your equipment: I think this is unwarranted fear mongering

I want to present accurate information.

Thanks in advance
------------------------------------------------
Ungrounded 3-prong outlets or 2-prong outlets are present.

Two prong outlets are not grounded, which can leave you unprotected from stray currents and result in electrocution or a power surge through sensitive electronics, often destroying them in the process.
Ungrounded outlets sometimes have 3-prongs but are wired without the ground wire (see picture). The ground wire may not be attached to the outlet or the ground wire may not exist.

Three prong outlets feature a third grounding wire, which gives energy surges somewhere to go other than into your body or electrical equipment.

Ungrounded outlets increase the chance of:

Electrical fire. Without the ground present, errors that occur with your outlet may cause arcing, sparks and electrical charge that can spawn fire along walls, or on nearby furniture and fixtures.

Health hazard. Ungrounded outlets present a very real risk of shock to persons operating the electronics and appliances plugged into the outlet.

Property loss. Ungrounded outlets can short out equipment, rendering your favorite appliances and tools worthless.


Messy wiring. In many older homes, its not uncommon to find a mixture of grounded and ungrounded outlets. This indicates piecemeal electrical work has been done in the past, and can be a clear sign of serious electrical problems, or can cause many in the future.

Warranty reasons
. Many of our essential appliances, such as refrigerators, air conditioning units, washers and dryers must have a grounded connection in order for the warranty to be valid. If your appliance is plugged into an ungrounded outlet, then you have essentially voided your warranty.

Fixes:

Install ground-fault circuit interrupters (GFCIs).

These can be installed upstream or at the receptacle itself. GFCIs are an accepted replacement because they will protect against electric shocks even in the absence of grounding, but they may not protect the powered appliance. Also, GFCI-protected ungrounded receptacles may not work effectively with surge protectors. Ungrounded GFCI-protected receptacles should be identified with labels that come with the new receptacles that state: No Equipment Ground.

Rewire:

Hire a licensed electrician to remove the existing ungrounded wire and replace it with current code standards wiring. This will ensure that you and your personal property is safe.


Recommend repair or replacement by a licensed electrician.

My 2 cents, replace the word outlet with receptacle or receptacle outlet and ground wire with equipment grounding conductor (EGC).


As mentioned GFCI protection of 2 wire circuits that do not contain an EGC and are ungrounded will still protect someone from getting a lethal shock but may not protect equipment that requires a grounded 3 prong receptacle that is connected to an EGC.
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  #11  
Old 10/11/18, 8:17 PM
Jim Port Jim Port is online now
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Default Re: GFCI wording Defect - please Review

Sending surges into your body? Ungrounded receptacles shorting out equipment?

Sounds alarmist.
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