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  #16  
Old 8/28/18, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: NACHI's Electrical SOP is outdated

To test the new smoke detectors that are connected to Nest, you have to have the owner's phone or tablet connected to Nest Protect, and you have to have access to that phone or tablet. That's what this video doesn't tell you: YouTube . Here is how fancy the new ones are getting: YouTube
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  #17  
Old 8/28/18, 11:19 PM
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Default Re: NACHI's Electrical SOP is outdated

FABI SOP is stricker than most.




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  #18  
Old 8/28/18, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: NACHI's Electrical SOP is outdated

FABI's SOP is worded oddly on the matter (probably should have been under their "describe" section rather than their "inspect" section, but I understand what they were trying to say to do.

Last edited by gromicko; 8/28/18 at 11:32 PM..
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  #19  
Old 8/28/18, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: NACHI's Electrical SOP is outdated

Some of the new smart home systems shut the furnace off in a fire. But it's unclear to me if it shuts the furnace off during a test. And if it doesn't kill the furnace during a test, would that be considered a failed test or simply a system that is smart enough to know it's only a test?
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  #20  
Old 8/29/18, 4:46 AM
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Default Re: NACHI's Electrical SOP is outdated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Just note that there is a difference between smoke alarms and smoke detectors.

Yup, people get this one wrong every day.
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  #21  
Old 8/29/18, 8:04 AM
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Default Re: NACHI's Electrical SOP is outdated

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfetty View Post
We used to hit the test buttons... after the second call to the fire department and visit of the fire engine we stopped.
Sure seems like a home inspector with more than a weeks worth of experience should be able to distinguish builder grade smoke alarms from those connected to a security system. Hint: the ones on the security system are found only in the hallways 99% of the time. Frequently right beside the standard alarm.



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  #22  
Old 8/29/18, 8:08 AM
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Default Re: NACHI's Electrical SOP is outdated

What is the difference between smoke alarms and smoke detectors?

Smoke alarms are self-contained, single or multiple-station smoke-sensing devices typically found in homes.
Smoke detectors are smoke-sensing devices that are not self-contained. They operate as an interconnected system and are sometimes monitored remotely. Smoke detectors are commonly found in hotels, hospitals and in other commercial or industrial applications.
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  #23  
Old 8/29/18, 10:17 AM
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Default Re: NACHI's Electrical SOP is outdated

Quote:
Hint: the ones on the security system are found only in the hallways 99% of the time.
Yep, and that isn't going to do you a lot of good in a fire when your bedroom door is closed.
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  #24  
Old 8/29/18, 10:35 PM
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Default Re: NACHI's Electrical SOP is outdated

I have disclaimers in my report right up front in big bold red letters that I do not test smoke or CO2 units because it is the responsibility of the current owner to call the local fire department and have them come out and inspect each unit and to tell the home owner where they should be placed. This is mandatory for the Certificate of Occupancy and it is part of the closing.

No CoO, no deal.




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  #25  
Old 8/30/18, 6:03 PM
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Default Re: NACHI's Electrical SOP is outdated

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoldenberg View Post
Florida requires stand alone "smoke detectors" be tested.
I interpret this as not required if they are a component of a total alarm system.

61-30.803 Standards of Practice, Electrical Systems.
(1) Electrical systems and components include the following:
(a) Service entrance conductors, drip loop, cables, and raceways;
(b) Main service equipment and main disconnects;
(c) Service grounding;
(d) Interior components of main service panels and sub panels;
(e) Conductors;
(f) Over current protection devices;
(g) Readily accessible installed lighting fixtures, switches, and receptacles;
(h) Ground fault circuit interrupters;
(i) Amperage and voltage rating of electrical service;
(j) Main disconnect(s);
(k) Methods or types of wiring;
(l) Smoke detectors;
(m) Carbon monoxide detectors;
(n) Arc fault circuit interrupters.
(2) The inspector shall inspect all of the visible and readily accessible electrical systems and components.
(3) The inspector is not required to inspect:
(a) Remote control devices;
(b) Security alarm systems and components;
(c) Low voltage wiring, systems and components, ancillary wiring and systems and components not a part of the primary electrical power distribution system;
(d) Generators, photovoltaic solar collectors or battery or electrical storage devices and associated equipment.
(4) The inspector is not required to:
(a) Measure amperage, voltage or impedance;
(b) Perform a load calculation;
(c) Insert any tool, probe, or device into any electrical component;
(d) Determine the accuracy of circuit labeling.
Do they know that Smoke Detectors are not in homes? They are actually Smoke Alarms found in residential homes. Maybe Florida's SOP also needs updating.

Personally (my opinion) is all Smoke Alarms should be tested to at lease ascertain their function. If they are truly Smoke Alarms then they are not complicated, simply press and listen...very simple process.

In regards to NACHI's SOP....I would eat that up in court as any other SOP because the judge doesn't care about what an SOP says about testing when someone dies. They will ask did you test them and an expert will stand up and say why you should have tested them.



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  #26  
Old 8/30/18, 7:24 PM
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Default Re: NACHI's Electrical SOP is outdated

Great info, as usual Paul.
THANKS!

My alarm system is supposed to have a heat sensor but that's another story.



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  #27  
Old 8/31/18, 3:47 PM
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Default Re: NACHI's Electrical SOP is outdated

In NJ, the seller is required to get a fire cert before they can sell.



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  #28  
Old 9/2/18, 10:47 AM
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Default Re: NACHI's Electrical SOP is outdated

Two times this week I inspected 30+ year old houses with cathedral or vaulted ceilings that would likely have required a 19' extension ladder to get to the ceiling where the smoke alarm was located ..... NOT something we're gonna try to drag thru their house and set up.



We use the following statement along with the information we did not operate the alarms AND why (fire truck, etc).



Quote:
Safety Recommendation Upon Move In and On A Regular Basis: The National Fire Protection Association states smoke alarms should be changed if more than 10 years old and in our opinion you should ensure all units are present then test all units a day before taking occupancy and then monthly thereafter according to manufacturer's instructions.



Current safety standards state smoke alarms should be at all sleeping rooms; on each level of the building (including basement or crawlspace); at any equipment room; on ceilings or high on walls.



Batteries should be replaced every 6 months or sooner if a smoke alarm "chirps," indicating a low battery. Smoke alarms should be replaced every 10 years, even those hard-wired, or labeled "long life" 10-year battery-types. We recommend installing these at any above areas without one.


Current safety standards recommend a CO-monitor outside each sleeping area or any equipment rooms without one.



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  #29  
Old 9/2/18, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: NACHI's Electrical SOP is outdated

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfunderburk View Post
Sure seems like a home inspector with more than a weeks worth of experience should be able to distinguish builder grade smoke alarms from those connected to a security system. Hint: the ones on the security system are found only in the hallways 99% of the time. Frequently right beside the standard alarm.
And you yourself don't get it right, as 99% (your number) of the units you are describing are actually DETECTORS not ALARMS!


And then there are the new Blutooth devices....



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  #30  
Old 9/3/18, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: NACHI's Electrical SOP is outdated

Again ALARMS are self alarming while DETECTORS send a signal to a central system that triggers a separate alarm function. In residential homes a smoke alarm is hard wired to the electrical system, operates at 120V and is self alarming. If the home has a smoke detector then it will be low low voltage (under 50 volts) and interconnected to a monitoring system. It may or may not have an internal alarm function but since it is triggered by the monitoring system then it is a detector.



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