NM cable, romex in attics

Would like some opinion on this attic and NM cable installation…

Should the cables be properly supported? Junction boxes laying loose on attic floor acceptable? Non insulated metal staples?

Thanks,

Looks like you got one of those so common Licensed Electrical Contractor’s that never thought anyone would ever see the work they did.
“Quick cover it up before the inspector comes”

Thanks Kevin. I agree but looking for some “verbage”… :slight_smile:

No problem with the staples.
The J boxes should be attached to the joists. At least they had bushings.
Messy but looks like a remodel. Wiring is normally done before any insulation is installed on new construction.

First John what is the clearance! Is it less than 39.4 inches? If is greater than this than it must be run in holes or have some form of protection. I know that this only applies as a Rule 12-514(a) so it may be different where you are.
J-box can be facing down and accessible or on the ATTIC rafter as Stephen said.
I would want this to be checked as I am sure this is not done by a Licensed competent Electrical Contractor.

Much greater than 39.4". Theres a furnace up there and I could stand and walk the length of the attic. I’m 6’3". I know it was a crap install, as most of the time they at least make an effort to make it look somewhat neat and tidy…

A sidebar, I called out the whole damn system anyway. Panels were both FPE stab-loks. Just one of many issues with this house I am afraid…

Was this unincorporated or within township limits?

Jeff

Heck, if I see a junction box used, it’s rare, let alone one with a cover. I wouldn’t comment on anything there.

The cables meet the requirements of the code;
**

The fact that they are lying on the joist is support although it is not very pretty.

The boxes are a different story;

The boxes needs to be fastened to the joist.

As has already been pointed out the staples are fine and are an approved method for securing NM cable in place.

Mike or Joseph (both names appear in response), you are incorrect. If you read the quoted code that you yourself even provided, it requires the cable to be supported AND secured, not OR. Both conditions are required for the installation to satisfy the requirement. This is a very common mistake with NM installations.

When a fault current passes through any conductor, the conductor actually attempts to take the shape of a sine wave. If it is not appropriately secured, it can place strain on the termination points.

Thanks for clearing that up William!
Since you are in the same position as someone that left us to start training, it is good to have a MASTER ELECTRICIAN again.

It is Joseph Micheal but Mom called me Mike for 55 years but you can call me anything you like just call me for supper. :slight_smile:

Well I sure have roped in a lot of NM in bored holes that was not secured. How many feet have I fished in a wall without any type of anything to secure it in place. Each by the way is allowed by the same code section.

It would take a lot more current than those NM cables in the picture could carry to make it wiggle around enough to pull loose. The conductor would melt first.

This should be a good battle I will go get the popcorn!:shock:

First, this is NM across joists, not through bored holes and not fished in finished walls.

Second, that little number #12 wire will carry several thousand amps of current.

Actually that would depend on the duration of the current flow. If I remember correctly a #12 copper conductor will melt when it conducts about 200 amps continuously.

My original response to the post stated fault current and the fact that unsecured conductors in cables can cause the cable to be damaged. Agreed that continuous current draw will certainly cause failure.

BTW, congratulations being named Mike Holt’s chief moderator for his forum.

I let you and Mike argue that one out. :roll:

Thanks, my current term ends in two months unless they decide to keep me around for another year. :smiley:

I see I didn’t miss much my Popcorn’s ready! LOL
I guess that the show is over.:frowning:

I really dont argue. It is senseless. I am only concerned that correct information is passed on to those who are seeking it.

Many often dont realize the seriousness of the electrical work that they complete and they sometimes dont have a correct understanding of what they interpret.

William since I am from Ontario I am curious to know how close the training is for getting the Master ELECTRICIAN that you have.
Is it 18000 hrs also.
Does it go “Qualified” to write the test.
License before 9000 hrs or Licensed after passing the exam and field work required?
Is there a problem with you calling yourself CERTIFIED or is licensed for everyone including a MASTER.
More Important is there different levels of a license in Electrical?