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  #46  
Old 7/15/12, 12:04 PM
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI's Avatar
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI Marcel R. Cyr, CMI is offline
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Default Re: What would you say on your report?

I would be curious to see a Home Inspection Sample Report of yours Kevin.

Show me one with pictures and how you explain to the clients what you see and therefore call it a defect.



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  #47  
Old 7/15/12, 12:04 PM
Joseph M. Whitt Joseph M. Whitt is offline
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Default Re: What would you say on your report?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwood View Post
The is a SQUARE D main that has a sub panel tapped off the main service wire lugs.
This is my report on the panels in question;
The remote distribution panel board to the right of the service disconnect has tap conductors that are supplying the remote distribution panel under the first panel board enclosure.
Although these tap conductors is of the appropriate size the doubling of conductors in the lugs of the first distribution panel needs attention be a licensed and qualified electrician.

The one thing that a lot of Home Inspectors forget is the Purpose of the NEC. They somehow think that their opinion concerning certain matters means more than the adopted codes and this is what gives the profession a bad name.
90.1 Purpose. (A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity.

In other words if the code says it is alright then it is safe.

To try and justify ones opinion with a lot of “what-ifs” is really sad. One example of this is the recent receptacle in the closet. “What-if” someone plugged in an iron and then closed the door? Well, “what-if” daddy comes home drunk as starts shooting everything that moves? What if a rock falls from the sky and hits me in the head? What if my neighbor is driving drunk and drives through the front door?

I don’t suppose the “what-ifs” carries a whole lot of weight as I can sit here and what if all day long. What if frogs carried a 38 reckon snakes would eat them for supper?



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  #48  
Old 7/15/12, 12:18 PM
KEVIN WOOD, CMI KEVIN WOOD, CMI is offline
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Default Re: What would you say on your report?

What if it is different in Canada and even more stringent in Ontario.
You did put in more detail then I did Mr. Witt but yes this does need to be evaluated by a Certified Electrician.
We are just discussing this issue still on InspectionNews if you want to jump in.
H.G Watson has elaborated it to HALF a page. Very very interesting.
John has also pointed out a mistake made by another so called Electrician.
Check it out it is worth it just to see how he explains the issue.
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  #49  
Old 7/15/12, 1:55 PM
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ldapkus1 ldapkus1 is offline
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Default Re: What would you say on your report?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
It might help to know to whom your posts are directed to. If it was directed to me I will not play your little games with the chicken little or what if's. I will justify my answers using what is allowed or not based on the codes that I am held to installing to. There was no personal agenda against you, just refuting statements you have posted that were incorrect.

Holding a title of CMI and asking these basic questions and using the wrong terminolgy or such a poor understanding one of a homes major infrastructure systems does nothing to add any credibility to that title or the HI industry.
That's the point we've been trying to make ever since Kevin bought the CMI designation. It's a disgrace.
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  #50  
Old 7/15/12, 2:00 PM
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ldapkus1 ldapkus1 is offline
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Default Re: What would you say on your report?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpope View Post
I already gave the appropriate report-comment, which is not only simple, it's accurate. Apparently you missed it.
If you want me to stop "attacking" you, then you need to reconsider your own manner.

You represent yourself as a "Master," a "Teacher" and the "President" of a Canadian Association. All of which would imply a much greater level of experience and education than you actually possess.

You compound this misrepresentation by making statements that are completely inaccurate (to the degree of negligence), and then when confronted with facts, you refuse to change your position.

You are not qualified to carry your self-appointed "credentials," but carry on if you wish to do so. Just don't expect me to sit back and allow you to discredit this profession by making unqualified, inaccurate and outright-false statements on this public forum.
I see a pattern here.
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  #51  
Old 7/15/12, 2:03 PM
Christopher Currins, CMI Christopher Currins, CMI is offline
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Default Re: What would you say on your report?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwood View Post
.
We are just discussing this issue still on InspectionNews if you want to jump in.
H.G Watson has elaborated it to HALF a page. Very very interesting.
John has also pointed out a mistake made by another so called Electrician.
Check it out it is worth it just to see how he explains the issue.
Do you have a link, this should be interesting.
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  #52  
Old 7/15/12, 2:12 PM
KEVIN WOOD, CMI KEVIN WOOD, CMI is offline
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Default Re: What would you say on your report?

Just go sign in Christopher!
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  #53  
Old 7/15/12, 2:13 PM
Christopher Currins, CMI Christopher Currins, CMI is offline
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Default Re: What would you say on your report?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwood View Post
Just go sign in Christopher!
Then I have to wade through all of the other useless links to find yours, no thanks.
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  #54  
Old 7/15/12, 2:48 PM
KEVIN WOOD, CMI KEVIN WOOD, CMI is offline
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Default Re: What would you say on your report?

Oh no this is hot topic across the bridge as I have pointed out. We still have not got the ESA to step in yet but I am hoping soon.
Top discussion at this point.
Marcel if you are still there.
My Report was close to what was stated by the website.
I did point out that updates were needed for the bedrooms and areas.
According to standards today.
Since an Electrician is needed to evaluate this problem it is best to have him to check and see if tapping in this manner is allowed.
The picture had circles on all lugs.
There were many issues in the homes electrical so I left it up to him to figure everything according to what is and is not allowed.
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  #55  
Old 7/15/12, 3:19 PM
KEVIN WOOD, CMI KEVIN WOOD, CMI is offline
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Default Re: What would you say on your report?

This is also what we could say for same situation.
There is double tapping of the panels lugs or "Double Lugging" This is when two or more wires or conductors terminate under one screw or lug in this case. The problem here is that if not rated for this application there may not be enough contact on one wire or conductor which can lead to arcing and possible loose connection causing possible over heating of the conductors.
This should always be fully evaluated by a Certified Electrician.
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  #56  
Old 7/15/12, 3:28 PM
Jeffrey R. Jonas's Avatar
Jeffrey R. Jonas Jeffrey R. Jonas is online now
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Default Re: What would you say on your report?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwood View Post
This is also what we could say for same situation.
There is double tapping of the panels lugs or "Double Lugging" This is when two or more wires or conductors terminate under one screw or lug in this case. The problem here is that if not rated for this application there may not be enough contact on one wire or conductor which can lead to arcing and possible loose connection causing possible over heating of the conductors.
This should always be fully evaluated by a Certified Electrician.
And what if those lugs are rated for two conductors. Then what, if anything, would you say about it?



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  #57  
Old 7/15/12, 3:33 PM
KEVIN WOOD, CMI KEVIN WOOD, CMI is offline
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Default Re: What would you say on your report?

That is why I left it up to the Electrician. In this case it was not!
Square D does have ones designed this way and so does Cuttler-Hammer.
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  #58  
Old 7/15/12, 3:37 PM
KEVIN WOOD, CMI KEVIN WOOD, CMI is offline
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Default Re: What would you say on your report?

This should help!
Double lugged breakers?
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  #59  
Old 7/15/12, 4:12 PM
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Michael Larson Michael Larson is online now
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Default Re: What would you say on your report?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjonas View Post
And what if those lugs are rated for two conductors. Then what, if anything, would you say about it?
Yep, that was exactly my point on post2



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  #60  
Old 7/15/12, 6:06 PM
Jeffrey R. Pope, CMI's Avatar
Jeffrey R. Pope, CMI Jeffrey R. Pope, CMI is offline
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Default Re: What would you say on your report?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwood View Post
What if it is different in Canada and even more stringent in Ontario.
You did put in more detail then I did Mr. Witt but yes this does need to be evaluated by a Certified Electrician.
We are just discussing this issue still on InspectionNews if you want to jump in.
H.G Watson has elaborated it to HALF a page. Very very interesting.
John has also pointed out a mistake made by another so called Electrician.
Check it out it is worth it just to see how he explains the issue.
It's not much of a discussion over there. It's more like what I referred to before - Whack-A-Mole!

Every time Kevin is hit with the "fact-mallet," he pops his head up somewhere else and spouts off another fallacy to try and divert attention.

The truth is, Kevin is getting his a s s handed to him, but he doesn't have the cognitive aptitude to even recognize it.



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