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  #1  
Old 10/1/16, 11:45 AM
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Default Sub Panel: Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar Question

Is this narrative ok or what could I do to make it better?


"Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar. In a sub panel the neutrals and grounds should be on separate bars with the ground bar bonded to the panel and the neutral bar floating. Recommend further evaluation by a licensed electrician."




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  #2  
Old 10/1/16, 11:56 AM
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Default Re: Sub Panel: Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar Question

I would replace the word grounds with proper NEC term Equipment Grounding Conductors.
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Old 10/1/16, 12:09 PM
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Default Re: Sub Panel: Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar Question

Robert Thank you, but do you think the average homeowner would understand what Equipment Grounding Conductors are? Just askin'
I like to keep all my narratives very easy to understand by anyone..
However, I have changed it to Equipment Grounding Conductors.
Thanks again.




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Last edited by rlewis5; 10/1/16 at 12:14 PM..
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Old 10/1/16, 12:24 PM
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Default Re: Sub Panel: Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlewis5 View Post
Robert Thank you, but do you think the average homeowner would understand what Equipment Grounding Conductors are? Just askin'
I like to keep all my narratives very easy to understand by anyone..
However, I have changed it to Equipment Grounding Conductors.
Thanks again.
If you use the above term and put "grounding wires" in parenthesis, homeowners and professionals would understand.
Just sayin'.



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Go away Rosie. You haven't had anything useful to say since you lost your mind when Trump won.
You are such a loser.


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Old 10/1/16, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: Sub Panel: Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ldapkus View Post
If you use the above term and put "grounding wires" in parenthesis, homeowners and professionals would understand.
Just sayin'.
Are you saying to replace grounds with "(grounding wires)"?

Neutrals and equipment grounding conductors (grounding wires) on same bus bar. In a sub panel the neutrals and equipment grounding conductors should be on separate bars with the ground bar bonded to the panel and the neutral bar floating. Recommend further evaluation by a licensed electrician.

Is that what you mean?

Thanks




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Last edited by rlewis5; 10/1/16 at 12:30 PM..
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Old 10/1/16, 12:39 PM
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Default Re: Sub Panel: Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlewis5 View Post
Are you saying to replace grounds with "(grounding wires)"?

Neutrals and equipment grounding conductors (grounding wires) on same bus bar. In a sub panel the neutrals and equipment grounding conductors should be on separate bars with the ground bar bonded to the panel and the neutral bar floating. Recommend further evaluation by a licensed electrician.

Is that what you mean?

Thanks
No, replace them with ground black peppercorns. WTF??
Don't be a Wayne.



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Go away Rosie. You haven't had anything useful to say since you lost your mind when Trump won.
You are such a loser.


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  #7  
Old 10/1/16, 12:53 PM
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Default Re: Sub Panel: Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ldapkus View Post
If you use the above term and put "grounding wires" in parenthesis, homeowners and professionals would understand.
Just sayin'.
Agree, but use "...grounds (EGC's)..." instead of "...grounds (grounding wires)...".
JMHO



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  #8  
Old 10/1/16, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: Sub Panel: Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ldapkus View Post
No, replace them with ground black peppercorns. WTF??
Don't be a Wayne.
Thank you Linas for being you...
ground black peppercorns sounds good to me.




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  #9  
Old 10/1/16, 1:00 PM
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Default Re: Sub Panel: Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlewis5 View Post
Robert Thank you, but do you think the average homeowner would understand what Equipment Grounding Conductors are? Just askin'
I like to keep all my narratives very easy to understand by anyone..
However, I have changed it to Equipment Grounding Conductors.
Thanks again.
I can understand your desire keep it simple but if they don't understand the difference between equipment grounding conductors and neutral conductors then they're going to need professional help anyway. Just my 2 cents but the word ground(s) is too broad and is often misused.
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Old 10/1/16, 1:08 PM
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Default Re: Sub Panel: Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar Question

Thanks...
Equipment Grounding Conductors it is!




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  #11  
Old 10/1/16, 1:19 PM
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Default Re: Sub Panel: Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar Question

No mention of why or what could happen if left as is? No mention of a safety issue? I think the average home buyer needs to know why.
I don't think the average home buyer needs to know the difference between grounds and egc's. An electrician is going to be the one doing the repairs, so word it in terms they understand with professional vocabulary.
Why does an electrician have to evaluate? Evaluate what? It's wrong and needs a fixin'




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  #12  
Old 10/1/16, 1:31 PM
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Default Re: Sub Panel: Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar Question

That is why I post the question..
Josh how would you phrase it?




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  #13  
Old 10/1/16, 5:43 PM
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Default Re: Sub Panel: Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlewis5 View Post
Is this narrative ok or what could I do to make it better?


"Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar. In a sub panel the neutrals and grounds should be on separate bars with the ground bar bonded to the panel and the neutral bar floating. Recommend further evaluation by a licensed electrician."
This narrative doesn't accurately describe any particular condition (IMHO).

Here are several conditions that are usually associated with what you're trying to describe:

(1) Equipment grounding conductors are attached to the isolated neutral terminal.
(2) Neutrals have been attached to the equipment grounding terminal.
(3) The neutral terminal has been bonded to the enclosure.
(4) The equipment grounding conductors have not been bonded to the enclosure.

I use "equipment grounding conductors (EGC's)" in my reporting. Then, rather than "recommend further evaluation," I use "which should be corrected by a qualified electrician."



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Old 10/1/16, 7:24 PM
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Default Re: Sub Panel: Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar Question

If the panel is in a detached building there is nothing wrong with that if fed by a 3 wire feeder under certain conditions. Do not just use that verbiage as a blanket unless it applies.
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  #15  
Old 10/2/16, 9:46 AM
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Default Re: Sub Panel: Neutrals and grounds on same bus bar Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrederick View Post
No mention of why or what could happen if left as is? No mention of a safety issue? I think the average home buyer needs to know why.
I don't think the average home buyer needs to know the difference between grounds and egc's. An electrician is going to be the one doing the repairs, so word it in terms they understand with professional vocabulary.
Why does an electrician have to evaluate? Evaluate what? It's wrong and needs a fixin'
I just add " dangerous conditions can occur"...

SAFETY: "Neutral wires and equipment grounds should not be bonded in a sub panel. Dangerous conditions can occur. They should be separated and isolated by a qualified electrical contractor for safety."




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