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  #1  
Old 10/25/15, 8:13 PM
Kenneth A. Ramm Kenneth A. Ramm is offline
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Default Radon mitigation system installed wrong

So I can not find where there is a protocol for what goes in a test report. Can you direct me.
When you do JUST a radon test (no home inspection) with a mitigation system installed do you put in the report...
There is..
It was operating..
Not installed correctly if it was not (like above the roof) (wiring)etc.

When I do just a test (no home inspection) I always look to make sure the mitigation system is operating, I also look things over and put any discrepancies in the report as an FYI and to contact a mitigation contractor. I have never had a problem with this.

This weekend I did just a test and the system was not installed correctly and I noted in the test report about the pipe not past the roof line, wiring was wrong and the system gauge was installed at a 45 degree angle. I included a link in the report to the EPA mitigation installation standard. http://www.radon.com/pubs/mitstds.html#systemsdesign And of course the guy was the cheapest.
I did a test on the home prior to the system as they are selling and it was the buyers who hired me the 1st time and the sellers the 2nd time to make sure it was working as the contractor did not test after. of course he refutes anything I said in the report.
Just wondering your thoughts.



Kenneth (Kenny) Ramm
608-438-3986
RammHomeInspections@gmail.com
Wisconsin License 2516-106
InterNACHI #12101905
Level II Infraspection Institute Certified Infrared Thermographer #10786

"If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or objects." Albert Einstein
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  #2  
Old 10/25/15, 8:18 PM
Michael Larson's Avatar
Michael Larson Michael Larson is online now
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Default Re: Radon mitigation system installed wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramm View Post
So I can not find where there is a protocol for what goes in a test report. Can you direct me.
When you do JUST a radon test (no home inspection) with a mitigation system installed do you put in the report...
There is..
It was operating..
Not installed correctly if it was not (like above the roof) (wiring)etc.

When I do just a test (no home inspection) I always look to make sure the mitigation system is operating, I also look things over and put any discrepancies in the report as an FYI and to contact a mitigation contractor. I have never had a problem with this.

This weekend I did just a test and the system was not installed correctly and I noted in the test report about the pipe not past the roof line, wiring was wrong and the system gauge was installed at a 45 degree angle. I included a link in the report to the EPA mitigation installation standard. http://www.radon.com/pubs/mitstds.html#systemsdesign And of course the guy was the cheapest.
I did a test on the home prior to the system as they are selling and it was the buyers who hired me the 1st time and the sellers the 2nd time to make sure it was working as the contractor did not test after. of course he refutes anything I said in the report.
Just wondering your thoughts.
Where you hired to verify or to evaluate the system?

I use this checklist for verifying system installation during an inspection.

https://www.wvdhhr.org/rtia/pdf/ashicklst.pdf

How far do you want to step into this mess?



As a Professional Home Inspector, I support the privacy of my clients.



www.InspectraPro.com
www.MinnesotaHomeInspector.biz

Michael Larson
Hudson, WI

Services provided in East MN and West WI

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  #3  
Old 10/25/15, 8:32 PM
Kenneth A. Ramm Kenneth A. Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Radon mitigation system installed wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlarson View Post
Where you hired to verify or to evaluate the system?

I use this checklist for verifying system installation during an inspection.

https://www.wvdhhr.org/rtia/pdf/ashicklst.pdf

How far do you want to step into this mess?
I was verifying that the system works.
No I was not hired to evaluate the system.
I did put FYI about a quick visual and to have a Qualified Mit. cont. further evaluate and correct as needed.

So for just a test you do not verify anything of the system?



Kenneth (Kenny) Ramm
608-438-3986
RammHomeInspections@gmail.com
Wisconsin License 2516-106
InterNACHI #12101905
Level II Infraspection Institute Certified Infrared Thermographer #10786

"If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or objects." Albert Einstein
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  #4  
Old 10/25/15, 8:40 PM
Michael Larson's Avatar
Michael Larson Michael Larson is online now
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Default Re: Radon mitigation system installed wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramm View Post
I was verifying that the system works.
No I was not hired to evaluate the system.
I did put FYI about a quick visual and to have a Qualified Mit. cont. further evaluate and correct as needed.

So for just a test you do not verify anything of the system?
It is up to you to report your test results.

You could just refer your client to the checklist or the EPA guidelines,

Let me try it this way.

If you are doing a radon test do you report obvious defects in the home?

Where do yo draw the line?



As a Professional Home Inspector, I support the privacy of my clients.



www.InspectraPro.com
www.MinnesotaHomeInspector.biz

Michael Larson
Hudson, WI

Services provided in East MN and West WI

Call me


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  #5  
Old 10/25/15, 8:50 PM
Kenneth A. Ramm Kenneth A. Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Radon mitigation system installed wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlarson View Post
It is up to you to report your test results.

You could just refer your client to the checklist or the EPA guidelines,

Let me try it this way.

If you are doing a radon test do you report obvious defects in the home?

Where do yo draw the line?
I totally agree with you that's why I didn't inspect the system during a test but if you have to verify it works / on and you notice the new system was not installed correctly do you not have an obligation to inform your clients it was not right?
What would be the difference if I said it was not right and just provided a link.



Kenneth (Kenny) Ramm
608-438-3986
RammHomeInspections@gmail.com
Wisconsin License 2516-106
InterNACHI #12101905
Level II Infraspection Institute Certified Infrared Thermographer #10786

"If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or objects." Albert Einstein
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  #6  
Old 10/25/15, 9:01 PM
Michael Larson's Avatar
Michael Larson Michael Larson is online now
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Posts: 70,366
Default Re: Radon mitigation system installed wrong

I would report your test results and any issue you happened to notice that is not correct.

You seemed to have uncovered an poor installer.

Let them deal with their installer.



As a Professional Home Inspector, I support the privacy of my clients.



www.InspectraPro.com
www.MinnesotaHomeInspector.biz

Michael Larson
Hudson, WI

Services provided in East MN and West WI

Call me


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  #7  
Old 10/25/15, 9:12 PM
Kenneth A. Ramm Kenneth A. Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Radon mitigation system installed wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlarson View Post
I would report your test results and any issue you happened to notice that is not correct.

You seemed to have uncovered an poor installer.

Let them deal with their installer.
That's what I was going to do but was just wondering if there was a standard for just radon test reports or if it is an individual thing. I have seen just the test numbers sent in and no real report on vents, exhausts, weather temperatures etc etc.
Thanks Mike.



Kenneth (Kenny) Ramm
608-438-3986
RammHomeInspections@gmail.com
Wisconsin License 2516-106
InterNACHI #12101905
Level II Infraspection Institute Certified Infrared Thermographer #10786

"If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or objects." Albert Einstein
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  #8  
Old 10/26/15, 7:08 PM
Nick Gromicko, CMI's Avatar
Nick Gromicko, CMI Nick Gromicko, CMI is online now
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Default Re: Radon mitigation system installed wrong

That checklist has a lot missing. Use this one: https://www.nachi.org/comsop.htm#18
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  #9  
Old 10/26/15, 8:00 PM
Kenneth A. Ramm Kenneth A. Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Radon mitigation system installed wrong

So I was looking for an SOP for the test documentation and this is what I have found.
If you know of more or more recent please post it. This is from the EPA. and it's from 1999
http://www.radon.com/pubs/devprot2.html#1.2

Quote:
1.2.4 Documentation

The operator of the measurement device must record enough information about the measurement in a permanent log so that data interpretation and comparison can be made.

The results of radon decay product measurements should be reported in Working Levels (WL). If the WL value is converted to a radon concentration which is also reported to a homeowner, it should be stated that this approximate conversion is based on a 50 percent equilibrium ratio. In addition, the report should indicate that this ratio is typical of the home environment, but any indoor environment (especially in schools and workplaces) may have a different and varying relationship between radon and decay products.

The following list may be applied to each of the measurement methods discussed in Sections 2 and 3. However, there may be method-specific documentation requirements that will be mentioned in the applicable protocol.

The start and stop times and dates of the measurement;

Whether the standardized measurement conditions, as discussed in Section 1.2.2, are satisfied;

The exact location of the device, on a diagram of the room and building if possible;

Other easily obtained information that may be useful, such as the type of building and heating system, the existence of a crawl space or basement, the occupants' smoking habits, and the operation of humidifiers, air filters, electrostatic precipitators, and clothes dryers;

The serial number and manufacturer of the detector, along with the code number or description which uniquely identifies customer, building, room, and sampling position; and

The condition (open or closed) of any crawl space vents.



Kenneth (Kenny) Ramm
608-438-3986
RammHomeInspections@gmail.com
Wisconsin License 2516-106
InterNACHI #12101905
Level II Infraspection Institute Certified Infrared Thermographer #10786

"If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or objects." Albert Einstein
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  #10  
Old 10/27/15, 2:24 AM
Nick Gromicko, CMI's Avatar
Nick Gromicko, CMI Nick Gromicko, CMI is online now
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Default Re: Radon mitigation system installed wrong

It's in the only NRPP, IAC2, AARST approved radon course in existence and the most state-approved radon course in existence: https://www.nachi.org/radon-measureme...ine-course.htm
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  #11  
Old 10/27/15, 8:36 AM
David Hays David Hays is online now
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Default Re: Radon mitigation system installed wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramm View Post
So I can not find where there is a protocol for what goes in a test report. Can you direct me.
When you do JUST a radon test (no home inspection) with a mitigation system installed do you put in the report...
There is..
It was operating..
Not installed correctly if it was not (like above the roof) (wiring)etc.

When I do just a test (no home inspection) I always look to make sure the mitigation system is operating, I also look things over and put any discrepancies in the report as an FYI and to contact a mitigation contractor. I have never had a problem with this.

This weekend I did just a test and the system was not installed correctly and I noted in the test report about the pipe not past the roof line, wiring was wrong and the system gauge was installed at a 45 degree angle. I included a link in the report to the EPA mitigation installation standard. http://www.radon.com/pubs/mitstds.html#systemsdesign And of course the guy was the cheapest.
I did a test on the home prior to the system as they are selling and it was the buyers who hired me the 1st time and the sellers the 2nd time to make sure it was working as the contractor did not test after. of course he refutes anything I said in the report.
Just wondering your thoughts.
Kenneth,
My inspection software has a section that I can fill out for radon mitigation systems. When home has a mitigation system I inspect the components and list any defects.
If it was just a radon test and nothing else I would not inspect it unless asked to and then my fee would increase as well.



David Hays
All Points Property Inspections LLC
Denver, CO
720-217-7821
david@allpointinspect.com
www.allpointshomeinspections.org
www.denvercommercialinspections.com
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  #12  
Old 10/27/15, 8:49 AM
Kenneth A. Ramm Kenneth A. Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Radon mitigation system installed wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
Kenneth,
My inspection software has a section that I can fill out for radon mitigation systems. When home has a mitigation system I inspect the components and list any defects.
If it was just a radon test and nothing else I would not inspect it unless asked to and then my fee would increase as well.
This is what I do as well.
When verifying it was working I observed the U tube was wrong I looked outside and observed several other things wrong. So I just noted it in the report.
What would you have done or do you not verify it's working?



Kenneth (Kenny) Ramm
608-438-3986
RammHomeInspections@gmail.com
Wisconsin License 2516-106
InterNACHI #12101905
Level II Infraspection Institute Certified Infrared Thermographer #10786

"If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or objects." Albert Einstein
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  #13  
Old 10/27/15, 10:42 AM
Arron Buck's Avatar
Arron Buck Arron Buck is offline
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Location: Apopka, FL
Posts: 157
Default Re: Radon mitigation system installed wrong

When I sold my last house the buyer wanted a radon Mitigation system put in due to elevated levels in the basement. From what I found it seemed there was no "official" way it had to be done unless it was installed by a licensed company. In that case they had to bring the discharge air up past the eaves.


I found this set-up which was interesting- http://www.tjernlund.com/radonvac.htm. In the end I got lucky and the buyers lender offered a $1500 credit on their closing to have it done by a professional so I paid for the system to be put in and reduced the closing cost we were paying for the buyer.


ETA: Forgot to mention that when the company installed the unit at my old home they initially led me to believe they would be testing when in fact they just gave me the basic $10 kit to do myself. They stated that they could not test it themselves since it would be a conflict of interest since they guaranteed the system would work.

Last edited by abuck; 10/27/15 at 11:08 AM.. Reason: Added to post
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  #14  
Old 10/31/15, 12:21 PM
David Hays David Hays is online now
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Default Re: Radon mitigation system installed wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramm View Post
This is what I do as well.
When verifying it was working I observed the U tube was wrong I looked outside and observed several other things wrong. So I just noted it in the report.
What would you have done or do you not verify it's working?
If I am only hired to do a radon test and no home inspection I will only do the radon test. I will not be inspecting any part of the home. If they want an inspection I can do that, for a fee.

I rarely do stand alone radon tests.

If doing a home inspection on a home that has a mitigation system I will inspect the components of the system to be sure they are installed correctly and if the fan is operating. I do note what I find on the report. I also note that I don't know if the system is reducing the radon levels since I am not doing a radon test.



David Hays
All Points Property Inspections LLC
Denver, CO
720-217-7821
david@allpointinspect.com
www.allpointshomeinspections.org
www.denvercommercialinspections.com
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