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  #1  
Old 3/16/11, 8:25 PM
Sean Fogarty's Avatar
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Default Do you bond the plumbing supply,

Do you bond the plumbing supply, when the service to the regulator and stub outs are copper, but the rest is pex??





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  #2  
Old 3/16/11, 11:03 PM
Mark R. Wolff Mark R. Wolff is offline
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Default Re: Do you bond the plumbing supply,

Not sure what you meen by regulator (pressure reducing valve)? If there is considerable length to the copper in the house from the meter, then possibly that would be bonded. But Most pex systems do not need to be bonded. And definitely not the stub outs, that would be a nightmare at all the fixtures. Or maybe nobody has come up with a plastic ground clamp yet !
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  #3  
Old 3/16/11, 11:26 PM
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Default Re: Do you bond the plumbing supply,

2009 IRC E3608.1.1 Metal underground water pipe. A metal underground
water pipe that is in direct contact with the earth for 10
feet (3048 mm) or more, including any well casing effectively
bonded to the pipe and that is electrically continuous, or made
electrically continuous by bonding around insulating joints or
insulating pipe to the points of connection of the grounding
electrode conductor and the bonding conductors, shall be considered
as a grounding electrode (see Section E3608.1). Interior
metal water piping located more than 5 feet (1524 mm)
from the entrance to the building shall not be used as part of the
grounding electrode system or as a conductor to interconnect
electrodes that are part of the grounding electrode system.

Commentary:
Any metal water pipe in contact with the earth for 10 feet
(3048 mm) or more is considered a grounding electrode.
It is often thought that only the main water service piping
fits this description, but any metal water pipe, such as an
irrigation pipe or pipe from a water well, if buried in the
earth for 10 feet (3048 mm) or more, must be bonded as
part of the grounding electrode system. The pipe could
be of any material such as copper or steel because the
code does not mention the type of metal. In many
houses, a water meter, water-pressure reducing valve,
or similar equipment is installed in the water supply line.
A bonding jumper of the same size as the grounding
electrode conductor is installed around such devices because
many of these devices are made of
nonconductive materials. In many cases, when the device
is removed and/or replaced, the grounding electrode
is disconnected. A useful practice is to leave
enough slack in the bonding jumper around the device
that the jumper will not have to be taken off the piping in
the event the device is replaced.
The code assumes that the first 5 feet (1524 mm) of
water piping, measured from the point that the piping
penetrates an outside wall or floor slab on grade, will not
be disturbed or altered by plumbing work. Any piping beyond
5 feet (1524 mm) into the building is more likely to
be altered such that electrical continuity is lost. This alteration
could take the form of the installation of plastic piping,
nonconductive components (e.g. water filters), dielectric
fittings or the removal of grounding clamps.
A supplemental grounding electrode is always
required when a water pipe electrode is used
. The most
commonly used supplemental grounding electrode is the
ground rod. That is why in so many dwellings a grounding
electrode conductor is run from the service equipment
to the entry point of the water pipe and another
grounding electrode conductor is run to a ground rod.
The ground rod is quite often driven into the ground close
to the service equipment. A grounding electrode conductor
that connects the service equipment to a ground rod,
pipe or plate electrode and connects to no other elec-
trodes is not required to be larger than size 6 AWG copper
or 4 AWG aluminum (see note to Table E3603.1 and
Section E3610.2).



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Last edited by jfunderburk; 3/17/11 at 12:41 PM..
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  #4  
Old 3/17/11, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: Do you bond the plumbing supply,

The answer is run a grounding wire from your copper main to all plumbing and bond to it!

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Last edited by mbeauchemin; 3/17/11 at 12:36 AM.. Reason: plumbing
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  #5  
Old 3/17/11, 12:42 AM
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Default Re: Do you bond the plumbing supply,

Uh, no? Was this a serious question, or are you jerking our chain?

You cannot create an electrical bond between plastic and metal. Stub-outs and fixtures do not require independent bonding as they are not "likely to become energized."



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  #6  
Old 3/17/11, 2:36 AM
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Default Re: Do you bond the plumbing supply,

Jeff, he seems to be saying the service pipe is copper. Irrespective of the distribution being PEX, if the service pipe is buried for 10' or more, it should be treated as part of the GES.



“The things that will destroy America are peace at any price,
prosperity at any cost, safety first instead of duty first,
the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.”
Theodore Roosevelt


Joe Funderburk, CBO, CMI
Alpha & Omega Home Inspections, LLC
Inspecting Upstate SC & Charlotte Metro, NC
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  #7  
Old 3/17/11, 8:30 AM
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Default Re: Do you bond the plumbing supply,

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpope View Post
Uh, no? Was this a serious question, or are you jerking our chain?

You cannot create an electrical bond between plastic and metal. Stub-outs and fixtures do not require independent bonding as they are not "likely to become energized."
No its a serious question.

Only sections of the pipe were copper. There was no bond, but I wanted to make sure since some of the pipe was copper you still were not required in some manner.

I didn't think it should be but was just wondered more than anything.





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  #8  
Old 3/17/11, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: Do you bond the plumbing supply,

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfunderburk View Post
Jeff, he seems to be saying the service pipe is copper. Irrespective of the distribution being PEX, if the service pipe is buried for 10' or more, it should be treated as part of the GES.
I'm not sure I agree with that, but it certainly can't hurt anyting to have the main line bonded to the GE.



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  #9  
Old 3/17/11, 12:27 PM
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Default Re: Do you bond the plumbing supply,

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpope View Post
I'm not sure I agree with that, but it certainly can't hurt anyting to have the main line bonded to the GE.
See the code in Post 3. I know you CA guys don't use the IRC, however I think that comes from the NEC.



“The things that will destroy America are peace at any price,
prosperity at any cost, safety first instead of duty first,
the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.”
Theodore Roosevelt


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Alpha & Omega Home Inspections, LLC
Inspecting Upstate SC & Charlotte Metro, NC
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  #10  
Old 3/17/11, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: Do you bond the plumbing supply,

That code says the pipe can be used as the GE. A UFER would make that pipe unnecessary as the GE. Bonding it to the existing GE would be optional.



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  #11  
Old 3/17/11, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: Do you bond the plumbing supply,

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpope View Post
That code says the pipe can be used as the GE. A UFER would make that pipe unnecessary as the GE. Bonding it to the existing GE would be optional.
The pipe must be grounded no matter what other GE is present if it's in the ground for 10' or more. As a matter of fact, the pipe cannot be the only GE. The code quoted above makes that clear.

And it must be grounded within 5' of entry into the home. So, to answer one of his questions, any metal piping more than 5' from the house wall penetration does not require bonding/grounding.



“The things that will destroy America are peace at any price,
prosperity at any cost, safety first instead of duty first,
the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.”
Theodore Roosevelt


Joe Funderburk, CBO, CMI
Alpha & Omega Home Inspections, LLC
Inspecting Upstate SC & Charlotte Metro, NC
Angie's List Super Award Winner 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010.
Ph: 704-351-1776
www.aohomeinspection.com

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  #12  
Old 3/22/11, 7:12 PM
John Allingham John Allingham is offline
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Default Re: Do you bond the plumbing supply,

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfunderburk View Post
The pipe must be grounded no matter what other GE is present if it's in the ground for 10' or more. As a matter of fact, the pipe cannot be the only GE. The code quoted above makes that clear.

And it must be grounded within 5' of entry into the home. So, to answer one of his questions, any metal piping more than 5' from the house wall penetration does not require bonding/grounding.

I think it depends where he is. Up here the incoming copper tubing is the only GE required.
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  #13  
Old 3/22/11, 9:07 PM
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Default Re: Do you bond the plumbing supply,

An entry water line is not required to be bonded in my neck of the woods.
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Old 3/23/11, 5:00 AM
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Default Re: Do you bond the plumbing supply,

A few comments about the info in this thread.

Any metallic water pipe that qualifies as an electrode (10' in contact with the earth) must be used as part of a GES (grounding electrode system) since it's considered present by the NEC.

That connection to the system must be within 5' of it's entrance into the structure and it must be supplemented by at least one other electrode.

If there is not 10' of metallic pipe in contact with the earth but the interior of the structure has a metallic piping system, then that piping system is require to be bonded even though it does not qualify as an electrode. Since short sections of metallic pipe do not make a system they are not required to be bonded.
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Old 3/23/11, 9:06 AM
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Default Re: Do you bond the plumbing supply,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Meier View Post
A few comments about the info in this thread.

Any metallic water pipe that qualifies as an electrode (10' in contact with the earth) must be used as part of a GES (grounding electrode system) since it's considered present by the NEC.

That connection to the system must be within 5' of it's entrance into the structure and it must be supplemented by at least one other electrode.

If there is not 10' of metallic pipe in contact with the earth but the interior of the structure has a metallic piping system, then that piping system is require to be bonded even though it does not qualify as an electrode. Since short sections of metallic pipe do not make a system they are not required to be bonded.
That's what I tried to say. Thanks for saying it better.



“The things that will destroy America are peace at any price,
prosperity at any cost, safety first instead of duty first,
the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.”
Theodore Roosevelt


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Alpha & Omega Home Inspections, LLC
Inspecting Upstate SC & Charlotte Metro, NC
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Ph: 704-351-1776
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