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  #16  
Old 12/29/12, 6:27 PM
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI's Avatar
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Default Re: elevating hot water heaters.

Thermostat

A device, as in a home heating system, a refrigerator, or an air conditioner, that automatically responds to temperature changes and activates switches controlling the equipment.



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  #17  
Old 12/29/12, 6:34 PM
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Default Re: elevating hot water heaters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sstanczyk View Post
My quote was directly from the Washington State Standards of Practice as codified in State law. No Washington State inspector has a choice. It must be reported as a fire hazard.
Steve, I don't disagree with what you need to follow in your area.

The next question was my last post.
Is the switch a t-stat? I guess by definition it would be.

So now what do we do with the chest freezers and the refrigerators that people have in a garage?

Good question isn't it. They all have t-stats that create the key word that all seem to lay upon, "Spark"



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  #18  
Old 12/29/12, 6:57 PM
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Default Re: elevating hot water heaters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sstanczyk View Post
My quote was directly from the Washington State Standards of Practice as codified in State law. No Washington State inspector has a choice. It must be reported as a fire hazard.
Same for Texas inspectors

Quote:
(c) Water heaters. The inspector shall:
(1) report the energy source;
(2) report the capacity of the unit(s);
(3) report as Deficient:
(A) inoperative unit(s);
(B) leaking or corroded fittings or tank(s);
(C) broken or missing parts or controls;
(D) the lack of a cold water shut-off valve;
(E) if applicable, the lack of a pan and drain system and the improper termination of the pan drain line;
(F) an unsafe location;
(G) burners, burner ignition devices or heating elements, switches, or thermostats that are not a minimum of 18 inches above the lowest garage floor elevation, unless the unit is listed for garage floor installation
;



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  #19  
Old 12/29/12, 7:01 PM
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Default Re: elevating hot water heaters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcyr View Post
Steve, I don't disagree with what you need to follow in your area.

The next question was my last post.
Is the switch a t-stat? I guess by definition it would be.

So now what do we do with the chest freezers and the refrigerators that people have in a garage?

Good question isn't it. They all have t-stats that create the key word that all seem to lay upon, "Spark"
]

Not concerned about the thermostats. But the refrigerators, freezers, washers, dryers all have motors within the 18 inch zone. I call them out and explain to my client the reason.




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  #20  
Old 12/29/12, 7:01 PM
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Default Re: elevating hot water heaters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcyr View Post
Steve, I don't disagree with what you need to follow in your area.

The next question was my last post.
Is the switch a t-stat? I guess by definition it would be.

So now what do we do with the chest freezers and the refrigerators that people have in a garage?

Good question isn't it. They all have t-stats that create the key word that all seem to lay upon, "Spark"
Now you are challenging the validity of the standard. This is not the audience for that. There is a requirement written specific to water heaters. I am unaware of of any specific requirement for freezers, washers, clothes dryers, etc. Do they pose less risk? I doubt it, but that is not the question.



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  #21  
Old 12/29/12, 7:06 PM
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI's Avatar
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI Marcel R. Cyr, CMI is offline
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Default Re: elevating hot water heaters.

I don't disagree with that.

The height of the installed thermostat on an electric water heater is 14.33"from the bottom that I found.
Now seeing that I always call for a 4" maintainace pad under equipment or appliances in the garage or basement, that would meet your 18" requirement as perceived by the ICC. Would it not?

Assembled Height (in.) 14.33 in



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  #22  
Old 12/29/12, 7:25 PM
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI's Avatar
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Default Re: elevating hot water heaters.

I don't want to bore you guys but, this is an item I don't agree with the code interpetation.

M2005.1
Water heaters shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturers's installation instructions and the requirements of this code.

M2005.3 Electric water heaters.

Electric water heaters shall also be installed in accordance with the applicable provisions of Chapters 34-43. Electrical.

elevating hot water heaters.-garage-water-heater-jpg





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  #23  
Old 12/29/12, 7:38 PM
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Default Re: elevating hot water heaters.

Marcel, you keep referring to the thermostat. What about the actual wire connections to the element?




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  #24  
Old 12/29/12, 7:44 PM
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI's Avatar
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI Marcel R. Cyr, CMI is offline
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Default Re: elevating hot water heaters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sstanczyk View Post
Marcel, you keep referring to the thermostat. What about the actual wire connections to the element?
What about them? If done correctly, should not be any worse then the electrical outlets or switches anyware else. Oh, I forgot, receptacles should be at 4'.
I referred to the first thing that the Code suggested, Follow the Manufactures Instructions. There is the picture minus the maintenace pad that I would recommend.



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  #25  
Old 12/29/12, 7:48 PM
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Default Re: elevating hot water heaters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcyr View Post
What about them? If done correctly, should not be any worse then the electrical outlets or switches anyware else. Oh, I forgot, receptacles should be at 4'.
Factory installation of the element wiring is usually torqued to manufacture specifications. Replacement of the element by a handyman may not meet those standards. Are you saying you have never found a loose wire on a receptacle or switch?

I am required to call out receptacles if they are below 18 inches as well. We are only speaking of the garage at this point.




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  #26  
Old 12/29/12, 8:06 PM
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI's Avatar
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI Marcel R. Cyr, CMI is offline
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Default Re: elevating hot water heaters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sstanczyk View Post
Factory installation of the element wiring is usually torqued to manufacture specifications. Replacement of the element by a handyman may not meet those standards. Are you saying you have never found a loose wire on a receptacle or switch?

I am required to call out receptacles if they are below 18 inches as well. We are only speaking of the garage at this point.
Come on now, don't put words in my mouth. Never said that.

I had electric water heaters in my first home for 15 years and arching or loose connections never became an issue.
You are bringing up the issue of "IF" again.

Should the qualifications of the handyman, homeowner, or the local Contractor be an issue here or are we talking about Home Inspector being overly protective?
We have to at times remember that it is the standard to have work done by a professional, but we all know that dose not happen.
Like I have said before, this one is an interpretation issue and I don't worry about it much, but do recommend maintenance pads, so I would be compliant with that interpretation.
CYA was never a bad thing in this litigious world.




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  #27  
Old 12/29/12, 8:16 PM
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Default Re: elevating hot water heaters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcyr View Post
Come on now, don't put words in my mouth. Never said that.
It was a question, not a statement. If it were a statement, I would have had the quote.

Almost every manufacturer of water heaters has a disclaimer / warning regarding installation that "local codes" must be followed in regards to garage installations. It is obvious that your state, county, township, city, burg, village, cave does not. Install to your heart's desire. With the vast number of jurisdictions I cover, I am lucky that the State overrules all of them and makes it easy. Report anything under 18 inches.




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  #28  
Old 12/29/12, 8:21 PM
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI's Avatar
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI Marcel R. Cyr, CMI is offline
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Default Re: elevating hot water heaters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sstanczyk View Post
It was a question, not a statement. If it were a statement, I would have had the quote.

Almost every manufacturer of water heaters has a disclaimer / warning regarding installation that "local codes" must be followed in regards to garage installations. It is obvious that your state, county, township, city, burg, village, cave does not. Install to your heart's desire. With the vast number of jurisdictions I cover, I am lucky that the State overrules all of them and makes it easy. Report anything under 18 inches.
Around here, I don't think the AHJ gives a hoot anyways.

I still think that the code is ambiguous when it comes to electric water heaters in a garage.



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  #29  
Old 12/30/12, 3:22 PM
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David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40 David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40 is offline
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Default Re: elevating hot water heaters.

What do you do with these types of situations? Call the building code inspector and tell him you think the hot water heaters should be raised up 18 inches over the top of the lawnmower gas tank?

What about a water heater in the house next to an electrical outlet. Which is a source of ignition and which is the source of propellant in this case?

Actually, I would be interested in where 18 inches is considered the line of demarcation between explosive gases and the "safety zone" comes from.

And what is "an unsafe location" for a water heater in Texas?

A missing drain pan and line is considered defective when applicable. Must all water heaters have a drain pan?

You must do what your state law concerning home inspections requires you to do, but who up there is interpreting this stuff?

Are homeowners required by law to correct these deficiencies or is it just a requirement that home inspectors report the deficiency? Are we making people move their ten-year-old water heater, or just advising them of the situation so they can correct it when they get around to replacing it in the next year or two?

Discretion is the better part of valor, and I would hope both inspector and the state licensing board would show some discretion to a homeowner with a water heater that is about at the end of its life expectancy.
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  #30  
Old 12/30/12, 6:08 PM
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Chuck Evans, TREC 7657 Chuck Evans, TREC 7657 is online now
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Default Re: elevating hot water heaters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dandersen View Post
Are homeowners required by law to correct these deficiencies or is it just a requirement that home inspectors report the deficiency? Are we making people move their ten-year-old water heater, or just advising them of the situation so they can correct it when they get around to replacing it in the next year or two?
There's an app, errr, a form for that.

http://www.trec.state.tx.us/pdf/redi...HazRepairs.asp



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