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Structural Inspections Contains discussions about the structural portion of a home inspection. This includes foundations, framing, etc.

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  #1  
Old 2/11/19, 2:08 PM
Joshua LeBeau's Avatar
Joshua LeBeau Joshua LeBeau is offline
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Default Floor Joists Just sitting there.

All the floor joist are notched and sitting on top of a 1"x2" piece of wood that is attached to the center support. Some of the beams are toenailed to the center support but some are not.

Just looking for confirmation that this is a structural hazard and that the joist should be supported with joist hangers along the center support.

Thanks!
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Floor Joists Just sitting there.-2019-1-11-42-jpg   Floor Joists Just sitting there.-2019-1-11-43-jpg  




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  #2  
Old 2/11/19, 3:49 PM
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Larry Kage, CMI Larry Kage, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Floor Joists Just sitting there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlebeau2 View Post
All the floor joist are notched and sitting on top of a 1"x2" piece of wood that is attached to the center support. Some of the beams are toenailed to the center support but some are not.

Just looking for confirmation that this is a structural hazard and that the joist should be supported with joist hangers along the center support.

Thanks!
With what I can see: Some of the connections between the floor joist and beam are inadequate and need repair. Please have a qualified contractor make the repairs as needed before the close of your contingency period.




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  #3  
Old 2/11/19, 4:07 PM
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Marcel R. Cyr, CMI Marcel R. Cyr, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Floor Joists Just sitting there.

Missing a few nails are we?
Make sure to call out for a qualified contractor to repair.



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  #4  
Old 2/11/19, 4:48 PM
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Default Re: Floor Joists Just sitting there.

Thanks guys.




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  #5  
Old 2/11/19, 7:15 PM
Joshua L. Frederick Joshua L. Frederick is online now
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Default Re: Floor Joists Just sitting there.

I'm pretty sure you're allowed to install joists on a 2 x 2 ledger, no?




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  #6  
Old 2/11/19, 7:18 PM
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Larry Kage, CMI Larry Kage, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Floor Joists Just sitting there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrederick View Post
I'm pretty sure you're allowed to install joists on a 2 x 2 ledger, no?

Yes but I believe he said:
Quote:
All the floor joist are notched and sitting on top of a 1"x2" piece of wood that is attached to the center support. Some of the beams are toenailed to the center support but some are not.




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  #7  
Old 2/12/19, 4:23 AM
Joshua L. Frederick Joshua L. Frederick is online now
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Default Re: Floor Joists Just sitting there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkage View Post
Yes but I believe he said:
Yeah, I saw it. I was just saying that 'cause it seemed like the joists "sitting" there was the main point of the post.




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  #8  
Old 2/12/19, 8:55 AM
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Marcel Gratton, CMI Marcel Gratton, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Floor Joists Just sitting there.

A notched joist resting on a ledger board nailed to the beam is a weak connection. Not because its on a ledger board but because of the notch. It could develop a crack which will propagates from the notch in joist weakening its support.
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  #9  
Old 2/12/19, 4:18 PM
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Larry Kage, CMI Larry Kage, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Floor Joists Just sitting there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrederick View Post
Yeah, I saw it. I was just saying that 'cause it seemed like the joists "sitting" there was the main point of the post.
Gotcha....




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  #10  
Old 2/13/19, 5:54 PM
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Default Re: Floor Joists Just sitting there.

I will admit to some confusion here. Yes, I can see that notching a floor joist reduces its effective depth to whatever remains above the notch. My problem is with the notion that the joist and its attendant load can rest on a 2x2 ledger that is not sitting on top of some very substantial structural member without some other substantial manner of attaching the joist to a proper beam, such as a joist hanger.

How is the 2x2 ledger attached to the beam? No means of attachment I can think of would seem to be adequate to support the load placed on a 2x12, 2x8, or even 2x6 beam.

Sorry if I am being dense here. I would welcome any explanation that makes sense.




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  #11  
Old 2/14/19, 12:36 PM
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Marcel R. Cyr, CMI Marcel R. Cyr, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Floor Joists Just sitting there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wogletree View Post
I will admit to some confusion here. Yes, I can see that notching a floor joist reduces its effective depth to whatever remains above the notch. My problem is with the notion that the joist and its attendant load can rest on a 2x2 ledger that is not sitting on top of some very substantial structural member without some other substantial manner of attaching the joist to a proper beam, such as a joist hanger.

How is the 2x2 ledger attached to the beam? No means of attachment I can think of would seem to be adequate to support the load placed on a 2x12, 2x8, or even 2x6 beam.

Sorry if I am being dense here. I would welcome any explanation that makes sense.

Notching a floor tail joist for attachment at the beam support has been a framing standard for a long time.
The IRC calls for a 2"X2" ledger support along with the proper toe nailing of the joist to the beam.
Typically, the ledger is nailed with 3-16d nails directly underneath the floor joist support.
The other accepted method is to provide a built up beam that is bigger in depth of the floor joist to allow the ledger to be nailed under the floor joist without notching them.
Either way is an accepted standard.
The end notching is limited to D4 as stated in the IRC.

Some of the details are provided here in this illustration;
https://www.awc.org/pdf/codes-standa...wOnly-0107.pdf

Hope this helps a bit.



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  #12  
Old 2/14/19, 4:30 PM
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Default Re: Floor Joists Just sitting there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcyr View Post

Notching a floor tail joist for attachment at the beam support has been a framing standard for a long time.
The IRC calls for a 2"X2" ledger support along with the proper toe nailing of the joist to the beam.
Typically, the ledger is nailed with 3-16d nails directly underneath the floor joist support.
The other accepted method is to provide a built up beam that is bigger in depth of the floor joist to allow the ledger to be nailed under the floor joist without notching them.
Either way is an accepted standard.
The end notching is limited to D4 as stated in the IRC.

Some of the details are provided here in this illustration;
https://www.awc.org/pdf/codes-standa...wOnly-0107.pdf

Hope this helps a bit.
Very much so, thanks! So the load at the end of a floor joist can bear on seven 16d nails (assuming 3 in the ledger and two(?) toenailed on each side of the joist). As long as there is not a joint in the subflooring where the joist meets the beam, and as long as any load from above rests on the beam, then I could see that being sufficient for normal interior dwelling loads.




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