Post and Girder

Older home (1947) two posts and a girder look to have been added at some time. Not leaning or sagging. Would you note this? what would your comments be?

According to proper practice the post should be the same size as the beam to transfer the weight to the footing. The footing also should be centered on the post to prevent uneven pressure on the footing. That footing also has too small a foot print for our location.

Looks pretty close to the same size, I can’t see 3d but isn’t the post bigger than the girder slightly? I cant see that being noteworthy…the footing is pretty scare though…are those bricks there. Can’t be too solid made of bricks. Agreed it tiny too…

One thing that jumps out to me, is lack of positive or secure attachment between members. The beam, post and so called base/footing appear to be improperly attached (or not at all). I see a few nails at top; but nothing appears to provide any lateral support.

Kenneth, I see you and I are in the same neck of the wood.
Here in the Carolinas you will see all sorts of pier construction…right down to stacked rocks if you inspect homes that exceed 100 years (I did one last week that was built in 1828.

Lets say the home is 60 years old…no signs of stress, uneven floors etc…just a simply 4x6 post in good condition…then I would simply annotate in the body of the report that type of girder and piers that are present (this is required anyway), there condition and move on.

As to connections… please tell me what connections are used on any interior pier to this day…nada. If you want to recommend straps then that fine.

Quite simply put, I don’t look for trouble nor do I apply ink to paper just to justify my price.

I would comment on a vapor barrier not present, hvac line not properly attached and prior moisture infiltration into the crawl…looks like there was puddling at one time around the pier.

Finally, you did not state anything about if the girder was truly designed for load bearing or simply being used to reduce deflection in the floor…a GC would advise you on that based upon the roof loads coming down and the span of the joist.

regards

Jeff

Thanks all, I noted it in the report but not a summary item. I indicated that may have been added at sometime in the past and may have been an accepted practice then but does not meet current standards. Noted that it appeared to be doing its job, but this was no indication of future performance. Suggested it for an upgrade consideration.

Sounds spot on to me, well written sir.

Good response Jeff. :slight_smile:

Kenneth, why are you suggesting an upgrade?

Based upon what…if its not failing, the condition is good.

I know if your client or the home owner hired me as a GC to evaluate it I would simply state the its fine…other than consider using straps which cost about $1.00 a piece.

I have a set of plans on my desk for a 100 year old home to covert same for commercial use…guess what the piers are (engineer designed)…6x6 post (PT).

Food for thought.

Jeff

Yes, a 6x6x8’ of southern yellow pine is capable of supporting +/- 15,000#.
More than adequate I would say. :slight_smile:

Kenneth, why are you suggesting an upgrade?

Based upon what…if its not failing, the condition is good.

Good point, However I did feel it should be noted

I know if your client or the home owner hired me as a GC to evaluate it I would simply state the its fine…other than consider using straps which cost about $1.00 a piece.

Fine with that, an upgrade can be $1 or $1000. As a GC its your call on what to upgrade and how much it will cost.

I have a set of plans on my desk for a 100 year old home to covert same for commercial use…guess what the piers are (engineer designed)…6x6 post (PT).

Never had a problem with the 6x6, my concerns were 1. connection to girder, 2 connection to footing, 3 Footing.

Some more thoughts. That engineered 6x6 also has a properly sized footing, and its anchored.

Food for thought.

The anchorage on the plans I have is no different that what you have in place already…nothing else.

Im not sure the verbiage that you used on the report I just know when I see the word “upgrade” it throws red flags all over the place…as to your feelings that it should be noted… I have no problem with that simply because in our NC SOP it specifically states "Opinions expressed by licensees shall only be based on their education, experience, and honest convictions."

This is why no two reports ever look the same…I am glad that this is in our SOP.

I am still curious if the the purpose of the girder…obviously you were there and we are only looking at a few select pictures however I find it curious that the girder has no end point in picture 2, the size of the footing as you pointed out…that I why I suspect it is being used to simply reduce deflection.

I see one block and brick pier in one of your pictures…were there more or was the wood beam and post that you show the only one?

The exterior wall also looks like it had no piers…was that a single wythe brick wall as well…what year was the home built? I am guessing 40-50’s…just curious.

Hey all is good as I have a GC who will make repairs for $4.

Seriously, I think that as you suspected this was added to help with bouncing. it was the only support of this type. all the others were cmu and brick. However it was near the center of the home, but did not extend the length of the home only one girder and two piers.

Yep as I said its a 1947 home.

Guess I am/was sturggling with a way to say "hey this is working but its not exactly right, not a defect. Wanting to call it out but not make a big issue of it. Perhaps for information only is better the upgrade.

With these older homes it seems to be a struggle to balance these things. Like the vapor barrier you noted none was presnent, but the home has never had one and it seems to be working with out one, or the insulation that was not there, never was.

I understand… when I started looking at the pics I really thought it was simply to reduce deflection…not sure the size of the joist but rule of thumb is that a 2x8 will span 12 feet; 2x10 span around 14 - 15 feet depending on species.

If those joist were around 12 ft and there is no load points being transferred over that area then I would simply not that it appears (there is that nasty word) to be a post beam support used to reduce deflection.

Many of the old homes here in the Carolinas are fine other than downspouts that are not extended which over a period of time cause foundation cracks from the expansive soils that we have here.

I would only suggest that next time take a tape measure with you and when you come across this again (and you will), check the size of the joist, their spacing and their length…this will give you some sort of ideal on which way to call it.

regard

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, my report was for training purposes. Sometime I tend to overthink or read too much into something. Like this one, my first thought was thats not right then I thought well its ok as its working and this is an old home, then I thought but what if it fails…

Yep this house had water issues at one time. A drain was installed along the front and sides in the crawlspace still had some signs of water penetration along the front wall

any way thanks for the input that’s what I’m here for to listen, learn and exhange.