These ceiling joists were twisting badly. :shock:
What would be the proper repair? Metal connectors to the top plate? Blocking?
Positioning and connecting them to the side of the rafters is the best construction method by triangulating the roof and ceiling.
If some bracing was attached perpendicular to and on top of the ceiling joists and tight to the bottom of the rafter, that could help the ceiling joist from tipping over some.
I agree with Larry, and personally, I think the workmanship in your pictures is crap. It would throw up red flags for me, and I’d be searching for the root cause of the problem. My ‘spidey sense’ tells me theres a bigger problem in the works. I’d be willing to bet that someone screwed up, and is not shown in the plans that way, and that is how they compensated for it. I would opt for installing blocking, as opposed to metal connectors.
Was there a plywood walking surface here? If not, I’d be suprised that the joists didn’t just fall over. Everyone’s a “Carpenter”
Who was he? Mr. Magoo? :shock:
Jeez… reminds me of your photo’s in post #1. 
No wonder he sold/is selling. 
Seems you may be getting closer to the ‘root’ cause.
No decking. I walked out a little on the structure and was real uneasy about it.
Hey Joe,
As other have said, crap workmanship…as far as twisting, no need for metal ties or plates…a simple, fast and inexpensive fix is to tie all the joist together with a 1x4x___ positioning same near the rafters. Also, you may want to check the nailing of same, its hard to tell but it looks like they simply nailed the butt end of the joist and that was it.
Anyway, such repairs can be made in less than 10 minutes.
Not good…suppose to be in the middle third… the code official should have caught that one…but then again so many of them don’t or won’t go into crawls unless they have to.
Joe,
Normally I would agree with what Jeffrey stated (and Larry before him), but without more info, I’m not sure I would endorse that corrective action. Even at 400% zoom, I cannot tell the method of attachment. I can only assume the rafters were toenailed, but cannot see evidence of that. Do you have a wider angle photo of the attic?
And before anyone says it, no, I am not trying to give definative advice based upon a photo. This type of conversation, trading thoughts, is what helps keep the mind sharp. It’s all about education
Glad you made it out of there without incident.
Jeff
This picture expains everything and I think I got it… They put up the ceiling joists first to site in the pier. But then some jerk added the drywall and everything got messed up.
With a stick framed roof like that my concern would be with rafter spread. Were collar ties in place, ridge beam support by load bearing members to foundation?
Honestly I should have taken more photos. I’ve forgotten many of the details now. I assume ties were there and I know there were some vertical braces supporting the ridge beam. I referred it out and hope that settles it.
I couldn’t get to the ends to check how they were fastened because there wasn’t much to hold onto and I felt uneasy about walking on that shaky structure. I suppose they were toe nailed.
Joe,
I think “Maxwell Smart said it best…missed it by that much!”
The pictures of the laminate beam in the crawl space, what a joke. I can’t believe that mistake was missed, and/or left uncorrected. Lots of folks had the chance to catch that mistake, and apparently didn’t.
With the roof rafters and the beam conditions you have questioned, it kind of makes you wonder what else might be hidden.
I don’t think anyone was purposely hiding anything except their lack of knowlege in construction methods. I would not feel comfortable with this. Was this project issued a permit? Just curious…
I said the entire roof structure should be evaluated because I couldn’t see the vast majority of it because it was hidden by blown insulation.
The ceiling joist are preventing rafter spread, collar ties are for uplift.
Obviously the rafters should have been fastened next to the CJ’s but there are times when that is not going to happen (spacing on center, bastard / irregular pitches, etc.). In those takes the CJ, is tied together by a rimboard / bandboard and often a top plate on same with your rafter layout as needed.
I seriously doubt that any framing member is properly nailed as required.
I’m not much of a framer myself Jeff, but I can visualize what you are saying about the rimboard. That would definitely tie it all together. The CJ’s and rafters appear to have the same centers and the pitch appears normal. Can you think of any circumstances that the Cj’s and rafters were not tied together?
Gordon,
I broke in the construction business back in 1980 exclusively framing…every (good) framer I know and worked with tied them together except when the spacing was changed…and as I said earlier we would (still do) rim board them, except in cases where we cantilever the joist, but even then we tie them together with 1x4 or 2x4 (we call them rat runs…lol). Seldom do you block between them simply because its not necessary when utilizing the method I stated above. (work quicker and smarter)
I simply think that it was a case where a person decided to do the work themselves or hire some jack-leg crew that was flying by the seat of their pants.
I am pretty anal about framing…I insist that studs, cj’s and rafter all line up. It not only is structurally better but it makes it easier for my other trades to do clean and neat work thereafter. When I started in construction a carpenter could do virtually every phase of construction (except hvac, electrical and plumbing) and do it very well, unfortunately today because of track building and much of the work is done by immigrants, it is next to impossible to find such a craftsman…everything is subbed out…I know a guy who makes a living by simply caulking trim for Ryan Homes (their miter joints are pretty pathetic).
I pretty much equate crappy work to shortcuts (or lack of knowledge) which means their is probably more wrong than meets the eye.
Jeff
Joe,
That roof was pretty steep, by chance was it a mansard roof?
Oh by the way… I found the framing crew who did that roof…you can see their work here. (cover page)lol
Talk about crappy work…