12 Year Old creates controversy on OAHI site

Local Inspection Issues Canadian Home Inspectors
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Dave.Bottoms**

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Posted - 06/30/2006 : 12:32:51 http://www.abc4.com/local_news/local_headlines/story.aspx?content_id=00544C93-0332-4CA0-ADD0-88479DC7CBF5

**12-year old boy becomes certified home inspector

**LAST UPDATE: 6/29/2006 4:52:55 PM

Casey Larsen is one of Utah’s certified home inspectors; he is also still in junior high.

Larsen became a qualified home inspector after passing two online tests posted by a company called Nachi, where individuals can pay a small fee, take a simple test, and then, be registered online as an available inspector.

In Utah, there are no regulations that home inspectors must meet, and that worries several Utah home buyers who turn to inspectors for a final peace of mind before purchasing a home.

Casey’s father, Fred Larsen, a more experienced home inspector who is accredited by a well respected organization, says it’s giving people in his industry a bad name.

“It’s an area they can go in and target people that want to get into their own businesses,” he says. “It’s a travesty.”

Everything Casey needed to know to pass the online test, he read in a small book and learned in his school sciences classes. Right now Casey’s gold accredited certificate isn’t being used, so he can concentrate being a 12 year-old for awhile.

                                                                                                                     **[Raymond.Wand](http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:openWindow3%28%27pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=2038%27%29)**
            
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Posted - 06/30/2006 : 14:13:25 So we have a father fraudulently using his son to justify the fathers agenda and instilling in his son that lying is okay? Perhaps the school board and the Childrens Aid Society should be called into invesitage what surely is a father who thinks its okay to use his son in deceitful activities.

Just another view.

Raymond Wand RHI/CHI
Alton, ON **

Wayne.Christopher**

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Posted - 06/30/2006 : 16:42:26 Ray,
Deception can work both ways. I’d say the guy used his son to and try prove a point…and maybe he’ll succeed…it’s being/was commented on, for and against, on both this and the Canuck forum that I know of, and who knows maybe state side too. Besides how do we know there was deception on the father’s part?
Maybe the kid was truthfull and NACHI accepted him anyway. Is anyone in tight enough with Nick that he would tell? I doubt it.
As you say…Just another view.
Cheers
Wayne Christopher RHI http://www.oahi.com/members/cafe/icon_go_up.gif **

Dave.Bottoms**

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Posted - 06/30/2006 : 17:15:23 [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=1]quote:Originally posted by Raymond.Wand

So we have a father fraudulently using his son to justify the fathers agenda and instilling in his son that lying is okay? Perhaps the school board and the Childrens Aid Society should be called into invesitage what surely is a father who thinks its okay to use his son in deceitful activities.

Just another view.

Raymond Wand RHI/CHI
Alton, ON
LOL… now that’s gotta be the most ridiculous excuse I’ve ever heard for anything, EVER! I had to pick my arse up off the floor after reading that one. Man, you must have gotten the delux scrub and wax when you went through Nick’s online 24-hour drive-through brainwash.

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Thanks for the laugh, have a nice weekend.

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[/size][/FONT] Edited by - Dave.Bottoms on 06/30/2006 20:32:52 http://www.oahi.com/members/cafe/icon_go_up.gif **

Raymond.Wand**

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Posted - 06/30/2006 : 17:38:04 Wayne,

Yes it is generating much debate. But on the other hand just because someone did or did not pass a test is no assurance of quality or an assurance of competence. Just as there are good Engineers there are also bad ones, either ethically bankrupt or incompetent. So to do we find the same concerns with home inspectors. Ashi has them, Oahi has them, Nachi has them, BCIPI has them…

Turns out the father is a P2P franchise, maybe another clever marketing scheme by P2P eh? :wink:

This story sends a very strong message as to why licencing is the only answer. But even then there is no assurance of competence in the field only that all meet the lowest common denominator on a test.

Regards,
Raymond Wand RHI/CHI
Alton, ON http://www.oahi.com/members/cafe/icon_go_up.gif **

Dave.Bottoms**

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Posted - 06/30/2006 : 18:22:39 [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=1]quote:Originally posted by Raymond.Wand

This story sends a very strong message as to why licencing is the only answer. But even then there is no assurance of competence in the field only that all meet the lowest common denominator on a test.

Regards,
Raymond Wand RHI/CHI
Alton, ON
Or simply banning NACHI from watering down the profession here in Canada. That would do the trick also. I do agree, however, that NACHI represents the lowest common denominator.

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Dave.Bottoms

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Posted - 06/30/2006 : 19:03:45 Just think Ray, you can now say you share the same professional home inspector accreditation as a 12-yr-old from Utah. I bet you’ll both be the talk of the playground come recess time. LOL, LOL, LOL…

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                                                             Edited by - Dave.Bottoms on 06/30/2006  19:04:17                                                                 [http://www.oahi.com/members/cafe/icon_go_up.gif](http://www.oahi.com/members/cafe/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=297#top)

Raymond.Wand

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Posted - 06/30/2006 : 19:28:51 I thought this maybe of interest.

Professional certification -
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search A professional certification, trade certification, or professional designation often called simply certification or qualification is a designation earned by a person to certify that he is qualified to perform a job. Certification indicates that the individual has a specific set of knowledge, skills, or abilitiesin the view of the certifying body. Professional certifications are awarded by professional bodies and corporations. The difference between licensure and certification is licensure is required by law, whereas certification is generally voluntary. Sometimes the word certification is used for licensure.

People become certified through training and/or passing an exam. Individuals often advertise their status by appending the certification abbreviation to their name (e.g. “Jane Doe, RHCE”). Strictly speaking, most certifications do not grant post-nominals and it is usually the professional certifications that do.
Certifications may be perpetual, may need to be renewed periodically, or may be valid for a specific period of time (e.g. the life-time of the product upon which the individual is certified). Although it is more common in regard to licensure, sometimes as part or whole of the renewal of an individual’s certification, the individual must show evidence of continual learning — often termed continuing education — or earning continuing education units (CEU).

Certifications are offered through a certification body. This is usually a business organization, and sometimes a professional body. Sometimes, the organization’s business is directly related to the certification, as in a software firm that certifies individuals as competent to use its products. In other cases, an organization (often a not-for-profit organization) exists wholly, or in large part, to offer a particular certification. Whatever its nature, the certifying body determines the policies of the certification program. Potential consumers of a certification wish to understand the nature of the certifying body and the certification process. An individual who bears a designation but appears unable to perform competently is said to be a paper tiger because their resume suggests that they are more effective than they actually are.

Certifications are very common in industry, and in particular the computer industry.

above is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_certification

Raymond Wand RHI/CHI
Alton, ON
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Raymond.Wand**

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Posted - 06/30/2006 : 19:52:44 Fwiw and just to be factual.

Today ABC4 voluntarily chose to pull the story and remove it from their website.

Raymond Wand RHI/CHI
Alton, ON http://www.oahi.com/members/cafe/icon_go_up.gif **

Dave.Bottoms**

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Posted - 06/30/2006 : 20:30:01 [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=1]quote:Originally posted by Raymond.Wand

Fwiw and just to be factual.

Today ABC4 voluntarily chose to pull the story and remove it from their website.

Raymond Wand RHI/CHI
Alton, ON
LOL… yeah, voluntary. That means Nick threatened them with one of his infamous lawsuits. He’s done it so often that everyone expects a story to get hidden within a few days of its release. Scaring people into hiding the truth doesn’t change the truth.

Nick can make them pull the story, but he can’t change the fact that children can get certified as professional home inspectors with his company. And neither can your encyclopedia definitions, so give it a rest.

Hey, do you remember when Arnold the pig from “Green Acres” got certified by NACHI? Or how about that investigative reporter who stated, clearly, that he knew NOTHING about inspecting houses? Or that dog, remember when he got certified? You and your Boss down south keep some good company Ray. Best of luck helping Nick get rich.

I’m still laughing at your first excuse. Again, have a good weekend.[/size][/FONT] http://www.oahi.com/members/cafe/icon_go_up.gif

Raymond.Wand

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Posted - 06/30/2006 : 20:58:30 Do I detect a note of sourness or sarcasm? I thought this was going to be an informative discussion with factual info, instead you seem to want to lower the level.

Your statement that I am making Nick rich has no bearing on any of this and your statement is unfounded as are the other comments which are subjective.

Raymond Wand RHI/CHI
Alton, ON

2

Just a short test here — find the smartest person that you can not in the HI profession or a related field and have them take the test.

If you have a kid – have him or her take the test. Lets see how good people are or how bad the test is

The NACHI stats say a very high % of failures

– Lets not burn too much gas on this one – we have other things to do

rlb

3

The guy doing all the griping about Nachi in the post above can’t even move beyond Associate Inspector to RHI, he has been stuck in the rut of Associate for over 8 years! The minimum by-law requirement states that members must move up within 3 years! I guess if you can’t pass the muster in your own professional association the best way to avert embarrassment of your own lack of performance and abilities and qualifications is to fault someone elses credentials. Nice!

4

The latest installment. Don’t you just love it when he actually posts a link to NACHI?

Dave.Bottoms

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Posted - 07/01/2006 : 01:19:36

Then please allow me to retrack that statement about you helping Nick get rich. It’s a fact, but if it upsets you I’m happy to take it back.

Why is it you and Cook Sr spend day in and day out on Nick’s U.S. forum attacking Canadian home inspectors and Canadian HI associations (OAHI, CAHPI, Bill Mullen and others), yet when one of the most damaging home inspector stories ever to be exposed by the media hits, you’re both quiet as little lambs over there? Well, at least on the public side. I know you guys are clucking up a storm on the members-only section. My favourtie comment is that it was proof of what a GOOD test they have, since it must be written really “good” to be comprehensible to 12-year olds. My God, that one’s a gem.

WHAT’S IMPORTANT:
No matter what I or anyone else says, or what lame excuses are offered, the bottom line is that we have a U.S. company selling professional home inspector accreditations to 12-yr-old kids. That damages the credibility of our entire profession. Any inspector who chooses to belong to that company is aiding and abetting this scam and should really consider if they want to share their professional accreditation with children. That’s it, nothing more. http://www.oahi.com/members/cafe/icon_go_up.gif **

Dave.Bottoms**

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Posted - 07/01/2006 : 01:27:04

Oops, I stand corrected. I see you have now posted a copy of this thread, from OAHI’s private members-only forum no less, to your boss’s site:

http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5764

LOL… What’s wrong, can’t take the heat without your little sycophant minions around to pat you on the back? Gotta run back to your U.S. site where Nick keeps you nice and warm and safe, eh?

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                                                             [http://www.oahi.com/members/cafe/icon_go_up.gif](http://www.oahi.com/members/cafe/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=297#top)

Raymond.Wand

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Posted - 07/01/2006 : 07:46:48

How many times have you failed the exam today?

You seem to have an inexhaustable rage. I mean after all you haven’t moved up the ranks in over 8 years to RHI. You are still in the Associate level. How can you critize anyone when you can’t even meet the level of competence yourself? Having trouble meeting the bar are you?

Thank you for posting the link to the Nachi discussion there are some good views there.

I think you had better read the web forum policy for the Cafe before you go much further cause I can see your animosities are coming to the front.

As to damaging the credibility of the profession you really shouldn’t be calling the kettle black after all we all know what you are capable of based on your previous posts and actions.

Raymond Wand RHI/CHI
Alton, ON

5

Unbelievable, are you telling me that Mr. Dave Bottoms has failed NACHI’s entrance exam several times.

Priceless…

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Then a “must be at least 21” to join should help.

7

He suffers from multiple personality disorder so I am sure he took the test under several different names. Apparently they all failed. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

8

Ooooops here we go again. I have had my posts removed by the CAFE forum administrator. I’ll let you all know what excuse they send me in the email for removing the posts. Good thing I kept copies of the entire thread and posted it here for proof that I have not broken any rules.
Here are the rules for your perusal. Can you spot the infringement?
http://www.oahi.com/members/regulations/WEBsiteadminpolicies10_04.pdf

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Lynda Lalich

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Posted - 07/01/2006 : 08:40:08 http://www.oahi.com/members/cafe/icon_profile.gif http://www.oahi.com/members/cafe/icon_reply_topic.gif

This thread has been removed. Mr. Wand you will be receiving a private email in the near future.
Lynda Lalich
Forum Administrator

9

Poor Dave B he has to sneak around to get information from the NACHI site he has done this continualsly over the years.
He as many in OAHI do not follow the OAHI rules .
He talks about Raymond posting information here . He has done this continually himself and when He had a free membership to NACHI he gave his Pass word to Mr. Bill Mullen so he could come into the private members section to see what is going on .
Mr Mullen and Mr Bottom have continued to bad mouth NACHI Nick and some members continually .
Dave accuses me of Bad mouthing OAHI (Wrong ) actually I like OAHI and most of its members.
The reason I left is because I saw how the BOD treated the membership and did not follow the rules , all I have asked for is to have these people follow the rules . Example ( Dave had three years )to complete 100 inspections He has been an associate fro 8 years and still has not been able to complete the next step to be an RHI.
This is the person who is editor of THE CANADIAN HOME INSPECTOR .
Strange and very disappointing that an editor is not smart enough to pass an exam .( Rules )(
b) “Associate Members”, previously known as “Provisional Members” shall be persons who:
(1) complete Baseline Accreditation qualification requirements described in Paragraph 1 of Article 4, and
(2) obtain OAHI approved insurance coverage, as described in Article 5, and
(3) hold Associate Member status for a period not to exceed 3 years. Associate Members have restricted membership privileges, no voting rights, but are entitled to hold themselves out as an “Associate Member” of the Ontario Association of Home Inspectors. )
He also advertised the 12 year old that was on TV that I posted On the NACHI site.
Roy Cooke sr

Re: 12 Year Old creates controversy on OAHI site

The latest installment. Don’t you just love it when he actually posts a link to NACHI?

Dave.Bottoms

157 Posts

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Posted - 07/01/2006 : 01:19:36

Then please allow me to retrack that statement about you helping Nick get rich. It’s a fact, but if it upsets you I’m happy to take it back.

Why is it you and Cook Sr spend day in and day out on Nick’s U.S. forum attacking Canadian home inspectors and Canadian HI associations (OAHI, CAHPI, Bill Mullen and others), yet when one of the most damaging home inspector stories ever to be exposed by the media hits, you’re both quiet as little lambs over there? Well, at least on the public side. I know you guys are clucking up a storm on the members-only section. My favorite comment is that it was proof of what a GOOD test they have, since it must be written really “good” to be comprehensible to 12-year olds. My God, that one’s a gem.

The more I hear,
the more I see!
NACHI is the one for me !
Roy Cooke R.H.I. Royshomeinspection.com CAHPI-ON
A HAPPY NACHI MEMBER,… More find this out ever day!

Remember Whistler http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4935

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Gee I can see trouble comming for OAHI .
I had difficulty with them and they spent over $35,000:00 of the members money and still lost . I then went after them for some of my expenses and they paid me $1,00:00 to have me drop my court case .
Gee they must be slow learners. Roy Cooke Sr
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11

Well what I would like to know is how does OAHI which is CAHPI-Ontario intend to keep its end of the bargain with National Certification when we see wanton abuse of power.

There is ample evidence indicating that OAHI is attempting to weed out and suspend due process in order to intimidate its members particularly those that hold dual memberships. They are without a hearing imposing fines and holding up membership upgrades. OAHI must I repeat must full due process. Due process in this case and per the by-laws that members are entitled to a hearing. You CANNOT impose fines or any other manner of penalty without a hearing. If this is the case your rights are being abused. It also calls into question the ability of OAHI National Certification process to remain neutral and without bias. Clearly this does not appear to be the case.

I would really like to hear Claudes explanation about the abuse of due process by a body that is a signatory to CAHPI and the National. Clearly there is a witch hunt and in the process peoples rights are being abused if you are a member of a competing association and also a member of OAHI you will feel the inequality and the abuse of power.

12

http://www.nachi.org/aboutexam.htm

And National Statistics.
http://exams.nachi.org/stats.php

These facts and figures have been reviewed by an independent party.

The fact is these animals and children and malcontents never actually intend to inspect, so the system seems to work. Any arguement that Nachi is inferior is not playing with a full deck. I see engineers as members, I see Ashi members, I see OAHI members, I see others. How can anyone say that Nachi members are inferior? Where is the proof, where are all the consumer complaints, where is all the case law dealing with Nachi inspectors…??
%between%

13

Good Luck Claude has the habit of disappearing when the questions get asked that he does not want to answer.
I do not think we can ever get equal treatment from this group of self appointed directors that no one knows who they are…
He knows better then to rock the boat, He might fall out.

The more I hear,
the more I see!
NACHI is the one for me !
Roy Cooke R.H.I. Royshomeinspection.com
A HAPPY NACHI MEMBER,… More find this out ever day!

Remember Whistler http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4935

14

**I am still waiting for a logical well reasoned explanation how Nachi is watering down the profession here in Canada. What appears to happening is that OAHI along with CAHPI is watering down the profession by employing discriminatory policies and actions! So lets tell it like it is eh!

Gee I thought the only thing that damages the credibility of the entire profession is an inspector who has no credibility by making erroneous statements and or running around making threats. I guess the OAHI member really does assist with degredation of the profession.

**Any inspector who chooses to belong to an association that does not follow its own by-laws and knowingly breaks its own rules is aiding and abetting this scam and should really consider if they want to share their professional accreditation with someone who exmplifies poor ethical skills. That’s it, nothing more. :wink:

15

For 4 years in a row, PITI has held a 2.5 day HI educational seminar in the Kansas City area. It has pulled in aout 55-65 inspectors each time. As part of the seminar, we’ve held an optional 3 hour study session for people wanting to take a state licensing exam like in Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, Illinois, Indiana, etc. OR for people wanting to go out and take the NHIE or NAHI CRI Exam. These all cost money up front and many people that haven’t taken a test in years want to get prepared for what they will be facing.

In each seminar we’ve had 15-20 people take the “Test Taking Study Aid” session to prepare for one of the above mentioned tests. We’ve had real good luck, and that I am aware of only 4 people have ended up failing the respective test they were taking on their 1st try. Most of our attendees tell us the **NHIE **was a piece of cake after our short study session.

Our main study guide for the exam has been the NACHI online test questions. So in my opinion, I would regard the 12 year old kid story as just exactly that - a story.

16

I agree with you Dan. The father must have taken the exam and put his sons name on the application and affidavit. Anyway you slice it, it is still fraud, fraud and more fraud.

I wonder If Nachi has a legal recourse if this guy actually sent in the application along with the signed affidavit.

17

Same thing happened in all the HI groups in the past. THe old story about how somebodies dog got admitted to …

Well guess what guys?? Somebody filled out the app, signed it, put a check or credit card inside AND mailed it. SO did the dog really join???

Thats why groups like ASHI, NAHI, etc have learned over the years and today wants to see more proof there is a living breathing human there, like ASHI wants a copy of your DL and NAHI wants you to sign in front of a notarty, etc. Its just forward progress. ALL of the groups have had dogs, pigs, kids, etc signed up by other associations members over the years.

18

Dan,

The real point that you are making is…

that it requires one to commit a fraud to join NACHI… and anyone who joins NACHI by fraud isn’t a member… even if the fraud results in us believing so for a time. Just like someone who commits a fraud to get into a bar doesn’t magically become 21 years of age just because his/her fraud succeeded.

HOWEVER… and this is a super “HOWEVER”… it takes no fraud for a 96 year old blind woman to join ASHI legitimately because all it takes to join ASHI (LEGITIMATELY) is cash. ASHI is a known diploma mill with absolutley no entrance requiremets http://www.ashi.org/inspectors/join/candidate_application1.htm

A 96 year old blind woman who knows nothing of inspections can join both associations… but here is the point:

She can join ASHI legitimately… but would have to commit fraud to join NACHI.

This is the difference between NACHI which has http://www.nachi.org/membership.htm for entrance requirements and ASHI (a text book diploma mill) which has no entrance requirements: http://www.ashi.org/inspectors/join/candidate_application1.htm

I cannot be accused of ASHI bashing with this post as I referenced ASHI’s own website… if the shoe fits it isn’t bashing.

19

Any other association should not have the slightest concern about this article because even with an admittance exam they cannot keep out the rift raft.

I guess they don’t teach ethics at the P2P home inspection course any more then they teach good parenting skills.

20

Does anyone find it strange that there is much adoo about this story and similar stories in the past, but those using this as fodder against Nachi never tell you of the horror stories of how their own associations are run? Once you are in and pay your fee you will most likely be discriminated against, the by-laws will be broken, you will be intimidated, fined without a hearing or any form of due process. If these are the type of stories these malcontents have to find to try and discredit maybe they should start talking about the irregularities behind the proverbial closed doors. But why would they reveal the really good stories when they know they will be treated like a Pariah?

Don’t you like a good rounded bunch of hyocrites?