Go Back   InterNACHI Inspection Forum > Local Inspection Issues > Canadian Home Inspectors

Notices

Canadian Home Inspectors This is a place for Canadian InterNACHI inspectors and other home inspectors in Canada to discuss local home inspection topics.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 6/17/13, 6:22 AM
Stephan Tremblay, CMI's Avatar
Stephan Tremblay, CMI Stephan Tremblay, CMI is offline
Certified Master Inspector
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 865
Default Home Inspector Licensing in Ontario? Look South!

One of many examples of how licensing doesn't do anything productive. In most cases so many hands are in the jar, the inspectors are left watching from afar.

https://www.nachi.org/forum/f14/after...ml#post1053506


Stay safe,
Reply With Quote
Need a home inspection in Newfoundland and Labrador? Check out InterNACHI's listing of Newfoundland and Labrador certified home inspectors. Or, find a home inspector anywhere in the world with our inspection search engine.
  #2  
Old 6/17/13, 11:16 AM
kwood kwood is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sault Ste Marie ON
Posts: 11,820
Please Note: kwood is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Home Inspector Licensing in Ontario? Look South!

You don't have to look South Stephan all you need to do is look West or East of Ontario.

Last edited by kwood; 6/22/13 at 5:38 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 6/17/13, 11:24 AM
Roy D. Cooke, Sr's Avatar
Roy D. Cooke, Sr Roy D. Cooke, Sr is offline
Certified Professional Inspector (CPI)
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Brighton, ON
Posts: 25,854
Default Re: Home Inspector Licensing in Ontario? Look South!

I do hope our Ontario members keep in touch with their local MPP .
If they know you personally then you have a better chance of them listening to you .
Please do write or e-mail your thoughts and ideas ... Roy
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 6/17/13, 11:59 AM
kwood kwood is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sault Ste Marie ON
Posts: 11,820
Please Note: kwood is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Home Inspector Licensing in Ontario? Look South!

I have known the Orazietti Family including David but it did not make a difference when the City saw a chance to make big money.
Thing is what fails after is the inexperience come along and suffer the consequences.
MPP David has done allot of good for the City and is learning from his mistakes.
That is what makes a good Leader.
I have also done Inspections for the family who are into Real Estate.
Some will not have heard about Bill Orazietti but he was a close friend of me when I was growing up.
Some learn from mistakes while others just cover it up and hope it will go away.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 6/17/13, 1:08 PM
Leonard Inkster, CMI's Avatar
Leonard Inkster, CMI Leonard Inkster, CMI is online now
Certified Master Inspector ®
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Niagara Falls, ON
Posts: 3,708
Send a message via Skype™ to linkster
Default Re: Home Inspector Licensing in Ontario? Look South!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcooke View Post
I do hope our Ontario members keep in touch with their local MPP .
If they know you personally then you have a better chance of them listening to you .
Please do write or e-mail your thoughts and ideas ... Roy
Have already done so Roy. This is really god advice, but make sure the comments are positive for the profession and the public as a whole and not just person attacks on how the profession has been run to date. MPP's like to be given solutions, not problems.

JMO




Future Proof Property Inspections Inc.

Leonard Inkster, CMI, CITP, CCHI, CPI, IAC2

Any information posted by me on this site should be considered a personal opinion.

Web: http://fppi.ca
Mail: leni@fppi.ca

"Every man always has handy a dozen glib little reasons why he is right not to sacrifice himself..." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 6/17/13, 1:15 PM
Roy D. Cooke, Sr's Avatar
Roy D. Cooke, Sr Roy D. Cooke, Sr is offline
Certified Professional Inspector (CPI)
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Brighton, ON
Posts: 25,854
Default Re: Home Inspector Licensing in Ontario? Look South!

Quote:
Originally Posted by linkster View Post
Have already done so Roy. This is really god advice, but make sure the comments are positive for the profession and the public as a whole and not just person attacks on how the profession has been run to date. MPP's like to be given solutions, not problems.

JMO
I have tried constantly and will continue to help all and help our Profession .
Most Homies also do the same thing.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 6/17/13, 1:49 PM
James H. Bushart James H. Bushart is offline
Certified Professional Inspector (CPI)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 24,985
Default Re: Home Inspector Licensing in Ontario? Look South!

Quote:
Originally Posted by linkster View Post
Have already done so Roy. This is really god advice, but make sure the comments are positive for the profession and the public as a whole and not just person attacks on how the profession has been run to date. MPP's like to be given solutions, not problems.

JMO
Before offering "solutions" ... you should first define the problem you are proposing to solve.

Aside from some of the sensationalized media reports designed for manipulating the public and their legislators that represent two or three episodes of bad home inspections ... where are the actual statistics that reflect (1) how many homes have been sold in the past 36 months, (2) how many of those homes were inspected prior to purchase, and (3) how many of those home inspections were unsatisfactory?

Until you have that actual number ... you are left to deal with the hyperbole of those who sell the products and services that they intend to mandate by law ... using their own manipulative spin on "how bad" things are and how "necessary" their proposed law is in protecting these two or three people.

There is no record of any improvement in the quality of home inspections having been accomplished with the passage of any licensing law in the U.S. To the contrary, the Ohio Real Estate Commission's study of several years ago showed just the opposite ... that the quality of inspections remained consistent after laws were passed and were not different than in states that had no licensing laws.

When you remove from those shouting for legislation (1) those who sell the education and tests that are being proposed for required use, (2) those who already possess the training and experience that they propose to be a "minimum standard" that all of their competitors must reach prior to being able to compete against them, and (3) those who aspire to sit on the governing boards and panels ... you find virtually no one left to support the law.

Particularly noteworthy is the absence of the consumer ... or any organized consumer advocacy group ... even arguing for the need of any such regulation (aside from the two or three who volunteered to participate with the evening news stories).

Licensing solves nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 6/17/13, 4:03 PM
Douglas Cossar, CMI. NHI's Avatar
Douglas Cossar, CMI. NHI Douglas Cossar, CMI. NHI is online now
Certified Master Inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby, On
Posts: 2,920
Default Re: Home Inspector Licensing in Ontario? Look South!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbushart View Post
Before offering "solutions" ... you should first define the problem you are proposing to solve.

Aside from some of the sensationalized media reports designed for manipulating the public and their legislators that represent two or three episodes of bad home inspections ... where are the actual statistics that reflect (1) how many homes have been sold in the past 36 months, (2) how many of those homes were inspected prior to purchase, and (3) how many of those home inspections were unsatisfactory?

Until you have that actual number ... you are left to deal with the hyperbole of those who sell the products and services that they intend to mandate by law ... using their own manipulative spin on "how bad" things are and how "necessary" their proposed law is in protecting these two or three people.

There is no record of any improvement in the quality of home inspections having been accomplished with the passage of any licensing law in the U.S. To the contrary, the Ohio Real Estate Commission's study of several years ago showed just the opposite ... that the quality of inspections remained consistent after laws were passed and were not different than in states that had no licensing laws.

When you remove from those shouting for legislation (1) those who sell the education and tests that are being proposed for required use, (2) those who already possess the training and experience that they propose to be a "minimum standard" that all of their competitors must reach prior to being able to compete against them, and (3) those who aspire to sit on the governing boards and panels ... you find virtually no one left to support the law.

Particularly noteworthy is the absence of the consumer ... or any organized consumer advocacy group ... even arguing for the need of any such regulation (aside from the two or three who volunteered to participate with the evening news stories).

Licensing solves nothing.
Exactly.... Well said JB
OMG I think Kevin might be person #3 (above)


Cheers



Doug Cossar
InterNachi Lifetime Member
Certified Master Inspector
National Home Inspector NHICC00503
905-213 7739
Retired and living the dream!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 6/17/13, 6:17 PM
kwood kwood is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sault Ste Marie ON
Posts: 11,820
Please Note: kwood is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Home Inspector Licensing in Ontario? Look South!

James and I have been fighting for what is right all along Doug and the e-mails I receive from the US overshadow any little groups that come along and decide to change the course of History. What has just happened proves what you have no clue about, so it is best you also pock into other peoples business and not take jabs at me before the Consumer Services Meeting.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 6/18/13, 12:35 PM
Leonard Inkster, CMI's Avatar
Leonard Inkster, CMI Leonard Inkster, CMI is online now
Certified Master Inspector ®
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Niagara Falls, ON
Posts: 3,708
Send a message via Skype™ to linkster
Default Re: Home Inspector Licensing in Ontario? Look South!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbushart View Post
Before offering "solutions" ... you should first define the problem you are proposing to solve.

Aside from some of the sensationalized media reports designed for manipulating the public and their legislators that represent two or three episodes of bad home inspections ... where are the actual statistics that reflect (1) how many homes have been sold in the past 36 months, (2) how many of those homes were inspected prior to purchase, and (3) how many of those home inspections were unsatisfactory?

Until you have that actual number ... you are left to deal with the hyperbole of those who sell the products and services that they intend to mandate by law ... using their own manipulative spin on "how bad" things are and how "necessary" their proposed law is in protecting these two or three people.

There is no record of any improvement in the quality of home inspections having been accomplished with the passage of any licensing law in the U.S. To the contrary, the Ohio Real Estate Commission's study of several years ago showed just the opposite ... that the quality of inspections remained consistent after laws were passed and were not different than in states that had no licensing laws.

When you remove from those shouting for legislation (1) those who sell the education and tests that are being proposed for required use, (2) those who already possess the training and experience that they propose to be a "minimum standard" that all of their competitors must reach prior to being able to compete against them, and (3) those who aspire to sit on the governing boards and panels ... you find virtually no one left to support the law.

Particularly noteworthy is the absence of the consumer ... or any organized consumer advocacy group ... even arguing for the need of any such regulation (aside from the two or three who volunteered to participate with the evening news stories).

Licensing solves nothing.
James,

I can't give you exact figures for the last 18 months but I have got some statistics for the period 2012 (accurate) and 2013 (projected) source CMHC.

House Sales

2012 Actual

  • 25,567 Single family homes
  • 51,175 Multi-family homes
  • 196,383 Resale homes (MLS only)
2013 Projected
  • 24,600 Single family homes
  • 38,300 Multi-family homes
  • 201,100 Resale homes (MLS only)

Homes Inspected

According to OREA almost 50% of homes are inspected prior to purchase. This this equates to over 130,000 inspections, in Ontario, each year.

Claims against Inspectors

No recent figures are available, but in the period 1997 to 2004, in Ontario alone, there were 1,000,000 Home Sales.

If we aggresively adjust the percentage of home inspections down to only 30% of only resale homes (520,000) we could estimated the number of inspections over that 8 year period to be 156,000 inspections.

In that time, which was before widespread Association membership, the use of an SoP and code of ethics of some sort, and inspection software that assist in the inspection process there were 124 claims against inspectors.

This equates to .079%, or less than 1% of 1% of all inspections that raised claims. The research does not say if these claims were successful or not, just that they were made.

Statistics provided by RECO (Real Estate Council of Ontario) shows that in the Licensed profession of Real Estate Brokerage in Ontario, there were 109 CONVICTIONS of Realtors or Brokerages in the period 2008 to 2013 (so far), this does not include claims that have yet to be dealt with by RECO or the Courts.

So it appears that Licensing in Ontario specifically does not really do anything to protect the public from errant professionals, it just protects them from the same errant professionals doing something wrong twice.

That said, these are all public figures, and yet licensing of professions forges ahead speared on by those outside of the industries, so we need to ensure if it happens in Ontario, it happens for the right reasons, and no because a few individuals want to get rich off the back of it.




Future Proof Property Inspections Inc.

Leonard Inkster, CMI, CITP, CCHI, CPI, IAC2

Any information posted by me on this site should be considered a personal opinion.

Web: http://fppi.ca
Mail: leni@fppi.ca

"Every man always has handy a dozen glib little reasons why he is right not to sacrifice himself..." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 6/18/13, 1:34 PM
James H. Bushart James H. Bushart is offline
Certified Professional Inspector (CPI)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 24,985
Default Re: Home Inspector Licensing in Ontario? Look South!

From 1997 through 2004 ... with 1,000,000 homes that were sold ... there were 124 complaints, of which some were valid and some were not. Frankly, those numbers would be something that proponents of licensing laws in the USA would aspire to with legislation. You've already achieved an almost perfect score without legislation. You need to be blasting these numbers all over the place and bragging as to how a licensing law that disguises poor inspectors by providing them with credentials could actually cause these excellent numbers to get worse.

It is obvious that there are factors OTHER than consumer protection at work, here.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 6/18/13, 2:29 PM
kwood kwood is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sault Ste Marie ON
Posts: 11,820
Please Note: kwood is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Home Inspector Licensing in Ontario? Look South!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbushart View Post
From 1997 through 2004 ... with 1,000,000 homes that were sold ... there were 124 complaints, of which some were valid and some were not. Frankly, those numbers would be something that proponents of licensing laws in the USA would aspire to with legislation. You've already achieved an almost perfect score without legislation. You need to be blasting these numbers all over the place and bragging as to how a licensing law that disguises poor inspectors by providing them with credentials could actually cause these excellent numbers to get worse.

It is obvious that there are factors OTHER than consumer protection at work, here.
As usual I agree. When I had talks with the Consumer Services and Consulting firm we were on the same page. Only reason Licensing has come up is because of the wrong Media attention towards Home Inspection and the Associations behind Home Inspectors.
From what I can see there will not be a common ground on this or any meeting as all Associations feel they have the answer.
Add training, power and money in the Toronto area and you can see why every single Association has a reason to be the one to provide criteria and license material. Take that power away and you have something.
I mentioned a good bench mark would be to follow the same 200+ hours, exam and mentoring provided for licensing in Alberta.
I am really hoping that they did listen and looked into the structure they provided. Again it is not perfect but close to what I think is bang on for a start.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 6/18/13, 6:06 PM
Stephan Tremblay, CMI's Avatar
Stephan Tremblay, CMI Stephan Tremblay, CMI is offline
Certified Master Inspector
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 865
Default Re: Home Inspector Licensing in Ontario? Look South!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwood View Post
You don't have look South Stephan all you need to do is look West or East of Ontario.
I agree Kevin 100%. I've said it before. All of the lawsuits (a whopping 3 in the last 10 years nationwide) were in a licensed province where a certain other association drives the licensing and education bus. Strange huh?
Reply With Quote
Need a home inspection in Newfoundland and Labrador? Check out InterNACHI's listing of Newfoundland and Labrador certified home inspectors. Or, find a home inspector anywhere in the world with our inspection search engine.
  #14  
Old 6/18/13, 6:08 PM
Stephan Tremblay, CMI's Avatar
Stephan Tremblay, CMI Stephan Tremblay, CMI is offline
Certified Master Inspector
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 865
Default Re: Home Inspector Licensing in Ontario? Look South!

Jim you're on the money. I hope someone can get this point across before its too late. Maybe we should start a public thread that all licensed states can vent and send the link to the Provincial government
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 6/18/13, 7:10 PM
kwood kwood is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sault Ste Marie ON
Posts: 11,820
Please Note: kwood is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Home Inspector Licensing in Ontario? Look South!

Better yet the CMI's should get together and make sure it is done in compliance with the required hours they feel makes a Home Inspector ready to Inspect in Ontario.
I did say to Consumer Services that a good starting point is to follow what Alberta requires. 200+hrs.
Also when speaking to the consulting firm I felt that no Association should be in a sense Driving the Bus.
I am thinking this might be too low according to what I have witnessed as of late.
Also Mentoring, Peer review and Passing a standardized test at 70% or better should be added for the final.
Again this is if we are forced to do so after the Consumer Services Meeting on Tuesday.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bungalows to Mansions Professional Home Inspection, LLC bgraham Miscellaneous Discussion for Inspectors 7 1/11/09 3:03 PM
Washington Home Inspections sstanczyk Miscellaneous Discussion for Inspectors 8 9/2/06 2:53 AM
PIC of State Rep and sponsor of new NACHI H.I. Bill in NH. gromicko Miscellaneous Discussion for Inspectors 53 8/30/06 5:58 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 8:46 AM.
no new posts