From the Tattered Little Date Book

Local Inspection Issues Canadian Home Inspectors
1

Thought you might be interested to read this reply from the minister to an email query I sent to him a little while ago…

Dear Mr. Blakey:

Thank you for your electronic messages of October 22 and 28, 2005, expressing concern about the relationship between Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) and the Canadian Association of Home and Property Inspectors (CAHPI), and about the exclusion of other organizations from consultation.

In 1996, a CMHC survey of the private home inspection industry indicated that there was a strong need to have a unified national body that represents the private inspection industry and bring professionalism to it. There was also the need to establish a structure that could be used to educate and protect the consumer. The private inspection industry was highly fragmented, comprised of a number of competing associations, franchises and individual firms with varying qualifications. This presented a serious problem within the housing sector.

In 1997, following extensive industry consultations, a report entitled “A Strategy to Provide Co-ordination of the Canadian Home Inspection Profession” was published. Responding to this strategy, the industry nominated private inspector representatives from across the industry and Canada, to form the industry alliance known as CAHPI.

As Canada’s national housing agency, CMHC has strongly encouraged this industry-led national initiative. I encourage you to review the CMHC 2000 Research Highlight “Canadian Home Inspectors and Building Officials National Initiative”, available on CMHC’s web site www.cmhc.ca, which outlines the background, the issue, the role of CMHC, the rationale for the creation of CAHPI, and its ensuing government-supported work, which has created the National Certification Process for Home and Property Inspectors. The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors (NACHI) is one of several organizations which, because they emerged following the extensive industry consultation and following the creation of a national alliance of private home inspectors and associations, did not participate in the consultations.

As previously explained to you in my October 27 letter, this industry-led national certification program will apply a consistent and national industry standard in Canada to voluntarily certify the competency of private home inspectors. While CMHC has no role in the certification of private home inspectors, the Corporation understands that the signing of certification equivalency agreements between CAHPI and other certifying organizations is key to national implementation. This may be a way for NACHI to participate in the national certification. You may wish to discuss this and the other questions you have raised, with CAHPI. It should be noted that the Standards Council of Canada Standard CAN-P-9, “Criteria for Accreditation of Personnel Certification Bodies”, is the basis for the national certification model for home and property inspectors. CMHC is unaware if NACHI would meet the requirements of CAN-P-9.

I can appreciate your concern. I hope that the foregoing information has been helpful.

Sincerely,

Original Signed by

The Honourable Joe Fontana, P.C., M.P.

Unique ID: AF78-F5-18CD67

2

That huge sucking noise you are hearing? That is NACHI being kissed off.

The programme is flawed. It’s implementation is flawed. It’s implementors are flawed. The policy to exclude all non-aligned inspectors is flawed. The decision to exclude NACHI and it’s membership is flawed. The pilot certification programme is flawed. The decision to render years of successfully completed inspections as worthless is flawed.

And apparently nobody in the Liberal government gave a damn .

3

George the biggest problem with the national Certification is the Loud Mouth Minority make lots of noise .
And the very silent majority seem to be afraid to speak up( Except for a very few on this BB) .
If the loud mouths succeed to convince the Government it wont be because we have not tried
to get those who’s future is at stake to give their openion.
I am sure we who are concerned for all will win and the future will be great for all Home Inspectors.

The more I hear,
the more I see!
NACHI is the one for me !
Roy Cooke R.H.I. Royshomeinspection.com
A HAPPY NACHI MEMBER,… More find this out ever day!

4

I have had several realestate agents inform me that one member of CAHPI is making the following statements. (paraphrasing).

**The CAPHI programme was the only national programme extant that would provide reliable inspectors

** That only inspectors who are members of CAPHI and certified by that body should be used

**That all inspectors who were operating outside of the CAPHI membership / programme were incompetent and a dangerous unknown quantity **

**That CREA was on side with this programme and would shortly be making an announcement to that effect instructing agents and brokers to use only CAPHI member / certified inspectors
**

5

I have had several realestate agents inform me that one member of CAHPI is making the following statements. (paraphrasing).

**The CAPHI programme was the only national programme extant that would provide reliable inspectors

** That only inspectors who are members of CAPHI and certified by that body should be used

**That all inspectors who were operating outside of the CAPHI membership / programme were incompetent and a dangerous unknown quantity **

That CREA was on side with this programme and would shortly be making an announcement to that effect instructing agents and brokers to use only CAPHI member / certified inspectors

6

I do know many CAHPI and OAHI members come here for information .
It is obvious they are getting little or none from their own Bulletin Boards or their associations…
Their BB use is almost zero I have a feeling that intimidation is just as Strong as it was before .
This sure is a poor way to treat their members.
NACHI might not be perfect but it sure gives helps ALL! better then the Canadian association do .
Here you can ask with out fear of repercussions and ill treatment.
This has been proved many times that it does happen on the Canadian BB.

The more I hear,
the more I see!
NACHI is the one for me !
Roy Cooke R.H.I. Royshomeinspection.com
A HAPPY NACHI MEMBER,… More find this out ever day!

7

**CREA (Cdn Real Estate Assoc.) Pledge of Competition

http://www.crea.ca/public/realtor_codes/pledge.htm

** Member Boards and Associations of The Canadian Real Estate Association support free and open competition. We believe in the principles embodied in the Competition Act of Canada. Therefore we adhere to a Code of Conduct which includes the following standards:[ul]
[li] Commission rates or fees members charge for services offered to the public, and the division of those fees among cooperating members, are solely the choice of those providing the services.[/li][li]A brokerage may offer any variety of services e.g. exclusive, open, MLS® listings etc. Boards and real estate Associations accept MLS® listings regardless of the price, commission rates or fees, or the division thereof.[/li][li]Advertising by members and non-members is subject to the discretion of the individual, as long as it is honest and lawful. We encourage creative, competitive choice in the services advertised to the public.[/li][li]The business relationships between Broker members, their salespersons and non-members is theirs to determine. With regard to Board and Association membership, members may choose for themselves to work full or part time, as long as they remain available to serve the public on a regular basis and provided provincial enabling legislation does not otherwise authorize a limitation of such choice.[/li][li]All members are required to meet uniform and reasonable financial and educational standards. They are required to demonstrate integrity and character necessary to protect the public.[/ul]By using the MLS® and REALTOR® trademarks, all member Boards and Associations of The Canadian Real Estate Association proclaim adherence to these principles, designed to preserve free and open competition.[/li]
** Principles of Competition**

**http://www.crea.ca/public/realtor_codes/principle.htm
**
These are the specific terms of the Principles of Competition approved by the member Boards and Associations of The Canadian Real Estate Association at the Annual General Assembly in 1999, still in effect today. It is provided with interpretations of some of the key points in the application of the Principles of Competition.
The purpose of a listing service operated under the MLS® trademark is the orderly correlation and dissemination of listing information to its members so that through cooperation in the marketing of property REALTORS® may better serve the buying and selling public. Member real estate Boards and Associations shall not undertake any activity or enact or enforce any rules which run contrary to these guidelines subject to any applicable laws, government statute, ordinance or regulation, and to any final decree of any court or administrative agency.

                 **Therefore member Boards and Associations must not:**[ol]

[li] Fix, establish, suggest, maintain or control the commission rates or fees for MLS® or other listing services or any services to be rendered by members.[/li][li] Fix, establish, suggest, maintain or control the division of commissions or fees between cooperating members or members and non-members.[/li][li] Require financial support of the Multiple Listing Service® operation by any formula based on commissions charged for the provision of real estate services.[/li][li] Finance a Multiple Listing Service® by any formula based on sales price, unless that fee does not exceed $400.00 per transaction. That limit may be increased in accordance with any increases in the Consumer Price Index as published by Statistics Canada and experienced since January 2000.[/li][li] Require or agree with a publisher or publication in which the Board or Association has no financial interest to refuse any type of advertising from members or non-members including refusals based on the commission rate or fees contained therein or recommend the type of advertising to be accepted by such publishers/publications.[/li][li] Prevent or restrict advertising by members of commission rates or fees, or advertising of for sale by owner or other consultative services, or offering or advertising of inducements, incentives, gifts, prizes, refunds or rebates.[/li][li] Generally restrict advertising by members or non-members unless the advertising is:[ul][/li][li][LIST][/li] i. False or misleading,[/ul] [/ol][ul]
[li][LIST][/li]ii. Prohibited by law, or[/ul] [/LIST][ul]
[li][LIST][/li]iii. Restricted at the request of the vendor.[/ul] [/LIST]
[li] Prohibit or discourages cooperation with non-members.[/li][li]Limit or interfere with the terms of the relationship between members.[/li][li] Require Brokers or salespersons work full time in real estate sales, brokerage or related industries as a condition of membership although membership may be terminated based on complaints that member(s) are proven not available to serve the public on a regular and consistent basis and/or in accordance with standards of competence and integrity necessary to serve the public.[/li][li]Refuse membership in a Board or Association to any broker or salesperson unless they fail to meet uniform and reasonable financial and educational criteria or standards of competence, integrity and character that are reasonably necessary for the protection of the public.[/li][li] Reject a listing submitted to the MLS® system by a member on the basis of price, commission rate or fees contained in the listing.[/li][li]Prohibit or discourage a member from accepting a listing from a vendor preferring to give “office exclusive”.[/LIST]**It shall be the duty and obligation of member Boards of The Canadian Real Estate Association to examine their Rules and Regulations to assure that they conform to this policy. The right of real estate Boards and Associations, to use the certification and design marks of CREA, may be terminated in the event of a failure to adhere to the Principles of Competition.[/li]
http://www.crea.ca/public/realtor_codes/code_of_ethics.htm
**

8

I guess Mr. Mullen is not creditable; the article in the London Free Press was attrubuted to him. Now he disclaims the statements claiming he never made them, but the reporter did. Well I guess the reporter had to get the facts from someone, and seeing as Mr. Mullen is or was the spokesperson at the time… well need I say anything further. This is the same Mr. Mullen who has been on record many time contradicting himself. Open mouth insert foot…

**http://www.raymondwand.ca/cahpi1.htm
**http://www.raymondwand.ca/cahpi2.htm

9

It really is too bad Bill was a great guy and helped me a lot when I was just starting .
I do not understand why he had to change .
It looks like he can tell others where they are wrong but lacks the ability to receive correction for him self.
He lowered him self considerably in my mind when he started to call others liars when he has made many wrong posts himself.
This figure is used by many at OAHI on a continuing basis and Bill did post it more then once and also had these figures on his web site.

The more I hear,
the more I see!
NACHI is the one for me !
Roy Cooke R.H.I. Royshomeinspection.com
A HAPPY NACHI MEMBER,… More find this out ever day!

.

10

Maybe NACHI would like to Sponsor a CREA event? Is NACHI going to let CAHPI tell CREA who they can dance with?

http://www.crea.ca/public/crea/2006_sponsorship_opps.pdf

11

Ray,
I would think it would be a good idea for NACHI or the organizers of the major 2007 conference in Toronto to extend a formal invitation to CREA to participate in the conference.
Wolf

12

Reply to Mr. Mullens comments on the CAHPI discussion board.

**http://www.raymondwand.ca/cahpiA.html
**http://www.raymondwand.ca/cahpiB.html

** BM Quote**:

RW replies:
Gee I guess you do need glasses because you are the one quoted in the article. Your name is Bill Mullen right?

** BM Quote:**

RW replies:
You have been asked repeatedly about statements you make but as of this point in time you haven’t been able to substantiate anything!

** BM Quote:**

RW replies:
Who cares? Well you obviously don’t! You have stated 5000 inspectors will be certified by 2007! That in itself will be impossible because there aren’t 5000 inspectors, nor would it be posssible to certify 5000 by 2007! So as to higher or lower number you seem to have a problem with embellishment.

** BM Quote:**

RW replies:
Now that comment is typical of your long held views about anyone you feel does not meet your standard or your voluntary certification process. If you are suggesting that anyone other then CAHPI or OAHI are competent that is laughable.

Further there are confirmed reports that comments are being made that require explanation. These are:

The CAPHI programme was the only national programme extant that would provide reliable inspectors
**
*** That only inspectors who are members of CAPHI and certified by that body should be used

*** That all inspectors who were operating outside of the CAPHI membership / programme were incompetent and a dangerous unknown quantity **

*** That CREA was on side with this programme and would shortly be making an announcement to that effect instructing agents an brokers to use only CAPHI member / certified inspectors**

RW replies:
Seeing as you can never fully support your statements, and are now denying statements attributed to you in the London Free Press which is in line with your further statements in the Canadian Home Inspector Magazine on page 8 (winter 2006), again stating 5000 inspectors will be certified. You alluded to the same facts on another inspectors forum, Inspectors News. Perhaps you could clarify the statements in bold above?

Have you read CREA’s mission statement and position about competition? Because the above quoted statements by a CAHPI spokesperson run contrary to CREA’s mandate. The statements are also anti competitive, restrictrive, and slanderous. You know fully well there are many qualified inspectors not aligned and aligned.

Thanks for providing proof that much of what has been stated is nothing but falsehoods and embellished and wishful thinking on your part.

13

CAHPI Board . ? That is the board that discriminates Has very poor ethicks and removed me because my one and only post was to offer new or old inspectors help .
I said how much I appreciated being able to phone some one when I was on an inspection and get an answer to some thing I did not understand and I gave my phone number.
I guess they do not wish to have me trying to help any inspectors.
Talk about a closed mind group of leaders
These are the people who feel they should control the home inspection industry in Canada.
Its their way or no way.

.The more I hear,
the more I see!
NACHI is the one for me !
Roy Cooke R.H.I. Royshomeinspection.com
A HAPPY NACHI MEMBER,… More find this out ever day!

14

Mr. Mullen certainly seems to have a problem dealing with truth. He has made statements which he cannot back up. Now he calls me a liar, very professional indeed. He has made statements attributed to him in the London Free Press and now denies having made them.

This is the same person who was using the ASHI designation/logo even though he was no longer a member.

This is the same person who has unresolved complaints with the BBB and was removed from the BBB because of his inability to deal properly with a problem he created.

This is the same person who stated many times that I was misusing my RHI, even though he has no concrete proof.

This is the same person who has on numerous public posted stated how he feels about NACHI , its members and Mr. Gromicko.

Strangley enough this is the same person who has problems being factual.

Do you really believe someone who cannot answer the hard questions and must revert to calling people liars?

As quoted by Mr. Mullen on the CAHPI forum. Can you trust this person to do what is right?

15

I feel this is just the Continuing Bulling by CAHPI.

I think all should just DISMISS Mr. Bill Mullen his group and their wants as Hog Wash.
This group is are only trying to sell smoke and Mirrors to make them selves
look like they are doing much for the
Canadian Home Inspection Industry.
They talk about what is comming and how great it is going to be.
They are all full of Bull they do not answer simple questions OR give proper information.
Can any one tell me ( B. Mullens figures ) WHY 5,000 Canadian Home inspectors should allow 220 RHIs of OAHI/CAHPI
to make decisions that will effect all Canadian Home Inspectors.
This group is just trying to make them selves the Controllers of our industry.
In 10 plus years they have had a closed door pollicy and still have only just 220 RHIs.
They manage to sell around 400 ± packages every year they milk 500 ± students and associates
for funds that they continually refuse to have a proper audit to show how it is spent.

The more I hear,
the more I see!
NACHI is the one for me !
Roy Cooke R.H.I. Royshomeinspection.com
A HAPPY NACHI MEMBER,… More find this out ever day!

16

My replies
http://www.raymondwand.ca/cahpiB.html

17

I think that it is sad and unfortunate that Mr. Mullen openly displays his and his organisations dislike of anything American. This attitude is juvenile and completely unacceptable from an organisation that claims support from a branch of our Federal Government.

On behalf of our American friends and those Canadians who are mature enough to accept them as equals I demand a retraction of this damaging, insulting, and thoroughly disgusting behaviour.

I, and other members of N.A.C.H.I. Canada intend to send a transcript of these and other remarks to the Minister in charge with a similar demand.

18

Mr. Mullen has a thing or two to learn about being successful at lying. Seems many in CAHPI thrive on lies and deceit.

Now we have another member of CAHPI making outrageous demands and speaking on behalf of CREA. I guess these people have a good teacher on how to be misleading in Mr. Mullen. CAHPI seems to tolerate a lot of b u llsh it.

19

Canadian Association of Home and Property Inspectors (CAHPI) NATIONAL CERTIFICATION PROJECT

**QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
**

  1. Why has CAHPI developed and promoted the National Certification?

The Canadian Association of Home and Property Inspectors (CAHPI) did not develop the National Certification Program. It was a response to the CMHC study in 1996, which identified inconsistencies in home inspections across Canada.

  1. What or who generated interest in the National Certification Program?

Increased demand for home inspections and the lack of qualified practitioners lead to a number of consumer concerns – primarily inconsistencies in the quality and level of service provided. The Canadian public, through CMHC, demanded an accountable level of competence and training.

  1. Why is CAHPI the organization that has taken on this project?

CAHPI is the organization that was created by organized Canadian home inspectors to undertake this project. It is the only national inspection association with representation from across Canada. CAHPI is an association of associations – OAHI/CAHPI-Ontario and the other provincial/regional associations provide the funding, support and manpower to maintain CAHPI.

  1. What gives CAHPI the authority to lead this project?

Through the National Initiative, which has the support of the Ministry of Housing, CMHC and HRSDC, the home inspection industry was encouraged to establish one umbrella organization that receives its support and direction from the provincial/regional associations. This organization is CAHPI. CAHPI is empowered to speak on the behalf of the Canadian home inspection industry at the national level.

  1. What role does the Government of Canada have in this process?

They have provided encouragement and financial support to accomplish these goals.

  1. Are other Home Inspection groups excluded from this program?

No. Any individual who feels he/she possesses the qualifications is invited to apply for National Certification.

  1. Are the rules and criteria the same for members of CAHPI and non-members?

Yes.

8 ) What is the process for the Certification of existing Home Inspectors, especially the RHI members? Will they be grandfathered?

No. Every applicant’s credentials will be evaluated against the requirements of the National Certification
Program.

  1. If I were a RHI, why and how would it benefit me to apply for the National Certificate?

The National Certification will be a nationally recognized credential in addition to your RHI qualification. As the Program grows it is reasonable to expect public recognition of, and therefore a demand for, National Certificate Holders. Having both designations can make your service more attractive to the public. By 2008 it is expected
that the various relocation services and other national stakeholders will recommend inspections by National Certificate Holders as a minimum standard.

  1. Why would I become a RHI, instead of becoming a National Certificate Holder?

While fees have not yet been established, it is anticipated that the most cost-effective and convenient way to attain and maintain your designation as a National Certificate Holder will still be through membership in OAHI/CAHPI-Ontario, a founding member of CAHPI.
You could be National Certificate Holders and remain unaffiliated with OAHI/CAHPI-Ontario, however you are not a member of CAHPI itself; therefore, you could not use the CAHPI logo nor promote a non-existent membership. As both a RHI and a Certificate Holder member of OAHI/CAHPI-Ontario you would benefit from both national and provincial promotions, self promotion of your qualifications, logo use and peer association. It is the responsibility of OAHI/CAHPI-Ontario to promote its members and their qualifications.
It is anticipated that the successful candidate for a National Certificate would be a practicing home inspector in all province/regional associations, most likely an Associate in OAHI/CAHPI-Ontario.

  1. How will experienced inspectors who are not members of a CAHPI association be tested and evaluated?

Applicants will all undergo a background review and will have to complete at least one Test Inspection with Peer Review (TIPR). All National Certificate Holders will have to complete one TIPR every five years. Nonmembers will be evaluated according to the same formula that is used for OAHI/CAHPI-Ontario members.

  1. What is a Test Inspection with Peer Review?

Each applicant will be required to inspect a house with known deficiencies and deliver both a verbal and a written report on the home to an evaluator. The written report must meet the requirements of the Standards of Practice and the Code of Ethics.

  1. I’ve been inspecting homes for fifteen years. Why do I have to have a background review and Test Inspection with Peer Review?

In order to establish a consistent level of competence among home inspectors, all applicants will be required to follow the same process.

  1. How do the examiners become qualified to do their work? Who tests them?

The examiners will be National Certificate Holders, very experienced, respected members of their profession; the Chief Examiner will test them as part of the qualification process.

  1. What are the fees for certification?

The fees for certification have not been established yet but will be posted on the CAHPI website at the appropriate time.

  1. Will there be a difference in the fees for OAHI/CAHPI-Ontario members and non-members?

Yes. There will be a higher cost for non-members since a significant portion of membership dues have already been invested into the development of the program by the members of OAHI/CAHPI-Ontario.

  1. What are the challenges for CAHPI in dealing with non-members?

Membership in OAHI/CAHPI-Ontario already includes a portion of the background review required by the National Certification Program. For non-member applicants, the National Certification Council has an
additional review to complete.

18 ) What is the National Certification Authority and who are members?

The National Certification Authority (NCA) is an arms-length body whose mandate is to manage and control the certification and accreditation processes. The CAHPI Board of Directors currently appoints members of this ‘Authority’.

  1. What is the National Certification Council and who are members?

The National Certification Council (NCC) will undertake certification assessments and make recommendations to the National Certification Authority as to what stage an individual fits within the National Certification Model.

The NCC is appointed by the NCA, and its membership is composed of home inspectors and respected members of the community. In the future, it is anticipated that the make-up of the NCC could be reviewed and determined by the National Certificate Holders.

  1. What is the National Accreditation Council and who are members?

The National Accreditation Council (NAC) is responsible for reviewing and granting accreditation to training providers and/or the home inspection courses and programs offered by provincial/regional associations.

The NAC is appointed by the NCA, and its membership is composed of home inspectors and respected members of the community. In the future, it is anticipated that the make-up of the NAC could be reviewed and determined by the National Certificate Holders.

  1. Is there an appeal process if an application is denied?

Yes, appeals can be made to the National Certification Authority.

  1. Will the CAHPI portion of my OAHI/CAHPI-Ontario dues go to funding the National Certification promotion, even if I don’t want it to?

No. The National Certification Program is intended to be self-supporting.

  1. Where does the funding for National Certification Program come from?

The initial funds were provided by dues levied by OAHI/CAHPI-Ontario and the other provincial/regional association for CAHPI membership, as well as various Government agencies and outside sources. Once operational the Program is expected to be self-supporting.

  1. Where do the TIPR home(s) come from?

Examiners have an established process for finding homes as required.

  1. Is there an appeal process if a TIPR is not passed?

Yes. Appeals can be filed with the Chief Examiner.

  1. Will the examiners have to be CAHPI members?

No. Examiners will be National Certificate Holders approved by the Chief Examiner.

  1. Will National Certificate Holders be required to carry Errors and Omissions insurance?

The issue of E&O insurance is addressed by the provincial/regional associations, not by the National Certification Program.

28 ) Since the National Certification Program was initiated by a CMHC study, will CMHC be promoting this program?

CMHC has supported the development of the program; future promotion of the Program by CMHC is yet to be determined.

  1. Is the National Certification Program within the By-laws of CAHPI?

Yes, in general it is. Some minor amendments will be needed for full compatibility.

  1. Are commercial property inspections covered by this program?

No, this program is targeted at residential properties.

  1. Is there an acronym for National Certification Holder?
    No there is no acronym; only the full spelling of the term is acceptable and official.
20

This as I feel is nothing but a bunch of Hog Wash it stinks and is full of Bull $hit.
If as they say they want all Canadian Home Inspectors then why are they not out there marketing it to us .
They completely ignore those who are not in the favoured group.
They give little information even when asked direct questions.
They refuse to acknowledge who is making all these great decisions that could effect’s all.
What happened to those who where going to get all those $1,000:00 inspections after Whistler.

(Quote Bill Mullen )
“The PDI session in Whistler will count as ‘The Course’ for all attending, and CAHPI will be giving those people the CAHPI PDI Certification. The difference is that since CMHC is heavily subsidizing this ‘session’ and it is our pilot session, the attendees will be expected to provide information and feedback about the course and protocols and their field experience. There will be 120 ‘consultants’ at this session. Since the CMHC subsidy basically saves our inspectors around $ 12,000 in total, we felt that nobody would mind helping out a bit. There will be several courses offered at a later date. We hope to have these courses delivered in every province within the next few months. CMHC estimates that about 200,000 homes in Canada will need this inspection each year, so we need to get people properly trained and certified. Bill Mullen”

A lot of inspectors paid big funds to go to whistler took the PDI courses in the fall of 2004.
We where told that more of these courses would soon be available for all and we too could then do the PDI inspections that would make us all rich.
Well I must have missed it I did not see any more courses offered .
I also have not heard of any one getting rich from these $1,000:00 non existence inspections.
We are well into the second year I wonder why the truth on the PDI inspections has never come out.
I feel this is just Bill Mullen again trying to hood-wink ( To take in by deceptive means; deceive. ) the CMHC and the Inspection Industry with his National Certification.
Bill I think you are a slow learner as Pres. Abraham Lincoln said ( http://www.panettainstitute.org/Commentaries/031801.htm ) and it is so true.

Roy Sr.