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  #1  
Old 6/8/12, 6:27 PM
Jason Kaylor Jason Kaylor is offline
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Default New FLIR T420, T420BX, T440 and T440BX

Actually, these cameras are not all that new. They have been out for about 4 weeks.

FLIR does have some nice promos going on these units right now.

FLIR T440 or FLIR T440BX comes with an Apple Ipad 3 with WiFi for free.

FLIR T420 and FLIR T420BX comes with an Apple Ipod Touch for free.

I didn't post them up right away, because it always seems there are bugs in new camera systems and I wanted to avoid any possible issues....guess what, we have had no issues what so ever on these things.

The new T series is built in the T620 frame and features some similar features. One of the more notable ones is the LIVE streaming video to Apple and/or Android devices and MSX technology in the T440/T440BX.

The T440 and T440BX features MSX Technology. MSX is best described by the attached images to this post. Keep in mind when looking at the images, they were taken at literally the same moment by the same camera. Even though the MSX ones looks extremly better, technically they are both at the same resolution. MSX figures out what is important to see in digital. That is why you can see panel numbers and other items that are written or normally not displayed in IR, now showing in the image. On the FLIR site they have them side by side and the non MSX image looks horrible compared to the MSX image. If you cover up the MSX image and only look at the left one, it looks amazing. At the end of the day, MSX is a form of fusion that doesn't require the IR version of the image to be conpromised in anyway. You do not have to take X% of IR away and blend in X% of digital to achieve the effect. Plus it only highlights the areas of the image in digital that need it. I have no idea how it does it, but it is impressive when shown next to a non MSX image.

Personally, I see zero reason to buy the BX version of these cameras. MK rating is the same on the BX and non BX version, which is really why you would want a BX model like in the E30/E40/E50 cams.

I also personally think the T420 basically kills the E60 business for FLIR. There is not really much of a reason to purchase the E60 with the T420 only $500 more than the E60. Two side notes to this. The E60 now has live streaming video to Apple and Android devices just beacause of how close it is in price to the T420. The second note to consider is all T series cams have ThermaTrac available as an option. ThermaTrac is FLIR's version of LowJack. It is only a $300 add on and it can find your lost or stolen camera. Not only will you get it back sooner (more than likely) than filing a claim with your insurance company, but also the bad guy actually has a high probabilty of getting caught. The most important part of the ThermTrac with regards to the pricing of the T420 and E60 is, it might pay for itself. Call your insurance provider when getting the cam and tell them about the feature, you might get a discount on your insurance on a T series cam vs the E60.

I cannot stress enough, that any of these T series cameras have probably the best ergonomics of any camera on the market right now. They just feel "right".

We have a few different sites with resources on these cams:

http://www.aikencolon.com/flir-t420-...nfrared-camera
http://www.aikencolon.com/flir-t420b...nfrared-camera
http://www.aikencolon.com/flir-t440-...nfrared-camera
http://www.aikencolon.com/flir-t440b...nfrared-camera

http://www.netzerotools.com/flir-t42...nfrared-camera
http://www.netzerotools.com/flir-t42...nfrared-camera
http://www.netzerotools.com/flir-t44...nfrared-camera
http://www.netzerotools.com/flir-t44...nfrared-camera

Jason Kaylor - JJ
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Net Zero Tools
jason@netzerotools.com
480-528-4045
Attached Thumbnails
New FLIR T420, T420BX, T440 and T440BX-flir-msx-elbow-jpg   New FLIR T420, T420BX, T440 and T440BX-flir-msx-elbow-jpg   New FLIR T420, T420BX, T440 and T440BX-flir-t440-msx-jpg   New FLIR T420, T420BX, T440 and T440BX-flir-t440-msx-jpg  

Last edited by jkaylor; 6/8/12 at 6:36 PM..
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  #2  
Old 6/8/12, 11:14 PM
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Chuck Evans Chuck Evans is online now
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Default Re: New FLIR T420, T420BX, T440 and T440BX

Nice.

My T400 just took a dump and has to go back to FLIR. Got any loaners in your fleet?



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  #3  
Old 6/8/12, 11:34 PM
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Brandon Clark Brandon Clark is offline
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Default Re: New FLIR T420, T420BX, T440 and T440BX

Looks like I'm definitely swapping back to FLIR!

Jason, when you mention the streaming to android or apple devices, how good is that technology? Is there a delay in time between what the camera see's and then what you see on the tablet or is it nearly instant?

Can you snap pictures by pressing buttons on the Android or Ipad or do you still have to press the buttons on the actual camera?

I'm still a bit confused about what the BX models have extra that the other models don't? Is it just a faster processor?

Can you provide the list pricing on the T440 or do I have to contact my local FLIR rep for such info?
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  #4  
Old 6/9/12, 7:01 AM
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ldapkus1 ldapkus1 is offline
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Default Re: New FLIR T420, T420BX, T440 and T440BX

Quote:
Originally Posted by cevans View Post
Nice.

My T400 just took a dump and has to go back to FLIR. Got any loaners in your fleet?
Did you get rid of your 320 Chuck? I'm thinking of getting a back up/tool bag camera.
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  #5  
Old 6/9/12, 9:22 AM
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Chuck Evans Chuck Evans is online now
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Default Re: New FLIR T420, T420BX, T440 and T440BX

Quote:
Originally Posted by ldapkus1 View Post
Did you get rid of your 320 Chuck? I'm thinking of getting a back up/tool bag camera.
No but I have it leased out, so I don't have access to it.

Fortunately the T400 has another month under warranty, but I'm going to be without for a few weeks. It's going to be expensive.



Chuck Evans (TREC #7657)
Level III Infraspection Institute Certified Infrared Thermographer (#8402)
HomeCert Houston Home Inspections & Thermal Inspections Find us on Facebook
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  #6  
Old 6/9/12, 10:59 AM
Jason Kaylor Jason Kaylor is offline
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Default Re: New FLIR T420, T420BX, T440 and T440BX

Brandon,

Here is something else to consider with the Android and Apple thing guys. First off, it isn't just a simple move images back and forth type of thing....yeah it has that, here is the really cool part. The integration happens across a network, meaning not only can you log in to the camera, but so can someone else. That person (you or someone else) has 100% complete camera functionality. About the only thing they cannot control is distance to target, angle, basically anything the user has to do while holding the camera. If the camera has auto focus then the person logged in has that as well. My FLIR rep out of San Diego showed me this functionality on a T620 about 8 months ago and it just floored me because of all the possibilities that go with it.

Okay, so lets say you are out in the field and you run across something you have never seen before. Lets say someone like...oh Jim Seffrin is sitting around the office and has an Ipad on his desk. You could call Jim and say, "hey do you have a second to look at something for me?". He could log in to the camera with full functionality. This ability goes on and on. I have actually told Jim about it. So we will see if he chimes in on that thought. This could actually potentially become an addition revenue stream for training facilities (non FLIR ones would probably have to license something) or in my case I could add it on as a service for free, etc. If you think out of the box, there really is all kinds of things you can do with the remote ability.

Thinking about doing flat roof inspections? Well, you could work with a mentor like say...Charley, and he could remotely do a job with you. For the most part, people that are in the IR business are very open with help. This is yet another way for people to network jobs, opportunities, etc. Right now, it is an Apple or Android integration, but I bet with some nifty API or customer programming or software there are yet other functionality for this.

One other thing with the Apple and Android remote log in ability. First, it works with Apple 100%. Android, on the other hand, is having some issues. Basically the Android device has to be on the same network as the person logging in. Well that causes some issues with remote log in. From what I know FLIR is working on this issue, and at the time of this post might actually already be fixed. I know FLIR guys monitor this board from time to time, so hopefully one will be able to chime in as to if it is fixed, or when it does get fixed.

There are tons of uses for the remote log in.

I really urge FLIR (I have actually been yelling this for years to manufactures) to turn the laser pointer in to a laser distance meter and pointer. It already would have a ton of viable purposes. With the remote log in ability, it would give the remote user even more information. I would really love to see Fluke use their Danaher/Leica Geo Systems connection and figure out a way to use the new Leica 3D laser technology and IR together. A camera that did 3D IR would be super sick. It is already possible to do with an IR line scanner and software, but these types of systems are fixed mount and are usually expensive due to the small amount of them produced vs the portable devices.

Jason Kaylor - JJ
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Last edited by jkaylor; 6/9/12 at 12:32 PM..
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  #7  
Old 6/9/12, 11:18 AM
Jason Kaylor Jason Kaylor is offline
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Default Re: New FLIR T420, T420BX, T440 and T440BX

Chuck,

I don't, because they gave us a slight hint to get rid of the 400/300 type inventory before the 420/440 came out. However, I bet FLIR might have some 400's laying around since it is now a dead unit to the 440.

Jason Kaylor - JJ
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jason@netzerotools.com

Last edited by jkaylor; 6/9/12 at 11:22 AM..
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  #8  
Old 6/9/12, 11:22 AM
Jason Kaylor Jason Kaylor is offline
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Default Re: New FLIR T420, T420BX, T440 and T440BX

By the way, the first two images (the ones of the elbows) are done with a 640x480 cam (T620/T640). I didn't want to give the wrong impression of image resolution of the T420/T440 based on those images. The ones of the fireplace are done with a T440. I didn't really want to use the 640x480 images ones due to that fact, but that image is one of the best examples of MSX usage, that I have seen so far.

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  #9  
Old 6/9/12, 12:14 PM
Jason Kaylor Jason Kaylor is offline
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Default Re: New FLIR T420, T420BX, T440 and T440BX

Quote:
Originally Posted by bclark3 View Post
Looks like I'm definitely swapping back to FLIR!

Jason, when you mention the streaming to android or apple devices, how good is that technology? Is there a delay in time between what the camera see's and then what you see on the tablet or is it nearly instant?

Can you snap pictures by pressing buttons on the Android or Ipad or do you still have to press the buttons on the actual camera?

I'm still a bit confused about what the BX models have extra that the other models don't? Is it just a faster processor?

Can you provide the list pricing on the T440 or do I have to contact my local FLIR rep for such info?
The streaming is about as instant as it gets. I personally saw zero delay.

You have complete functionality of the camera via the Apple or Android device. This includes snapping images.

As per my post, I really cannot for the life of me figure out why to buy the BX model. Dew point alarm and insulation alarm? The T440BX has a compass vs the T440. Not sure how, if at all, important that is. I guess I could figure out some reporting times that I guess it would be useful. The times it would be useful is when laying out where something is. However, MSX already overcomes that reporting issue. For example, you want to lay out your report based on the images location. Well you could use the compass to know which way the image was taken (doesn't help much if there are several items on, say the west wall...or whatever). With MSX, providing the client has their panels labeled well, they are already going to know what panel it is anyway. I guess someone could account for the date and time of day on the image and then use the compass to kind of figure out the approx location of the sun. The funny thing to me is the T440BX has a compass but no GPS. It is obviously a firmware type of switch. They are obviously doing it to keep some separation from the T440/T440BX from the T620/T620BX (which has GPS).....as if the 230,400 pixel difference isn't enough.

List on the T420/T420BX is $7950.00. The T440/T440BX is $10,950.00. Through the end of June the promo(s) mentioned in the original post exists via FLIR. As always, I can do other things (in addition to the FLIR promo) for Nachi members as well as set up live hands on demos (no matter where you are at), so give me a buzz or drop me an email.

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Last edited by jkaylor; 6/9/12 at 1:18 PM..
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  #10  
Old 6/9/12, 12:58 PM
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Chuck Evans Chuck Evans is online now
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Default Re: New FLIR T420, T420BX, T440 and T440BX

Do you forsee any price changes on the T6X imagers in the near future? I think they've been at their current levels for going on 2 years now.

Those T4X prices are less than most folks try to get for their used older T series units. I would be lamenting the sudden loss of resale value of my imagers if they hadn't already paid for themselves several times



Chuck Evans (TREC #7657)
Level III Infraspection Institute Certified Infrared Thermographer (#8402)
HomeCert Houston Home Inspections & Thermal Inspections Find us on Facebook
The Woodlands Home Inspections
Magnolia TX Home Inspections & Thermography


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  #11  
Old 6/9/12, 1:10 PM
Jason Kaylor Jason Kaylor is offline
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Default Re: New FLIR T420, T420BX, T440 and T440BX

Quote:
Originally Posted by cevans View Post
Do you forsee any price changes on the T6X imagers in the near future? I think they've been at their current levels for going on 2 years now.

Those T4X prices are less than most folks try to get for their used older T series units. I would be lamenting the sudden loss of resale value of my imagers if they hadn't already paid for themselves several times
The 640x480 world has been very stable in prices for over 3 years now. There has been a slight decrease in the upper end 640x480 cams, but that is mainly due to FLIR producing the T620/T640 and causing their own cams P/B 660 to come down in price.

Even the Electrophics units are selling at the same exact price they did 3-4 years ago.

I think you will see the 640x480 prices come down only once the end users start buying those cams up vs 320x240. I think the cost of production is still very high due to the lower demand.

In the IR market overall, I think we are seeing basically the bottom of prices right now. I wouldn't expect the huge price decreases like we have seen in the 160x120 and 320x240 world over the past couple of years. Most of those price decreases came due to competition between the manufacturers. I also think that manufacturers have realized that the market isn't as price sensitive as they once thought.

To be honest stable camera prices, at the end of the day, helps the real thermographiers. Just as a note to this, FLIR increased the E30 from $2495.00 to $2995.00 as of May 1st of this year. That is the first time I have seen a camera go up in price.

The only thing that will drive the price of the 640x480 down, other than higher demand, is someone putting one out for much cheaper. Fluke did this in the 320x240 arena with the Ti32. However, I wouldn't bank on this. Even if Fluke did put out a 640x480 cam (their new ones are only 160x120), I think they learned with the Ti32, that they don't need to beat the competition by 50%. We might see a $14,995 type of 640x480 soon....I guess technically Testo already did this with the 890-1, but there is no reason to buy an 890-1, someone at that price point would go with the 890-2.

Did anyone know that Milwaukee released a camera over 6 months ago....lol....nope! $2495.00 and from what I know, sales were a flop. I think the Ideal 47x47 rez. 300 mk cam. (yep, that is not a typo) actually did better in the first 6 months of sales, than the Milwaukee one.

Who knows, I could be completely wrong and Fluke releases their own 640x480 at $10,995 to $13,995....so don't take my word for it

Honestly, I think tech like what FLIR did with the Apple / Android thing and MSX is what we are going to be seeing more of. I also suspect a 1280x960 (native, not Super Resolution) detector by years end. Don't expect any type of good pricing though....my guess is $29,995 to $39,995....I suspect more like $34,995 to maybe as high as $49,995 due to the T640, because FLIR is the one that will be making it, if anyone does. 1280x960 (breaks the MP barrier...the crazy part is it is almost 1mp away from 640x480 with 921,600 more pixels than 640x480) detectors already exist, just not in a mass produced portable system....and I don't believe there is a 1280x960 LW detector right now. We might even start to see cameras that are MW and LW, or SW/MW/LW...who knows.

Jason Kaylor - JJ
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Last edited by jkaylor; 6/9/12 at 1:43 PM..
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