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  #1  
Old 2/28/09, 8:52 AM
John Evans John Evans is offline
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Default Fluke Tir & Tir1

Would like to know the differences between the Fluke Tir & Tir1 cameras as related to building inspections.



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Infraspection Certified Level 1 No. 7801
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  #2  
Old 2/28/09, 9:21 AM
Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI's Avatar
Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI is offline
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Default Re: Fluke Tir & Tir1

Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans View Post
Would like to know the differences between the Fluke Tir & Tir1 cameras as related to building inspections.


The difference is about $2,500.00 but the biggest difference is that you are able to input emissivity correction with the TiR1.

FLUKE SPECS





'Imagination is more important than knowledge' (sometimes)
Mario Kyriacou CHI CMI-
NACHI Canadian Member of the Year 2007

http://www.360degreesbuildinginspections.com


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  #3  
Old 2/28/09, 10:00 AM
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Kevin R. Weiss, TREC# 7108 Kevin R. Weiss, TREC# 7108 is offline
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Default Re: Fluke Tir & Tir1

The sensitivity of the TiR1 is much better. I think this is a very important spec for building inspections.
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  #4  
Old 2/28/09, 10:04 AM
John Evans John Evans is offline
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Default Re: Fluke Tir & Tir1

Berg Engineering is offering the TiR1 for $6388.00 delivered.



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  #5  
Old 2/28/09, 10:17 AM
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David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40 David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40 is offline
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Default Re: Fluke Tir & Tir1

Building inspection probably needs more emissivity than any other application, so don't be fooled by public opinion that it is not. The majority of your scans will be indirect measurements and the more indirect they are, the more resolution you will need.

Also, the misconception that correction for emissivity is unnecessary in building science is False. You can get a nice pretty picture, but until you add the numbers you don't know if it is significant or not. If you use the numbers then you must correct for emissivity and temperature reflect.



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  #6  
Old 2/28/09, 10:57 AM
Jason Kaylor Jason Kaylor is offline
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Default Re: Fluke Tir & Tir1

Quote:
Originally Posted by dandersen View Post
Building inspection probably needs more emissivity than any other application, so don't be fooled by public opinion that it is not. The majority of your scans will be indirect measurements and the more indirect they are, the more resolution you will need.

Also, the misconception that correction for emissivity is unnecessary in building science is False. You can get a nice pretty picture, but until you add the numbers you don't know if it is significant or not. If you use the numbers then you must correct for emissivity and temperature reflect.
John,

David is very correct about emissivity. We get calls all day long about the TiR, and with the exception of ghost hunters I normally talk the customer in to another unit that has on unit emissivity correction.

The difference between the two units are:

1. Thermal sensitivity - 100mk on the TiR and 70mk on the TiR1. Approx 30% better on the TiR1 and a very important statistic for building envelope diagnostics.

2. Emissivity correction - David covered that

3. Voice annotation - A bells and whistles type of feature. You can do a 60 second recording per image with the TiR1.

4. With the TiR1 you get on unit ability to use the Fusion ability with Min / Med / Max in both full screen and picture and picture. With the TiR you only get picture in picture ability.

5. Accuracy on the TiR1 is plus or minus 2C or 2% whichever is greater on the TiR it is plus or minus 5C or 5%.

6. TiR1 has auto hi low temperature spot markers.

7. You get a total of 7 color palettes to choose from with the TiR1 vs 4 for the TiR. This is a nice feature that most people do not cover when they compare the two units. Different color palettes are easier to use in different situations and personally I think the standard blue-red palette is very difficult to get and keep focus with.

Both units come with a 2 year warranty and SmartView 2.1 software free. You also get all upgrades for free.

I cannot stress the importance of training for any unit. If you are thinking about adding infrared to your business, then you are already in to it for $1695 for level I, and in the future another $1695 for level II. So if you are shopping on a budget that is something else to keep in mind.

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Last edited by jkaylor; 2/28/09 at 11:02 AM..
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  #7  
Old 2/28/09, 11:07 AM
Jerry Bettencourt Jerry Bettencourt is offline
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Default Re: Fluke Tir & Tir1

I have a TIR and for the price it is a pretty good camera for most home inspection needs, the guys are right about the sensitivity differences. Emissivity is correctable in the software with the TIR but that means longer report time at the office adjusting certain images to determine seriousness. It was the best I could afford at the time and it is serving me well, but I recommend you purchase the best camera you could currently afford because once you start in IR and get more training the more involved you will wish to become. You can see many of these guys that have started with introductory level cameras like the TIR or Bcams have moved on to more expensive higher level cameras as they became more involved with IR. If the TIR is all you can afford it is not a terrible choice for most home inspection and light commercial needs but if you can afford the TIR1 than I would say get it as you always want those additional features eventually.Best of luck.
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  #8  
Old 2/28/09, 12:45 PM
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William Warner William Warner is offline
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Default Re: Fluke Tir & Tir1

Amazing how we've come from a "good enough" stance to "better invest in a good camera not a good enough one" in just a matter of months.
I seem to recall saying this when everyone thought the $2000-4000 ones were "good enough".

That's education for ya.
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  #9  
Old 2/28/09, 10:26 PM
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John McKenna, CMI John McKenna, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Fluke Tir & Tir1

For an example... much of the home inspection is looking for moisture issues.

According to FLIR - ITC ... emissivity does NOT need to be adjusted when looking
at moisture anomalies, since the spot temperature is irrelevant. The pattern
is relevant. I can show the text books and copies of my letters with FLIR.

According to FLIR manufacturing, adjusting the emissivity will NOT enhance the
image that is viewed in the IR camera screen. It only affects the spot temperature.
If you do not agree, then call FLIR and argue with them. I have verified this
several times.

If the emissivity is adjusted AFTER the picture is loaded in the software, then it
can enhance the image at that time... and not before. Call FLIR if you do not
agree.

Let's stay with the facts.

The FLUKE TiR has an accuracy for the spot temperature measurement of
+-2 % when measuring high emisssivty areas like the plastic and rubber
associated with residential breakers and romex wire.

This is the same level of tolerance that master electricians use all the time
when doing spot temperature measurements on residential electrical systems
when they use an IR thermometer.

Let's stay with the facts.

I have verified this with the technical support of a multi-million dollar FLUKE
camera outlet, who was also a Level III thermographer that teaches
classes for U.S. government and others.

Just the facts. Any bets?




Thermal Imaging Video For Inspectors

John McKenna, CMI,
Building Science & Certified Level II Thermographer
InterNACHI's Thermal Imaging Instructor
Master Inspector Certification Board

Infrared Class - For Home Inspector



Last edited by jmckenna1; 2/28/09 at 10:29 PM..
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  #10  
Old 2/28/09, 10:45 PM
Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI's Avatar
Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI Mario A. Kyriacou, CHI is offline
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Default Re: Fluke Tir & Tir1

OK Let's just talk about the facts John!

Fact 1
  • Flir IR Camera's are the best in the industry!!
Fact 2
  • Flir IR Camera's are the best in the industry!!
Fact 3
  • Flir IR Camera's are the best in the industry!!





'Imagination is more important than knowledge' (sometimes)
Mario Kyriacou CHI CMI-
NACHI Canadian Member of the Year 2007

http://www.360degreesbuildinginspections.com


Tel.# 647-716-6132
e-mail torontohomeinspector@yahoo.com
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  #11  
Old 2/28/09, 11:14 PM
John McKenna, CMI's Avatar
John McKenna, CMI John McKenna, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Fluke Tir & Tir1

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkyriacou View Post
OK Let's just talk about the facts John!

Fact 1
  • Flir IR Camera's are the best in the industry!!
Fact 2
  • Flir IR Camera's are the best in the industry!!
Fact 3
  • Flir IR Camera's are the best in the industry!!
OK... that point is irrelevant to my statements...
but FLIR is a very very good camera.

I doubt any of my comments cause FLIR's reputation
to be damaged....




Thermal Imaging Video For Inspectors

John McKenna, CMI,
Building Science & Certified Level II Thermographer
InterNACHI's Thermal Imaging Instructor
Master Inspector Certification Board

Infrared Class - For Home Inspector


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  #12  
Old 3/1/09, 7:13 AM
John Evans John Evans is offline
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Default Re: Fluke Tir & Tir1

Where are we going with this thread? Just looking for clarity before I order a camera.



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Infraspection Certified Level 1 No. 7801
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  #13  
Old 3/1/09, 8:03 AM
Linas Dapkus, CMI's Avatar
Linas Dapkus, CMI Linas Dapkus, CMI is online now
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Default Re: Fluke Tir & Tir1

Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans View Post
Where are we going with this thread? Just looking for clarity before I order a camera.
John,
The bottom line is : you don't need a $10,000 camera to do home inspections.
Quote:
emissivity does NOT need to be adjusted when looking
at moisture anomalies, since the spot temperature is irrelevant. The pattern is relevant.



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  #14  
Old 3/1/09, 8:38 AM
John McKenna, CMI's Avatar
John McKenna, CMI John McKenna, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Fluke Tir & Tir1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ldapkus View Post
John,
The bottom line is : you don't need a $10,000 camera to do home inspections.
Exactly.




Thermal Imaging Video For Inspectors

John McKenna, CMI,
Building Science & Certified Level II Thermographer
InterNACHI's Thermal Imaging Instructor
Master Inspector Certification Board

Infrared Class - For Home Inspector


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  #15  
Old 3/1/09, 8:44 AM
John McKenna, CMI's Avatar
John McKenna, CMI John McKenna, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Fluke Tir & Tir1

I can help you get the lowest price IR camera of it's kind in the USA. No joke.
I do not sell cameras.




Thermal Imaging Video For Inspectors

John McKenna, CMI,
Building Science & Certified Level II Thermographer
InterNACHI's Thermal Imaging Instructor
Master Inspector Certification Board

Infrared Class - For Home Inspector


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