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  #1  
Old 3/22/13, 3:32 PM
Taylor Brown Taylor Brown is offline
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Default Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Hello,
We just had an inspection done on a home we are purchasing. The inspector used an infrared camera, and found what he believed to be moisture intrusion under many windows. He did not confirm anything with a moisture meter. I then emailed the pictures to an energy auditing company who then stated that they were certain the thermal images showed air leakages and not moisture intrusion. I don't know what to do to be honest. I was wondering if some of you inspectors with LOTS of experience with infrared devices can chime in and tell me what you think-- moisture or lack of insulation/air leaks??

You will have to copy and paste this link-- thermal images are at the bottom of the report:
http://www.nspec.com/login/brown/report.pdf
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  #2  
Old 3/22/13, 10:58 PM
Larry Kage, CMI's Avatar
Larry Kage, CMI Larry Kage, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor Brown View Post
Hello,
We just had an inspection done on a home we are purchasing. The inspector used an infrared camera, and found what he believed to be moisture intrusion under many windows. He did not confirm anything with a moisture meter. I then emailed the pictures to an energy auditing company who then stated that they were certain the thermal images showed air leakages and not moisture intrusion. I don't know what to do to be honest. I was wondering if some of you inspectors with LOTS of experience with infrared devices can chime in and tell me what you think-- moisture or lack of insulation/air leaks??

You will have to copy and paste this link-- thermal images are at the bottom of the report:
http://www.nspec.com/login/brown/report.pdf
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  #3  
Old 3/23/13, 1:38 AM
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Chuck Evans Chuck Evans is online now
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Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor Brown View Post
Hello,
We just had an inspection done on a home we are purchasing. The inspector used an infrared camera, and found what he believed to be moisture intrusion under many windows. He did not confirm anything with a moisture meter. I then emailed the pictures to an energy auditing company who then stated that they were certain the thermal images showed air leakages and not moisture intrusion. I don't know what to do to be honest. I was wondering if some of you inspectors with LOTS of experience with infrared devices can chime in and tell me what you think-- moisture or lack of insulation/air leaks??

You will have to copy and paste this link-- thermal images are at the bottom of the report:
http://www.nspec.com/login/brown/report.pdf
An essential part of any infrared inspection is confirmation of thermal anomalies. While moisture intrusion and air leakage each have different "typical" thermal patterns, suspected moisture related issues should always be verified, whenever possible (verification can be done without a moisture meter if evidence of moisture is visible).

Neither the home inspector or the energy auditing company can give you a definitive answer as to the cause of the anomaly without verification.

Your home inspector indicates that he is Level-I certified through ITC (an internationally recognized thermography training organization). A level-I thermographer should be qualified to perform this type of analysis. He should have the tools and knowledge needed to verify his findings.

I would ask him to either present his verification or come back out and verify if he didn't already do so.



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  #4  
Old 3/23/13, 2:38 AM
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Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor Brown View Post
Hello,
We just had an inspection done on a home we are purchasing. The inspector used an infrared camera, and found what he believed to be moisture intrusion under many windows. He did not confirm anything with a moisture meter. I then emailed the pictures to an energy auditing company who then stated that they were certain the thermal images showed air leakages and not moisture intrusion. I don't know what to do to be honest. I was wondering if some of you inspectors with LOTS of experience with infrared devices can chime in and tell me what you think-- moisture or lack of insulation/air leaks??

You will have to copy and paste this link-- thermal images are at the bottom of the report:
http://www.nspec.com/login/brown/report.pdf
For the Inspector:

Without testing equipment your basically just taking pictures with no definitive answer or true meaning available, nobody here can guess if any moisture is present.

Back up your findings with test equipment, whether moisture or electrical equipment, and not one product fits all situations either, its good to have an assortment, their cheap, but needed.

I bet you won't do this again, everyone has to start some where, we all know this, nobody is calling names or belittling, but please learn the basic techniques to perform thermal imaging.

Last edited by dduffy; 3/23/13 at 11:54 PM..
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  #5  
Old 3/23/13, 3:31 AM
Tim Spargo, CMI's Avatar
Tim Spargo, CMI Tim Spargo, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

I assume many of us confirm/approach very similar.

If it's *faint* I've measured the area with 2 meters... just to be sure as well. I assume I have responsibility to be sure "It's wet" if I say it is... with or without IR, as I assume that there's a decent chance someone's gonna cut into/demo a wall/ceiling whatever. Also, as part of a QA program, I'll set a calendar event to make sure the protimeter(s) are within tolerance.


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  #6  
Old 3/23/13, 12:17 PM
Taylor Brown Taylor Brown is offline
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Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Here is the login info:

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Pass: 1303141
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  #7  
Old 3/23/13, 1:33 PM
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William Warner William Warner is offline
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Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

The reports certainly leave some things to be desired and creates a number of additional questions.

As Chuck indicated, only the inspector can present his methods and proof of verification for active moisture. "Suspect" moisture as he terms in the report is not acceptable reporting for areas which were obviously readily accessible for verification via additional equipment in my opinion.
Where air infiltration occurs, moisture intrusion and condensation related moisture can also occur... but again these conditions must be verified with additional equipment.

Recommend you contact your inspector to provide his explanation of verification methods beyond visual and thermographic observations. If no further verification was performed, you will likely need to employ a more qualified professional to determine further.
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  #8  
Old 3/23/13, 2:37 PM
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Bob Elliott, 450.0002662 Bob Elliott, 450.0002662 is online now
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Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Interesting thread here.
Posting a few shots below.
Notice how he only suspects but in number 4 is positive .
My guess is he based that on the temp at the baseboards and streak pattern.

Also noted he has a large box fan on the rug...maybe he used that ?
Do not use ir but even I know a moisture meter should have be used to confirm.

He sure does go detailed on the GFCI trip time however.

Moisture Intrusion under windows??-ir-windows-jpgMoisture Intrusion under windows??-ir-windows2-jpgMoisture Intrusion under windows??-ir-windows-4-jpg
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  #9  
Old 3/23/13, 3:49 PM
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI's Avatar
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI Marcel R. Cyr, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwarner View Post
The reports certainly leave some things to be desired and creates a number of additional questions.

As Chuck indicated, only the inspector can present his methods and proof of verification for active moisture. "Suspect" moisture as he terms in the report is not acceptable reporting for areas which were obviously readily accessible for verification via additional equipment in my opinion.
Where air infiltration occurs, moisture intrusion and condensation related moisture can also occur... but again these conditions must be verified with additional equipment.

Recommend you contact your inspector to provide his explanation of verification methods beyond visual and thermographic observations. If no further verification was performed, you will likely need to employ a more qualified professional to determine further.
I agree Bill, what a cheesy Inspection report that is.
I am not into IR, but can say that it all looks like lack of insulation, foaming of cracks and lack of caulking providing air infiltration.

Report says temperature of 41-62, did he know the exact temp.?

Static water pressure 66-80. Sounds like the optimum not the existing condition.

Ground frozen at 41-62?? Wow.



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  #10  
Old 3/23/13, 4:13 PM
William Warner's Avatar
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Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

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Originally Posted by mcyr View Post
I agree Bill, what a cheesy Inspection report that is.
I am not into IR, but can say that it all looks like lack of insulation, foaming of cracks and lack of caulking providing air infiltration.

Report says temperature of 41-62, did he know the exact temp.?

Static water pressure 66-80. Sounds like the optimum not the existing condition.

Ground frozen at 41-62?? Wow.

I'm extremely unimpressed at the quality of the end product and lack of useful information for the stated cost of inspections. Imagine being an out-of-state client not able to attend the inspection...
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  #11  
Old 3/23/13, 4:28 PM
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI's Avatar
Marcel R. Cyr, CMI Marcel R. Cyr, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

I am sure there are a lot like these. I would not even call that a report.
Grab the money and run.



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  #12  
Old 3/23/13, 4:57 PM
Taylor Brown Taylor Brown is offline
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Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Yes-- looking back I am not satisfied much with his inspection. It didn't even dawn on me until a couple days after that he hadn't even gotten onto the roof to check anything!! I am so frustrated, but we are in a pickle right now. We felt better after talking with the energy auditing company, so we had decided to move forward and are now past the inspection period where we could back out. Have any of you ever gone into a house after the inspection but prior to closing to check on something for a client? I would love to get some moisture readings before signing on the dotted line.
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  #13  
Old 3/23/13, 5:13 PM
David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40's Avatar
David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40 David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40 is offline
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Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Quote:
I'm extremely unimpressed at the quality of the end product and lack of useful information for the stated cost of inspections. Imagine being an out-of-state client not able to attend the inspection...
I am not only extremely "unimpressed" at the quality but I am extremely flabbergasted!

I don't like to call things out over the Internet but this appears to be total "BS"!



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  #14  
Old 3/23/13, 5:34 PM
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Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Quote:
Originally Posted by dandersen View Post
I am not only extremely "unimpressed" at the quality but I am extremely flabbergasted!

I don't like to call things out over the Internet but this appears to be total "BS"!
His sample report on the website says it is not...
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  #15  
Old 3/23/13, 7:01 PM
David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40's Avatar
David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40 David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40 is offline
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Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

I find myself extremely intolerant of stupid crap this week. It is coming at me from all directions. I apologize for my intolerance, but I'm not going to change my ways, sorry! If you're wrong I'll tell you so.

Would you have it any other way?



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