Go Back   InterNACHI Inspection Forum > >

Notices

Thermal Imaging, Infrared Cameras & Energy Audits Contains discussions about thermal imaging, infrared cameras, energy audits, and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 3/23/13, 7:20 PM
Tim Spargo, CMI's Avatar
Tim Spargo, CMI Tim Spargo, CMI is offline
Certified Master Inspector
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Lancaster, CA
Posts: 5,047
Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor Brown View Post
Yes-- looking back I am not satisfied much with his inspection. It didn't even dawn on me until a couple days after that he hadn't even gotten onto the roof to check anything!! I am so frustrated, but we are in a pickle right now. We felt better after talking with the energy auditing company, so we had decided to move forward and are now past the inspection period where we could back out. Have any of you ever gone into a house after the inspection but prior to closing to check on something for a client? I would love to get some moisture readings before signing on the dotted line.
The information should be pretty easy to get... you're certain no moisture meter was used? Seems a bit strange...

I would suppose if possible moisture intrusion was mentioned in several areas of your potential purchase, it would seem at least prudent to follow up on now versus later... all things being equal, better safe than sorry, that's why you hired the gentleman in the first place.

Anyway, you can probably do a quick search of guys in your area or post your geographical area and a request for help here.

by the way... you should see a picture of a meter if things are... wet.
Attached Thumbnails
Moisture Intrusion under windows??-moisture-meter-jpg  



Home Inspections in Palmdale Lancaster California

Tim Spargo
Spec Rite Inspections
Commercial and Residential Inspections
Flir / Infrared Training Center Certified Thermographer # 66059
Palmdale Lancaster Santa Clarita CA
661-317-5770


Reply With Quote
Need a home inspection in Michigan? Check out InterNACHI's listing of Michigan certified home inspectors. Or, find a home inspector anywhere in the world with our inspection search engine.
  #17  
Old 3/23/13, 7:22 PM
Barry Adair's Avatar
Barry Adair Barry Adair is offline
Certified Professional Inspector (CPI) ®
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: this side of Texas dirt, another successful day
Posts: 4,537
Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor Brown View Post
Yes-- looking back I am not satisfied much with his inspection. It didn't even dawn on me until a couple days after that he hadn't even gotten onto the roof to check anything!! I am so frustrated, but we are in a pickle right now. We felt better after talking with the energy auditing company, so we had decided to move forward and are now past the inspection period where we could back out. Have any of you ever gone into a house after the inspection but prior to closing to check on something for a client? I would love to get some moisture readings before signing on the dotted line.
some of us verify post inspection repair completion or do a complete inspection for customers that aren't confident with prior inspection reports
Dan Bowers works the KCKSMO market



badair

ADAIR INSPECTION
972-487-5634

Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS/Stucco-Infrared Thermography
TREC # 4563
EDI: EIFS-MA TX # 39

National Association of Commercial Building Inspectors & Thermographers™ Member ID 12011-14TX

life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes...accept the good


Father Sky
Mother Earth
Children of the Universe
Forever Free
Always at Peace
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 3/23/13, 7:43 PM
David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40's Avatar
David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40 David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40 is offline
Retired Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 10,594
Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

I would consider this an unfortunate lesson learned and would buy the house without any further consideration.

This is based upon the facts listed in the inspection report.

There is nothing there that would constitute a significant defect that requires immediate evaluation in a new construction building. There are no other associated conditions with this alleged moisture intrusion. All thermal anomalies appear to the air leakage (which could become a moisture condition in the summertime, not in the wintertime).

These are scans that I took of totally insignificant issues in a new construction property yesterday. If you look outside the obvious anomalies, you'll see things such as thermal bridging and thermal bypass that are way beyond what are posted in the inspection report in question.

These anomalies do not require repair based upon the standards that my inspection property was constructed.

I would recommend that you have this Inspector come back and do the moisture testing that should have been done before he put this stuff in the Inspection report however...
Attached Thumbnails
Moisture Intrusion under windows??-ir_0470-jpg   Moisture Intrusion under windows??-ir_0468-jpg  



David A. Andersen & Associates
Clarksville - Nashville Home Inspector Lic#40 (Retired)
ITC Level III Thermographer Cert#1958
Building Science Thermographer Cert#33784
HVAC Certification EPA Cert#2046620
BPI# 5015804
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 3/23/13, 7:49 PM
Taylor Brown Taylor Brown is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5
Please Note: Taylor Brown is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Quote:
Originally Posted by dandersen View Post
I would consider this an unfortunate lesson learned and would buy the house without any further consideration.

This is based upon the facts listed in the inspection report.

There is nothing there that would constitute a significant defect that requires immediate evaluation in a new construction building. There are no other associated conditions with this alleged moisture intrusion. All thermal anomalies appear to the air leakage (which could become a moisture condition in the summertime, not in the wintertime).

These are scans that I took of totally insignificant issues in a new construction property yesterday. If you look outside the obvious anomalies, you'll see things such as thermal bridging and thermal bypass that are way beyond what are posted in the inspection report in question.

These anomalies do not require repair based upon the standards that my inspection property was constructed.

I would recommend that you have this Inspector come back and do the moisture testing that should have been done before he put this stuff in the Inspection report however...

So David,

If I understand you correctly, it appears to you as if these could be just insulation/ air leakage type issues, and probably not moisture?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 3/23/13, 8:22 PM
Bob Elliott, 450.0002662's Avatar
Bob Elliott, 450.0002662 Bob Elliott, 450.0002662 is online now
Certified Professional Inspector (CPI) ®
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 37,739
Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Taylor did you call the inspector back and ask him any of these questions ?
Going on a forum everyone is better than the other guy.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 3/23/13, 8:37 PM
David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40's Avatar
David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40 David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40 is offline
Retired Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 10,594
Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

1. Moisture has not been verified.
2. Location is likely air penetration.
3. Shape of anomaly looks like air.
4. Anomaly has wrong temp for it to be moisture.

Warning: Air infiltration In TN = moisture in the summer.
But have not seen anything significant in that report.

Call me 615 406-6808

Quote:
Going on a forum everyone is better than the other guy.
In this case; I am...



David A. Andersen & Associates
Clarksville - Nashville Home Inspector Lic#40 (Retired)
ITC Level III Thermographer Cert#1958
Building Science Thermographer Cert#33784
HVAC Certification EPA Cert#2046620
BPI# 5015804
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 3/23/13, 8:44 PM
Taylor Brown Taylor Brown is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5
Please Note: Taylor Brown is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Quote:
Originally Posted by belliott View Post
Taylor did you call the inspector back and ask him any of these questions ?
Going on a forum everyone is better than the other guy.
Bob,
I had talked to him a couple days after the inspection to try to get some clarification on why he thought one pic showed air leakage and the others moisture. He said it was the streak pattern that showed air leakage and the rest he felt showed moisture. So I have him saying moisture and the energy auditors saying lack of insulation (they say they have used infrared for years and from what this guy said on the phone, it seems like he didn't feel this guy knew quite what he was talking about). It is just really confusing, and hard to tell who is "right." But like several of you pointed out, apparently you have to confirm the moisture with something other than IR.

Thank you to everyone so far who has given me your opinions!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 3/23/13, 8:55 PM
Bob Elliott, 450.0002662's Avatar
Bob Elliott, 450.0002662 Bob Elliott, 450.0002662 is online now
Certified Professional Inspector (CPI) ®
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 37,739
Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Quote:
4. Anomaly has wrong temp for it to be moisture.
With outdoor temp of 44 degrees and assuming (72)? indoors what temperature would you expect ?
I see some of the suspect image areas are 54 degrees as others are 44 degrees. Facing different direction perhaps?

Did not note RH if that is a factor and there is that box fan he perhaps may have used.

Just curious what you see.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 3/23/13, 8:59 PM
Michael Larson's Avatar
Michael Larson Michael Larson is online now
Certified Professional Inspector (CPI)
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hudson, WI including the Twin Cities of MN
Posts: 74,991
Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Quote:
Originally Posted by belliott View Post
With outdoor temp of 44 degrees and assuming (72)? indoors what temperature would you expect ?
I see some of the suspect image areas are 54 degrees as others are 44 degrees. Facing different direction perhaps?

Did not note RH if that is a factor and there is that box fan he perhaps may have used.

Just curious what you see.
You do not own a thermal camera, correct?

Looks like air to me in most of the report.

And for the life of me and cannot understand why no verification of moisture was done before calling it out as moisture problem.



As a Professional Home Inspector, I support the privacy of my clients.

You own your private information. I won't sell or give away yours, others do


www.InspectraPro.com
www.MinnesotaHomeInspector.biz

Michael Larson
Hudson, WI

Services provided in East MN and West WI

Call me


Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 3/23/13, 9:10 PM
William Warner's Avatar
William Warner William Warner is offline
Certified Professional Inspector (CPI)
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 3,723
Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

I completely agree with Dave on this one.

Most of the images in the report look like everyday insignificant items and common air infiltration. If the inspector truly did not verify his findings, the report is not worth the PDF it is written on.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 3/23/13, 9:20 PM
Dennis R. Goudreau Dennis R. Goudreau is offline
Community Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 2,280
Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Quote:
Originally Posted by dandersen View Post
1. Moisture has not been verified.
2. Location is likely air penetration.
3. Shape of anomaly looks like air.
4. Anomaly has wrong temp for it to be moisture.

Warning: Air infiltration In TN = moisture in the summer.
But have not seen anything significant in that report.

Call me 615 406-6808


In this case; I am...

ditto Dave
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 3/23/13, 10:00 PM
Bob Elliott, 450.0002662's Avatar
Bob Elliott, 450.0002662 Bob Elliott, 450.0002662 is online now
Certified Professional Inspector (CPI) ®
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 37,739
Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlarson View Post
You do not own a thermal camera, correct?

Looks like air to me in most of the report.

And for the life of me and cannot understand why no verification of moisture was done before calling it out as moisture problem.
Conidering my question was towards David and not you your total lack of answer due to you not having a clue here is obtrusive as my question has nothing to do with if I own one so pwrhaps you should shut up and learn without posting nonsense.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 3/23/13, 10:10 PM
Michael Larson's Avatar
Michael Larson Michael Larson is online now
Certified Professional Inspector (CPI)
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hudson, WI including the Twin Cities of MN
Posts: 74,991
Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Quote:
Originally Posted by belliott View Post
Conidering my question was towards David and not you your total lack of answer due to you not having a clue here is obtrusive as my question has nothing to do with if I own one so pwrhaps you should shut up and learn without posting nonsense.
the word you need to understand is qualitative.

http://regentsprep.org/REgents/math/.../qualquant.htm

You are looking for quantitative answers.

Patterns are much more relevant than temps in this case.



As a Professional Home Inspector, I support the privacy of my clients.

You own your private information. I won't sell or give away yours, others do


www.InspectraPro.com
www.MinnesotaHomeInspector.biz

Michael Larson
Hudson, WI

Services provided in East MN and West WI

Call me


Reply With Quote
Need a home inspection in Michigan? Check out InterNACHI's listing of Michigan certified home inspectors. Or, find a home inspector anywhere in the world with our inspection search engine.
  #29  
Old 3/23/13, 10:25 PM
David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40's Avatar
David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40 David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40 is offline
Retired Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 10,594
Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Quote:
Originally Posted by belliott View Post
With outdoor temp of 44 degrees and assuming (72)? indoors what temperature would you expect ?
I see some of the suspect image areas are 54 degrees as others are 44 degrees. Facing different direction perhaps?

Did not note RH if that is a factor and there is that box fan he perhaps may have used.

Just curious what you see.
Bob, After the years, things just pop out.
There is not enough information in the report (that's obvious).
Look up weather records...
Rh is required, wb is required, OA, IA,...

An isotherm was used in may of these scans that unlike mine, are used to "extend" the exception beyond the normal boundaries rather deep into them...

He is making a bigger deal of something that is not really there.

Some scans are from the basement, some from main floor.
They will be different.

Moisture is generally within 4 degrees F of IA.

I have about 7,000 scans of air vs. moisture (as well as air causing moisture) that were "confirmed" exceptions. Something to draw from.



David A. Andersen & Associates
Clarksville - Nashville Home Inspector Lic#40 (Retired)
ITC Level III Thermographer Cert#1958
Building Science Thermographer Cert#33784
HVAC Certification EPA Cert#2046620
BPI# 5015804
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 3/23/13, 10:33 PM
David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40's Avatar
David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40 David A. Andersen, TN HI# 40 is offline
Retired Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 10,594
Default Re: Moisture Intrusion under windows??

Pay attention:

After talking with the buyer, the biggest concern here is that this report will initiate "Further investigation" and added expense to the seller and ultimately the buyer.

What happens when ripping the walls out to find the moisture and mold results in nothing but air? Who is going to pay for this deferral?

This is not Home Inspection!
You don't find Blue Spots and recommend further evaluation. It's your damn job to find out (now that you took out that camera and called it)!



David A. Andersen & Associates
Clarksville - Nashville Home Inspector Lic#40 (Retired)
ITC Level III Thermographer Cert#1958
Building Science Thermographer Cert#33784
HVAC Certification EPA Cert#2046620
BPI# 5015804
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
IAC2 In new residential construction mcyr IAC2 Indoor Air Forum 0 10/9/07 7:45 PM
Moisture in slabs mcyr Structural Inspections 7 8/20/07 8:33 PM
water/moisture intrusion at new windows mcameron Exterior Inspections 4 7/11/07 5:52 PM
New forum for mold & moisture intrusion Iaqforum Deuitch Inspecting HVAC Systems 0 1/3/07 11:47 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:02 PM.
no new posts