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  #1  
Old 1/8/19, 9:35 AM
Ted Emmes's Avatar
Ted Emmes Ted Emmes is offline
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Default Missing main panel legend

Would you call out the fact there is no legend or identification of breakers on a main panel during a 4 Pt?
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  #2  
Old 1/8/19, 9:40 AM
Roy Lewis, CMI's Avatar
Roy Lewis, CMI Roy Lewis, CMI is online now
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Default Re: Missing main panel legend

Yes!
"Breakers were not properly labeled. All breakers should be labeled as to show their intended purpose. "




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  #3  
Old 1/8/19, 9:59 AM
Ted Emmes's Avatar
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Default Re: Missing main panel legend

Thank you, my thoughts exactly.


Just settling a disagreement with another inspector.
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  #4  
Old 1/8/19, 10:58 AM
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Marc A. Goldenberg Marc A. Goldenberg is offline
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Default Re: Missing main panel legend

requirement of the National Electric Code: (breakers/circuits not labeled)

408.4 Circuit Directory or Circuit Identification.
Every circuit and circuit modification shall be legibly identified as to its clear,
evident, and specific purpose or use.
The identification shall include sufficient detail to allow each circuit to be distinguished from all others.




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  #5  
Old 1/10/19, 5:27 PM
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Joseph Burkeson, CMI Joseph Burkeson, CMI is online now
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Default Re: Missing main panel legend

When did a 4 point turn insurance inspection into a code inspection, and where is the 'panel legend' check box on the four point form?

Why would anyone make it harder for their clients to obtain insurance?



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  #6  
Old 1/10/19, 7:30 PM
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Default Re: Missing main panel legend

Quote:
Originally Posted by jburkeson1 View Post
When did a 4 point turn insurance inspection into a code inspection, and where is the 'panel legend' check box on the four point form?

Why would anyone make it harder for their clients to obtain insurance?
That isn't your choice dirtbag..
It is what it is..And nothing can change that..




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  #7  
Old 1/10/19, 7:40 PM
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Marc A. Goldenberg Marc A. Goldenberg is offline
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Default Re: Missing main panel legend

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlewis5 View Post
That isn't your choice dirtbag..
It is what it is..And nothing can change that..
Maybe someone in his family will get electrocuted 'cause they cannot find the breaker to switch off.



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  #8  
Old 1/10/19, 9:09 PM
Mike Pagozalski, CMI Mike Pagozalski, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Missing main panel legend

Quote:
Originally Posted by jburkeson1 View Post
When did a 4 point turn insurance inspection into a code inspection, and where is the 'panel legend' check box on the four point form?

Why would anyone make it harder for their clients to obtain insurance?
I would check the "other" box......




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  #9  
Old 1/14/19, 1:37 PM
Eric C. Van De Ven, CMI Eric C. Van De Ven, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Missing main panel legend

Quote:
Originally Posted by jburkeson1 View Post
When did a 4 point turn insurance inspection into a code inspection, and where is the 'panel legend' check box on the four point form?

Why would anyone make it harder for their clients to obtain insurance?
Because if the insurance company sends out their own inspector, and he finds it along with other items that were omitted "to make it easier for the client to obtain insurance", said client may be a little upset with someone. Care to guess who that "someone" might be?

I run into this very issue on several occasions and simply say, "Ask the previous inspector for your money back".

Getting back to the original question, absolutely write it up.
Regardless if it is code or not, one might want to know what a certain breaker controls.............
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  #10  
Old 1/14/19, 2:06 PM
Joseph Burkeson, CMI's Avatar
Joseph Burkeson, CMI Joseph Burkeson, CMI is online now
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Default Re: Missing main panel legend

Quote:
Originally Posted by evandeven View Post
Because if the insurance company sends out their own inspector, and he finds it along with other items that were omitted "to make it easier for the client to obtain insurance", said client may be a little upset with someone. Care to guess who that "someone" might be?

I run into this very issue on several occasions and simply say, "Ask the previous inspector for your money back".

Getting back to the original question, absolutely write it up.
Regardless if it is code or not, one might want to know what a certain breaker controls.............
I provide the all information asked for on the form. If and when the Florida Office of Insurance Regulation ever updates the Four Point Form to include a checkbox for 'Panel Legend' I will then make it a business practice to do so. In the meantime, I simply choose not to manufacture problems which would hinder my client from obtaining insurance by supplementing information the insurance companies have apparently deemed inconsequential to underwriting.



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  #11  
Old 1/14/19, 2:06 PM
Roy Lewis, CMI's Avatar
Roy Lewis, CMI Roy Lewis, CMI is online now
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Default Re: Missing main panel legend

I don't think the Florida Office of Insurance Regulation has anything to do with it...
It's the insurance companies.

How about this on the form ..
Adverse conditions or updates needed?




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  #12  
Old 1/14/19, 2:34 PM
Eric C. Van De Ven, CMI Eric C. Van De Ven, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Missing main panel legend

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlewis5 View Post
I don't think the Florida Office of Insurance Regulation has anything to do with it...
It's the insurance companies.

How about this on the form ..
Adverse conditions or updates needed?
Or if using the citizens form:
The Florida-licensed inspector is required to certify the condition of the electrical, HVAC and plumbing systems. Acceptable
Condition means that each system is working as intended and there are no visible hazards or deficiencies.

Is breaker panel that isn't labeled a deficiency?

Then...there is this: All 4-Point inspection Forms must be completed and signed by a verifiable Florida-licensed Inspector.
I certify that the above statements are true and correct.

To each his own....

Oh, Joe, several insurance companies, including the 2 I have used for our rental property as well as our home in Palm City, sent their inspectors out..just sayin.......
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  #13  
Old 1/14/19, 3:35 PM
Joseph Burkeson, CMI's Avatar
Joseph Burkeson, CMI Joseph Burkeson, CMI is online now
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Default Re: Missing main panel legend

Quote:
Originally Posted by evandeven View Post
Is breaker panel that isn't labeled a deficiency?
Guess it depends who you ask. My business model respects that the Insurance Companies, policy underwriters and the Office of Insurance Regulation have intentionally limited 'The Four Point Form' to items deemed important to the underwriting community, and at this point assume that 'Panel Directories' like the many other 'missing' items of importance are simply inconsequential noise when it comes to underwriting policy decisions. It is not my form, I only provide the data of what is asked.



Let us never forget... Hillary Clinton won the Popular Vote.


Certified Master Inspector - 2010
Florida Licensed Home Inspector - HI176
Florida Licensed Mold Assessor - MRSA208

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  #14  
Old 1/15/19, 8:19 AM
Eric C. Van De Ven, CMI Eric C. Van De Ven, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Missing main panel legend

Quote:
Originally Posted by jburkeson1 View Post
Guess it depends who you ask. My business model respects that the Insurance Companies, policy underwriters and the Office of Insurance Regulation have intentionally limited 'The Four Point Form' to items deemed important to the underwriting community, and at this point assume that 'Panel Directories' like the many other 'missing' items of importance are simply inconsequential noise when it comes to underwriting policy decisions. It is not my form, I only provide the data of what is asked.
As stated by others, the OIR has noting to do with it.
Each insurance company will determine what they are willing to accept to issue a policy.

I wouldn't want to "assume" what they are looking for.
I simply provide the information and let them choose what they want fixed.
If they don't care about the panel not being labeled or "missing items of importance", fine.

That decision isn't up to me.
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  #15  
Old 1/15/19, 8:33 PM
Kevin D. Brown Kevin D. Brown is offline
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Default Re: Missing main panel legend

A missing fuse panel legend should be called out as a defect
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