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  #61  
Old 4/27/13, 2:33 PM
Jay C. Murray's Avatar
Jay C. Murray Jay C. Murray is offline
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Default Re: Recall Check will not be permitted in Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by staylor7 View Post
Either I am confused or you are confused with your second sentence above regarding the CILB. The CILB does not regulate home inspectors. Why would home inspectors be trying to force an entity (CILB) to allow something for which they have no jurisdiction? Please clarify.
The real question is, Why would the HI's be trying to force the CILB to limit a cornerstone of the contractors licensing. The ability to hire non-licensed employees.

As to the confusion, I remain confused. Seriously Steve, last I heard that they are under the CILB until the creation of a HI board. I could be very wrong.

Go back and read the different posts over the last couple of years. It's a joke.



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The Palm Beaches, & The Treasure Coast
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  #62  
Old 4/27/13, 2:45 PM
Steve Taylor, CMI Steve Taylor, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Recall Check will not be permitted in Florida

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Originally Posted by jmurray4 View Post
The real question is, Why would the HI's be trying to force the CILB to limit a cornerstone of the contractors licensing. The ability to hire non-licensed employees.

As to the confusion, I remain confused. Seriously Steve, last I heard that they are under the CILB until the creation of a HI board. I could be very wrong.

Go back and read the different posts over the last couple of years. It's a joke.

Again, you are missing the point. The issue is not with contractors utilizing unlicensed employees. The issue is denying that same ability to the other licensees enumerated in FS 627.711 (also small business owners)- thereby giving contractors and engineers an unfair market advantage.

Home inspector licensing (since implementation) has not been under the CILB. Home inspector licensing is under the "home inspector licensing division" of DBPR. As for a home inspector "board" like the CILB, that topic is still open for discussion. Some home inspectors want a "board" to over see home inspector licensing (similar to the CILB) and some home inspectors are adamant against the formation of a home inspection licensing board.



Steve Taylor
Taylor Inspection Services, Inc.
Atlantic Beach Florida 32233
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www.taylorinspectionservices.com
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  #63  
Old 4/27/13, 2:45 PM
Jay C. Murray's Avatar
Jay C. Murray Jay C. Murray is offline
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Default Re: Recall Check will not be permitted in Florida

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Originally Posted by staylor7 View Post
Actually, that "complaint" or concern is not against contractors as it is against the unfair trade practice. The concern is a legitimate issue. As I suspect you know, FS 627.711 allows contractors and engineers to utilize "unlicensed" employees to perform wind mitigation inspections for their respective companies (small businesses) while denying that right to building code officials, architects, and the lowly home inspector (also small business owners), That advantage affords the contractor and engineer business owner a distinct market advantage over the other small business owners enumerated in the statute. The unfair advantage likely is a violation of the unfair trade practice act. (FS. 501.204): 501.204 Unlawful acts and practices.—
(1) Unfair methods of competition, unconscionable acts or practices, and unfair or deceptive acts or practices in the conduct of any trade or commerce are hereby declared unlawful.
(2) It is the intent of the Legislature that, in construing subsection (1), due consideration and great weight shall be given to the interpretations of the Federal Trade Commission and the federal courts relating to s. 5(a)(1) of the Federal Trade Commission Act, 15 U.S.C. s. 45(a)(1) as of July 1, 2006.

Your perception of home inspectors complaining against the contractors is an inaccurate assessment.
Honestly, you are off to a bad start. The inspection we are talking about can only apply to wind mitigation insurance inspections. So by going after one minor part of the inspection industry, you would alienate what may be your strongest ally?

There are long standing rules that allow certain licenses to hire non-licensed employees to work under their licenses. Your not going to change that.

Yet, instead of focusing on the benifit of HI's, we want to go after the contractors?



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  #64  
Old 4/27/13, 2:48 PM
Steve Taylor, CMI Steve Taylor, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Recall Check will not be permitted in Florida

I give up. I am unable to articulate the issue.



Steve Taylor
Taylor Inspection Services, Inc.
Atlantic Beach Florida 32233
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  #65  
Old 4/27/13, 2:52 PM
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Russell J. Hensel Russell J. Hensel is offline
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Default Re: Recall Check will not be permitted in Florida

Come on guys..it's not about the f'ing wind mits. Stay on message and focus.

This bickering is what it always results in, lets stop it. Stay on point...

So Steven. What is an inspector to do to hear your ideas?

I have a message board that is private that we can restrict people and no me can view, would that help?



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  #66  
Old 4/27/13, 2:58 PM
Steve Taylor, CMI Steve Taylor, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Recall Check will not be permitted in Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhensel View Post
Come on guys..it's not about the f'ing wind mits. Stay on message and focus.

This bickering is what it always results in, lets stop it. Stay on point...

So Steven. What is an inspector to do to hear your ideas?

I have a message board that is private that we can restrict people and no me can view, would that help?
Yes, I believe that we need to discuss any plans to combat this in a private forum.

I am sorry if I appear to be bickering on the unfair trade practice issue. That was certainly not my intent. and yes, I agree, we have more important issues at this time. I also sent you an email regarding a plan.



Steve Taylor
Taylor Inspection Services, Inc.
Atlantic Beach Florida 32233
904-247-6700
www.taylorinspectionservices.com
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  #67  
Old 4/27/13, 3:00 PM
Jay C. Murray's Avatar
Jay C. Murray Jay C. Murray is offline
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Default Re: Recall Check will not be permitted in Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhensel View Post
Come on guys..it's not about the f'ing wind mits. Stay on message and focus.

This bickering is what it always results in, lets stop it. Stay on point...

So Steven. What is an inspector to do to hear your ideas?

I have a message board that is private that we can restrict people and no me can view, would that help?
Steve, Peace. I want what's best for the industry.

Russel, that is a good question. Getting Florida HI's to unite and focus has been like herding cats. I would suggest that a do able list of goals would be smart. Starting with getting some HI input on the formation of the SOP.
Maybe a written reaction, comments, and possible changes to the published draft.



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Jay C. Murray
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Licensed General Contractor & Home Inspector
Serving Port St. Lucie, Ft. Pierce, Stuart, Palm City, Jensen Beach,
The Palm Beaches, & The Treasure Coast
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  #68  
Old 4/27/13, 3:09 PM
Mike O'Handley Mike O'Handley is offline
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Default Re: Recall Check will not be permitted in Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by jburkeson1 View Post
I love licensing, the $99 home inspection printed on 3-pages will become the norm, thank you Jebus.

Inspect99.Com
That's not what happened here. Every experienced inspector I know raised his prices and is taking in all of the work that he or she wants to take in. I've been turning away twice as many jobs as I accept and have been referring those callers to other experienced inspectors that I'd trust to inspect my own home.

I do get a lot of calls from price shoppers looking for those kind of prices but I'm really not interested in getting their business if all they care about is hiring the guy with the lowest price.

The new folks still continue to lowball one another in hopes of garnering more work. They still haven't figured out that low-balling their competition makes them look like dollar store inspectors. In a tech-savvy market like ours, you don't want to look like a dollar store inspector if you can help it because slogging along doing low-dollar inspections won't earn you enough to stay in business long enough to get out of the red while it leaves you more exposed to liability than everyone else.

It doesn't seem to matter how many times myself or other experienced guys try to explain to the new guys that they must charge enough to pay their bills and feed their families if they hope to stay in business, most just keep right on trying to lowball one another while we old timers just shake our heads, do fewer inspections for more money and stay as busy as we want to be.

Mike O'Handley
Kenmore, Washington
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  #69  
Old 4/27/13, 3:11 PM
Steve Taylor, CMI Steve Taylor, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Recall Check will not be permitted in Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmurray4 View Post
Steve, Peace. I want what's best for the industry.

Russel, that is a good question. Getting Florida HI's to unite and focus has been like herding cats. I would suggest that a do able list of goals would be smart. Starting with getting some HI input on the formation of the SOP.
Maybe a written reaction, comments, and possible changes to the published draft.
A written reaction and comments have been submitted (by me with my personal concerns and not acting or speaking for anyone else or any official organization). Proposed changes and suggested language is in progress as a fall back position and will be submitted to DBPR (by me as an individual affected business owner). I would not be presumptuous to imply to the DBPR powers that I speak on behalf of anyone other than myself. I would be happy to share the proposal with the group for their review and they can take what they agree with and modify or change what they don't agree with and submit it as well if they would like.



Steve Taylor
Taylor Inspection Services, Inc.
Atlantic Beach Florida 32233
904-247-6700
www.taylorinspectionservices.com
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  #70  
Old 4/27/13, 3:21 PM
Steve Taylor, CMI Steve Taylor, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Recall Check will not be permitted in Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmurray4 View Post
Steve, Peace. I want what's best for the industry.

Russel, that is a good question. Getting Florida HI's to unite and focus has been like herding cats. I would suggest that a do able list of goals would be smart. Starting with getting some HI input on the formation of the SOP.
Maybe a written reaction, comments, and possible changes to the published draft.
Unfortunately, DBPR has no intention or plans of making any changes to the draft rules. While do not speak for DBPR, I believe that they intend to adopt the rule as written, and then may "take a look" at the language AFTER the rule has been adopted. This position is totally unacceptable to me.



Steve Taylor
Taylor Inspection Services, Inc.
Atlantic Beach Florida 32233
904-247-6700
www.taylorinspectionservices.com

Last edited by staylor7; 4/27/13 at 3:23 PM.. Reason: spelling
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  #71  
Old 4/27/13, 3:29 PM
Mike O'Handley Mike O'Handley is offline
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Default Re: Recall Check will not be permitted in Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by nthornberry View Post
Funny you should say that. The typical price for an inspection used to be around $100...

Inspection pricing went up drastically as the standards for inspection and equipment utilized improved for two decades.

Take it to the next level, reap the rewards. It's funny how you always hear inspectors say things like "we should all charge more" but you hardly ever hear them ask "how can we improve inspections?" At least we don't hear too much of that anymore.

That first group of inspectors the likes of Alan Carson set us up well. What we do with it from here is up to us!
When I first got into this gig in 1996, the average price of inspections in the Seattle market was about $275.; by 2000 it was up to $300 and that's where it has stayed if you listen to the realtorzoids and read their pithy articles. The fact is that the average price for an inspection in our area has been about $400 since about 2003 yet the 'zoids still tell people to expect to pay about $300.

Sometimes I think it's a 'zoid tactic. If caller calls an experienced inspector and hears a price well over $300, and is expecting an inspection to cost $300 because the caller has no idea what an inspection should cost and is relying on the 'zoid's word, the caller hangs up and shops around looking for someone to do the job for $300 or less. That's when the caller ends up hiring an inexperienced inspector who still hasn't figured out how to structure his fees so that he can pay his bills.

I see a distinct difference in types or realtors and how they refer their clients. The non-manipulative types who never try to interfere with the inspection process or skew the results to favor their sales, just tell the client to call and pay whatever the fee is; clients of those 'zoids who typically try to control the inspection process and are a constant pain in the keester often say something like, "I don't understand why the fee is so high. My realtor, so-and-so, says that I shouldn't be paying any more than (low ball price) for an inspection."

The internet and the licensing process has made the zoids more and more irrelevant. As time goes on, the number of 'zoid-educated callers has dropped off and they've been replaced by tech-savvy folks who have used the net to educate themselves about some of the ethical envelope-pushing that goes on in the business and why they should avoid low-ballers. For me, these types of callers now outnumber the price shoppers and the number of 'zoids I encounter now is a fraction of what it used to be. I really think that incorporating our C.O.E. into the licensing law had something to do with that.

Mike O'Handley
Kenmore, Washington
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  #72  
Old 4/27/13, 3:32 PM
Michael J. Meeker, CMI's Avatar
Michael J. Meeker, CMI Michael J. Meeker, CMI is online now
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Default Re: Recall Check will not be permitted in Florida

Thats it you cowards take your stuff under cover of darkness. i AM sure thst will gain you lots of respect. Stop f u c k i n g with others and maybe they will leave you alone. ever thought of that?



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  #73  
Old 4/27/13, 6:26 PM
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Joseph Burkeson, CMI Joseph Burkeson, CMI is online now
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Default Re: Recall Check will not be permitted in Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhensel View Post
Come on guys..it's not about the f'ing wind mits. Stay on message and focus.

This bickering is what it always results in, lets stop it. Stay on point...

So Steven. What is an inspector to do to hear your ideas?

I have a message board that is private that we can restrict people and no me can view, would that help?
Restrict all you want... there is already a mole in your organization, hell it might even be you.

Licensing solves nothing ~ James Bushart.




Let us never forget... Hillary Clinton won the Popular Vote.


Certified Master Inspector - 2010
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  #74  
Old 4/27/13, 6:29 PM
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John Shishilla John Shishilla is offline
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Default Re: Recall Check will not be permitted in Florida

It is where some go when they want a mature adult only conversation.



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  #75  
Old 4/27/13, 6:40 PM
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Joseph Burkeson, CMI Joseph Burkeson, CMI is online now
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Default Re: Recall Check will not be permitted in Florida

It's as if was able to reach into the future and touch the chaos. Probability suggests it will end badly for the licensing Luddites who eagerly dug the hole we now find ourselves in... Thankfully I have a plan.

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Licensing Solves Nothing ~ James Bushart



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