Shingle over shingle roof over

Haven’t had one of these in a while…what is the latest consensus for FBC on the 1802?

(Permit on file)

The 1802 doesn’t ask for how many layers.

The form ask for “Year of Original Installation or Replacement”

ROOF RECOVER. The process of installing an additional roof covering over a prepared existing roof covering without removing the existing roof covering.

ROOF REPLACEMENT. The process of removing the existing roof covering, repairing any damaged substrate and installing a new roof covering.

OR…it asks for the permit application date.

My point exactly…friggin form is open to all kinds of interpretations.

You report, they decide.

List the permit and or the Product approval number. Comment on it and you are done.

The requirements for a properly installed roof-over are next to impossible to comply with. Essentially, it would only work if you were recovering over a new roof covering.

You can’t recover an existing roof covering unless the existing roof covering is complaint with the Florida Building Code for wind resistance, roof deck uplift, and no damage or deterioration exists. Then the existing roof covering must comply with several different standards and the new roof covering manufacturer must have specific installation instructions for applying over an existing roof covering. Then there’s always the secondary water barrier, required by the FBC.

My thoughts exactly, just chiming in to see if there are any new changes.

Thanks

Wouldn’t the first roof comply with the code as a secondary water resistance barrier? :mrgreen:

The only time I have seen this scenario play out, where I could, in good consciousness, give credit, was a roof that was redone in 2004. The current owners bought the home in 2006 and didn’t like the color of the shingles. They recovered it with permits and affidavits, in a different color.

For a shingle roof, the second layer is independent of the first layer and does not depend on it for uplift considerations. As long as there is no deck damage, and the starter strip, drip edge and shingle nailing is per manufacture’s recommendations for the appropriate wind zone, it qualifies for FBC credit on the 1802 (with valid permit). Other roof coverings that depend on the original roofing for support, do not qualify for re-cover. This is a spelled out in the FBC Existing Building.

The FBC has made allowances for the recovering of existing roof coverings if you can meet all of the requirements and attain approval. Fat chance. I have yet to inspect a recover that qualified, the first hiccup is usually the approval, the second is an adequate base. Yes, I have also been told by a “manufacturer” that it could be done, they walked it back when I asked for their approval for doing so.

As for uplift, if the base isn’t adequate it makes no difference what the new roof covering is rated for….it will potentially fail.

If the existing roof covering is to be part of the underlayment or secondary water barrier for the new roof covering as has been suggested, then it must meet all the requirements of a new roof covering underlayment/SWB. Good luck with that one. As stated above, the FBC “has made allowances for” the recovering of an existing roof covering. This in no way means it is “approved” or has meet the requirements for testing.

708.1 General.
Materials and methods of application used for recovering or replacing an existing roof covering shall comply with the requirements of Chapter 15 of the Florida Building Code, Building or Chapter 9 of the Florida Building Code, Residential. Roof repairs to existing roofs and roof coverings shall comply with the provisions of this code.

Exception: Reroofing shall not be required to meet the minimum design slope requirement of 1/4:12 in Section 1507 of the Florida Building Code, Building for roofs that provide positive roof drainage (high-velocity hurricane zones shall comply with Sections 1515.2.2.1 and 1516.2.4 of the Florida Building Code, Building).

**708.1.1 **
Not more than 25 percent of the total roof area or roof section of any existing building or structure shall be repaired, replaced or recovered in any 12-month period unless the entire roofing system or roof section conforms to requirements of this code.

**R903.1 General. **
Roof decks shall be covered with approved roof coverings secured to the building or structure in accordance with the provisions of this chapter. Roof assemblies shall be designed and installed in accordance with this code and the approved manufacturer’s installation instructions such that the roof assembly shall serve to protect the building or structure.

R904.2 Compatibility of materials.
Roof assemblies shall be of materials that are compatible with each other and with the building or structure to which the materials are applied.
**
R904.3 Material specifications and physical characteristics.**
Roof covering materials shall conform to the applicable standards listed in this chapter. In the absence of applicable standards or where materials are of questionable suitability, testing by an approved testing agency shall be required by the building official to determine the character, quality and limitations of application of the materials.

**R907.3 Recovering versus replacement. **
New roof coverings shall not be installed without first removing all existing layers of roof coverings where any of the following conditions occur:

  1. Where the existing roof or roof covering is watersoaked or has deteriorated to the point that the existing roof or roof covering is not adequate as a base for additional roofing.

  2. Where the existing roof is to be used for attachment for a new roof system and compliance with the securement provisions of Section R905 cannot be met.

As a professional licensed Home Inspector you are there to protect your client, the home owner. They need to know if the roof covering is complaint. If you are unwilling or unable to make this determination with a simple visual inspection, at least give them a fighting chance and tell them what you need information and document wise. Simply checking a box and running to the bank with your check isn’t right, or ethical (not that it’s what you are doing). People’s lives, and the lives of their families, depend on the information you are providing. Do the right thing……

The definitions Bill gave you earlier are correct and straight from the FBC. The OIR-B1 1802 only recognizes original and replacement roof coverings. The form was commissioned by the Financial Services Commission and developed with empirical insurance data (damage data), construction, and building code representatives. The form was adopted by rule of law in the same manner as the FBC. Any changes, interpretations, or addendums would need to come from the same source, the Financial Services Commission (addendums to the form) OR Florida Building Commission (building code interpretations) only.

Don’t have the wool pulled over your eyes by individuals stating they get their information “from the big dogs” (insurers). Typically, you can replace the realty agent with the insurance agent when it comes to these statements. Insurers have no business influencing the forms completion by inspectors, it’s a clear conflict of interest. You are there to provide the home owner with information on when/where their home may need or require hardening through approved mitigation techniques. It’s what your licensure requires you to be trained in…not rate variables, deductibles, premium discounts, or rate reductions. If this continues, the completion of the form strictly based on the presence of a permit, inspectors will become obsolete and we will lose the form.

As for the permit? It means diddly squat! A permit does not signify compliance, only that the work may proceed.

Incorrect!

**708.1 General. **
Materials and methods of application used for recovering or replacing an existing roof covering shall comply with the requirements of Chapter 15 of the Florida Building Code, Building or Chapter 9 of the Florida Building Code, Residential. Roof repairs to existing roofs and roof coverings shall comply with the provisions of this code.

R903.1 General.
Roof decks shall be covered with approved roof coverings secured to the building or structure in accordance with the provisions of this chapter. Roof assemblies shall be designed and installed in accordance with this code and the approved manufacturer’s installation instructions such that the roof assembly shall serve to protect the building or structure.