We have been booking Wind Mitigation Inspections on homes built in 2012. Insurance companies are telling clients they will not receive credits without an inspection. We have asked the clients to double check as we dont want to charge them for an inspection not needed and the insurance companies are insisting.
Don’t get me wrong, but not all GC’s perform a top quality job, not all, but some AHJ inspectors know the GCs and will pass a house without even looking at it. This was caught on video in I believe in Fort Pierce a few months ago.That is why we are here to give an unabiased opion about the property. It only helps the home inspection industry gain more respect with insurance providers…GC’s inspecting GC’s is “IMO” wrong.
I inspected a home built in Santa Rosa County in 2010, a few months ago. I noted that 1 ¼ inch crown staples, 6 inches in the field, were used to attach the OSB decking to the trusses and questioned the county building inspectors about it. I found that, according to the county inspection office, the 2010 FBC allows stapled roof decking if the engineer or architect states specifically in the plans that they can be used . It opened a real can of worms and I just told the buyer that that any future wind mit would show the lower rating for the roof /deck attachment. Seems like the state is moving backwards on this one. There is no way that anyone can convince me that a crown staple is as adequate as a 8-D nail. This may be one reason that insurers are now looking at newer homes to verify compliance with the higher rating that was once accepted without question.
1 Like
This concept is an employment program for out of work contractors doing the $50 wind mit inspections. It also gives them the opportunity to upsell shutters and anything else they can get the consumer to bite on while there are there. Lots of money to be made and the $50 guys doing all the inspections should send Christmas cards to the insurance industry.
On a more or less serious note; as a home built in 2012 is not code required to be constructed with a hip roof geometry, the insurance industry is not obligated or required to give hip roof credit. Also, a home with a flat root could be constructed in 2012 and still be code compliant. So, there may in fact be additional discounts available to a home owner purchasing a home constructed post Florida Building Code that the insurance industry is not obligated to give to the homeowner without first have a wind mitigation inspection by some so called “licensed professional” as enumerated in F.S 627.711. Of course, the inspector does not have to be “licensed” as noted above if he is employed by a contractor or engineer.
http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?24621-Staples-v-8d-Common-Nails-for-Sheathing
anyone ever try to take apart a pallet that was put together with staples. Bring a lunch and something to sit on because you are going to be there for a while.
this debate has raged for years and will likely continue, kinda like which is the “best” HI software, or which is the best camera, ladder, etc. Opinions are like…
Same thing goes for removing wirelath that is stapled on verses nailed on. The morons that run things decided nails was a better method of attachment after Andrew and I can tell you from personal experience it is NOT.
When it is nailed on you just grab one end with pliers and pull. It goes pop,pop,pop,pop,pop.
Until it falls off.
Stapled on lath is a real b i t c h to remove and that is a fact. :roll:
8d nails have 2.4 times the pull out capacity of 6d nails and around 5 times the capacity of staples depending on staple size/length. staple are better on wire lath because they wrap over the lath where nails don’t — It is the application that makes the staples bette than nails on lath, not the pull out strength
Staples can have a great uplift than nails, some staples have a greater surface area. The issue with staples(much like nails) is over driving or missing the truss. In the years that staples were used prevalently they were not done properly, resulting in poor attachment of the decking. Statically a stapled deck is more likely to fail, hence the lack of a discount.
If one can read between the bitterness this post sums it up. Unfortunately more than half the post is filled with anger.
Then why is question 1. even on the form? If they are not going to give every discount based on the building code, why ask what year the home was built? Every home built after 1994 in the hurricane zone and 2001 in the non-hurricane zone shold automatically get all the discounts available. This is yet another case where the insurance companies are writing and enforcing the building code.
Really the only thing that a 2012 home has that is guarenteed is 8d Nails 6/6. An inspection is still necessary to determine:
-Roof Geometry - Hip & Gable are both “Code”
-Roof to Wall Attachment- clip/single or double wrap are all “Code” with differing levels of discounts.
- Secondary Water Resistance - SWR is not required by “Code”
Also – Many Homeowners change out their front doors for custom doors that are not impact rated - jussa saying ----- Verify - Verify - Verify $$$$$ Yay
1 Like
Some will call it anger. Others will call it painful truth.
Well they could not get the hip roof credit automatically for one, also I meant the whole contractor comments. It just discredits the entire comment and that is a shame because he did make a good point.
I agree with you about that. There are many good contractors, but it is always the one bad apple that spoils the bunch.
Mr Halstead, my intentions were in no way meant to discredit your post about insurance companies requiring inspections on new properties being built in this state. I am in no way infering that you are a shotty or unscrupulious contractor. That was not my intention. My points are that there are some GCs that do poor quality work and we will see more of this as long as the economy is poor. There are also those who think they can manipulate the system at hand to fit there own needs.The ALL MIGHTY dollar is all that is important. Having said that, there are those in high power positions that will take advantage of this and the property buyer will pay the penalty in higher insurance rates and home repairs if we as home inspectors are not involved in the process to eliminate some of this problem. I agree insurance companies have no right in making or initiating code or requirements for the contractor or the building industry. This should be done on the state or county level .The only voice that can be or is unabiased in the building and construction industry is the HOME AND COMMERCIAL PROPERTY INSPECTOR. Can we honestly make a difference . Only if our associations that we are involved in help set the standards.
I was not talking about your post but Mr. Taylor’s. For me personally I could care less and if we ever meet I will speak more about it. If you dont know I am an inspector not a contractor. Contracting gave me great tools to be an inspector but thats as far as the discussion goes here. Where I care about the statements made just bashing contractors in a discussion where it has no place is it only harms the image of us inspectors in the eyes of the public and others. Personally I dont want others making the profession look bad by foolish comments.
I do hope to meet you some day and I am for the inspection industry, altho I do have the qualifications to be a GC I choose not to . My apologies for misreading the thread.
All the best
Then why have a building code at all? Let’s just ask the insurance companies what they want. You know, like a plumbing, roof, electric, and heat/ac inspection…then some sort of half-*** certification of a roof asking how long it is going to last…oh wait… :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Again, your perception of my statements as “bashing” contractors is my perception of facts. It is a fact that in a post home inspector licensing environment, approximately 2/3rds of all home inspector licenses were sold by DPBR to contractors under the grandfathering provision. If I am not mistake, DBPR actually sent out letters to licensed contractors encouraging them to “buy” a home inspector license under the temporary grandfathering provision in an effort to generate revenue for the home inspector licensing unit. If I am not mistaken, the vast majority of these newly licensed home inspectors (aka contractors) have never actually done a home inspection- yet they are licensed home inspectors- just like you and I. I believe that it is also a fact that as a result of the downturn in the market, many out of work contractors have moved into the home inspection profession (that includes wind mitigation inspections) in an effort to survive (that is understandable). I would also agree with you that our image is being harmed in the eyes of the public- just not by me when merely stating facts. Besides, isn’t that what we professional inspectors do?- state the facts and call it the way we see it. I am sorry if you took offense but don’t expect me to apologize for stating facts and calling it the way I see it.
Apologize to all for the thread drift.
Unfortunately we still have code enforcement issues in Florida, made worse by the loss of inspection staff due to the housing bubble and resulting bad economy.
I code is developed by ICC building inspector and officials. The insurance companies can influence stronger construction but really have no direct control over the code. What they have found is that the code is not the problem, poor enforcement, unpermitted roofs, and unpermitted structural work prevails. In addition some jurisdictions just choose to overlook the parts of the code they think are excessive.
The insurance industry is smart, they now know you get what you inspect, not what you expect. There is an automatic discount for homes built to the 2001 FBC or newer, while many carriers also include a credit for an SFBC-94 code built home, they are not required to. The only credits not included in the automatic credit are:
Roof geometry, roof covering unless it is original, opening protection, and SWR.