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  #1  
Old 4/21/15, 12:51 PM
Richard Haynes Richard Haynes is offline
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Default WM/4 point Declaratory Statement

Declaratory Statement request asks if the Home Inspector Standards of Practice apply to Wind Mitigation and 4 Point Inspections performed outside the scope of Home Inspections.

Response published 4/3/2015.

Notice of Declaratory Statement

DEPARTMENT OF BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONAL REGULATION
RULE NOS.: RULE TITLES:
61-30.801 Standards of Practice, General
61-30.802 Standards of Practice, Structure
61-30.803 Standards of Practice, Electrical Systems
61-30.804 Standards of Practice, HVAC Systems
61-30.805 Standards of Practice, Roof Covering
61-30.806 Standards of Practice, Plumbing System
61-30.807 Standards of Practice, Interior Components
61-30.808 Standards of Practice, Fireplaces and Solid Fuel Burning Appliances
61-30.809 Standards of Practice, Household Appliances
61-30.810 Standards of Practice, Exterior Components
61-30.811 Standards of Practice, Site Conditions that Affect the Structure

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that the Department of Business and Professional Regulation has declined to rule on the petition for declaratory statement filed by Jon D. Tremper on December 11, 2014. The following is a summary of the agency’s declination of the petition:
The petition fails to identify a particular set of circumstances about which a declaratory statement can be issued or how the petitioner is substantially affected. Moreover, the Department declines to issue a statement of general applicability or to initiate rulemaking.



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  #2  
Old 4/21/15, 1:30 PM
Robert R. Sheppard Robert R. Sheppard is offline
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Default Re: WM/4 point Declaratory Statement

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  #3  
Old 4/21/15, 1:35 PM
Robert R. Sheppard Robert R. Sheppard is offline
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Default Re: WM/4 point Declaratory Statement

Gee, I wonder what this means?

"The petition fails to identify a particular set of circumstances about which a declaratory statement can be issued or how the petitioner is substantially affected. Moreover, the Department declines to issue a statement of general applicability or to initiate rulemaking."

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  #4  
Old 4/21/15, 1:43 PM
Steve Taylor, CMI Steve Taylor, CMI is online now
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Default Re: WM/4 point Declaratory Statement

Shocking.



Steve Taylor
Taylor Inspection Services, Inc.
Atlantic Beach Florida 32233
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  #5  
Old 4/21/15, 1:58 PM
Joseph Burkeson, CMI's Avatar
Joseph Burkeson, CMI Joseph Burkeson, CMI is online now
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Default Re: WM/4 point Declaratory Statement

What is the downside?



As for me and my family... We've sworn to never vote for another white man as long as there is a viable woman or minority candidate, I suggest you take the same pledge.


Certified Master Inspector - 2010
Florida Licensed Home Inspector - HI176
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  #6  
Old 4/21/15, 2:33 PM
Michael J. Meeker, CMI's Avatar
Michael J. Meeker, CMI Michael J. Meeker, CMI is online now
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Default Re: WM/4 point Declaratory Statement

Ah hahahahah hhhaa hahah Someone actually tried again to get a answer.




GIVE UP. THEY THE GOV DOES NOT GIVE A CRAP and surely will not make a decision therefore putting the decision on them.



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  #7  
Old 4/22/15, 6:16 PM
Robert R. Sheppard Robert R. Sheppard is offline
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Default Re: WM/4 point Declaratory Statement

They got their answer, and it wasn't the one they wanted. Declaratory Statements require the petitioner to show how they would be substantially affected for the request. In this case, the petitioner asked for a declarative statement stating that the standards of practice for home inspectors do not apply to insurance inspections and that the petitioner would be substantially affected if they did.....

They ruled against his request as the petitioner failed to show how he would be substantially affected by the standards of his license applying to insurance inspections....



...drink that in.
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  #8  
Old 4/29/15, 3:22 PM
Richard Haynes Richard Haynes is offline
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Default Re: WM/4 point Declaratory Statement

I understand the request was made because of a Home Inspector in south Florida was sued because of a Mitigation Inspection. I don't know anything about the case, it was settled out of court and everything was sealed/not available.

To me it did not matter which way DBPR decided.

DBPR says Wind Mit/4 point inspections that Home Inspectors SOP apply.
OK, the SOP says inspectors can add or exclude items if agreed to by the inspector and client. Do these inspections how you say you will do them.

DBPR says Wind Mit/4 point inspections that Home Inspectors SOP do not apply.
OK, so now do these inspections according to whatever you said you would do in your pre-inspection agreement/ contract.

About a month ago I called and spoke to OIR's lawyer. This was after talking to a few people at OIR. My questions to these people were; I have a few questions about the 1802 form and wanted answers on how to do something.

The answer from OIR's lawyer was; we do not have the technical expertise to answer any questions on how the 1802 form should be completed. Great.
This would be something to put in your pre-inspection agreement/contract that the agency that put out a technical form with no instructions on how to complete the form other than the form itself and would not provide any answers to questions about the form.

This is important because of the different information put out by course providers on how to complete the form. My thinking is if the information does not come from OIR then its not valid and you can use whatever interpretation you want to complete the form.

There are people/course providers putting out good information on how to complete the form. But this is just their interpretation on how to do something.

Good legal review is needed on Wind Mit and 4 point pre-inspection agreements /contracts.

Some time ago I started following the Required Formal Review of an agency's rules/forms every 2 years.
The agency must among other things clarify and simplify its rules and file a report with Senate/House and Administrative Procedures Committee that they have complied.

There was an exemption the last time this was required.

This year the Formal Review is required by October 1.

Will they comply or get other exemption?


Richard Haynes
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  #9  
Old 4/29/15, 4:04 PM
Roy Lewis, CMI's Avatar
Roy Lewis, CMI Roy Lewis, CMI is online now
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Default Re: WM/4 point Declaratory Statement

most home inspectors don't make jack s*** on wind mits so why should we care?




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  #10  
Old 4/29/15, 4:13 PM
Robert R. Sheppard Robert R. Sheppard is offline
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Default Re: WM/4 point Declaratory Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhaynes View Post
I understand the request was made because of a Home Inspector in south Florida was sued because of a Mitigation Inspection. I don't know anything about the case, it was settled out of court and everything was sealed/not available.

To me it did not matter which way DBPR decided.

DBPR says Wind Mit/4 point inspections that Home Inspectors SOP apply.
OK, the SOP says inspectors can add or exclude items if agreed to by the inspector and client. Do these inspections how you say you will do them.

DBPR says Wind Mit/4 point inspections that Home Inspectors SOP do not apply.
OK, so now do these inspections according to whatever you said you would do in your pre-inspection agreement/ contract.

About a month ago I called and spoke to OIR's lawyer. This was after talking to a few people at OIR. My questions to these people were; I have a few questions about the 1802 form and wanted answers on how to do something.

The answer from OIR's lawyer was; we do not have the technical expertise to answer any questions on how the 1802 form should be completed. Great.
This would be something to put in your pre-inspection agreement/contract that the agency that put out a technical form with no instructions on how to complete the form other than the form itself and would not provide any answers to questions about the form.

This is important because of the different information put out by course providers on how to complete the form. My thinking is if the information does not come from OIR then its not valid and you can use whatever interpretation you want to complete the form.

There are people/course providers putting out good information on how to complete the form. But this is just their interpretation on how to do something.

Good legal review is needed on Wind Mit and 4 point pre-inspection agreements /contracts.

Some time ago I started following the Required Formal Review of an agency's rules/forms every 2 years.
The agency must among other things clarify and simplify its rules and file a report with Senate/House and Administrative Procedures Committee that they have complied.

There was an exemption the last time this was required.

This year the Formal Review is required by October 1.

Will they comply or get other exemption?


Richard Haynes

Or, you could simplify the whole process and just follow your standards and let the chips fall where they may. There are some in the industry who are telling you point blank that your standards apply, they are telling you this first hand as they are actively involved in suing other inspectors who do not perform according to their standards.

I always tend to listen to the guy who might be sitting across from me in court....call me crazy

Specifically, what is so bad about the state standards that applying them to insurance inspections would be so darn difficult?
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  #11  
Old 4/29/15, 5:28 PM
Bradley K. Toye, CMI's Avatar
Bradley K. Toye, CMI Bradley K. Toye, CMI is online now
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Default Re: WM/4 point Declaratory Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert R. Sheppard View Post
Or, you could simplify the whole process and just follow your standards and let the chips fall where they may. There are some in the industry who are telling you point blank that your standards apply, they are telling you this first hand as they are actively involved in suing other inspectors who do not perform according to their standards.

I always tend to listen to the guy who might be sitting across from me in court....call me crazy

Specifically, what is so bad about the state standards that applying them to insurance inspections would be so darn difficult?
Can you please lay out exactly how you would apply the HI-SOP to stand alone insurance inspections? Inquiring minds would like to know what your routine would be.



Brad K Toye
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  #12  
Old 4/29/15, 5:41 PM
Roy Lewis, CMI's Avatar
Roy Lewis, CMI Roy Lewis, CMI is online now
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Default Re: WM/4 point Declaratory Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by btoye View Post
Can you please lay out exactly how you would apply the HI-SOP to stand alone insurance inspections? Inquiring minds would like to know what your routine would be.
Brad! It can't be done.it's a whole new ballgame.




InterNACHI Lifetime Member.
www.1stproinspection.com
roy@1stproinspection.com
Serving Gainesville Florida and surrounding areas.
Florida Certified Contractor #CRC1328001
Florida Certified Home Inspector #HI7019
Deus solus me iudicare potest
#1st Pro Inspection
Well! They may have degrees, but that is not an indicator of common sense or right thinking...M. Larson circa 9-27-2018.
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  #13  
Old 4/29/15, 5:43 PM
Humberto Carvajal, HI884's Avatar
Humberto Carvajal, HI884 Humberto Carvajal, HI884 is offline
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Default Re: WM/4 point Declaratory Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by btoye View Post
Can you please lay out exactly how you would apply the HI-SOP to stand alone insurance inspections? Inquiring minds would like to know what your routine would be.
Wait on it...some people are great presenters of "issues"..just not so great at presenting "solutions".


Bert



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  #14  
Old 4/29/15, 7:56 PM
Marc A. Goldenberg's Avatar
Marc A. Goldenberg Marc A. Goldenberg is offline
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Default Re: WM/4 point Declaratory Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by btoye View Post
Can you please lay out exactly how you would apply the HI-SOP to stand alone insurance inspections? Inquiring minds would like to know what your routine would be.
Brad are you looking to get a 17 page reply.
Rob's still typing.



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  #15  
Old 4/29/15, 8:00 PM
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Wayne Collier, HI5099 Wayne Collier, HI5099 is offline
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Default Re: WM/4 point Declaratory Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoldenberg View Post
Brad are you looking to get a 17 page reply.
Rob's still typing.
You mean copy and paste?
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